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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    It was a bag space lost IIRC, cost a lot of gold and often gimped dps if you weren't able to get the best ammo, hunter was my main until end of wrath, although the term punished is a bit ott, it certainly felt like playing a hunter had an unneccassary drawback, but it wasn't the only class to have such things. (the infinite ammo analogy doesnt work though :P)
    To be fair, Hunters could easily solo many of the old world elites, as well as having the best kiting and reset aggro skills, with rogues a distant second having no kiting abilities

    Trying to solo elites as a warrior back was extremely hard compared to a hunter

    Quote Originally Posted by Turmoill View Post
    Centering AH, mail, etc. to a single part of city and leaving the rest empty and lifeless?
    I don't know, Blizzard managed to do this when they made SW and Org the 'portal hub' which led to the other 4 cities being totally abandoned

    Double standards I guess

  2. #242
    The Lightbringer Calzaeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Kopervik, Norway
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post
    So, after some recent discussion, it would seem convenience is destroying immersion. So, I would suggest putting immersion back in the game. Just so we are clear, this is my personal opinion. I speak for no one other than myself, and do NOT believe this will ever be seen by Blizz since this is not their official forum. With that in mind, here are some conveniences which need to be removed in order to improve immersion and bring back the RPG feel to the game:

    1. Hunters will now be asked to give up a bag slot in exchange for a quiver or ammo pouch.
    2. Ammunition will make its return.
    3. Ranged weapons will once again need to be ranged. a 10 yard dead zone will be re-implemented.
    4. Weapon and unarmed skills will need to be raised separately once more.
    5. Hunter and Battle Pets will need to be fed to keep them happy and to prevent them from running away.
    6. Attunements and Keys will be added back into Heroics. If you do not have a key, or a party member with one, you are out of luck.
    7. Simple Wood and Flint & Tinder are once again needed to make fire.
    8. Spell reagents will be re-implemented
    9. Flight will be removed from Azeroth but remain in the newer territories to provide more old world immersion
    10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
    11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.
    12. Low level dungeons will get patrols once more who will respawn and can come up behind players without warning
    13. Guild perks will be removed
    14. Mining, Skinning, and Herbing all have a chance to fail when trying and will once again only give 1 item at a time up to a total of 3.
    15. All extra Auction Houses, Mailboxes, and Banks will be removed from Stormwind and Orgrimmar bringing them back to 1 each.
    16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
    17. Paladins, Warlocks, Druids, and Shaman no longer get special animals and mounts automatically. There is once again a quest chain to accomplish these means.
    18. Druids will be reduced to 3 specs which will once again combine Guardian and Feral into the original Cat/Bear combo.
    19. Each class Pet will again require a quest to complete in order to learn how to summon their pet.
    20. Training is no longer automatic. You must once again visit your class trainer.
    21. Pet trainers will be included in the afore mentioned.
    22. Dual specs will be removed as you can only really play one spec at a time.
    23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class
    24. Rogues will again be making poisons and applying them as they learn them.
    25. Paladins will be removed from the Horde as Shaman will be removed from the Alliance. Too much class/faction homogenization.

    Please feel free to add to this list. I'm sure there are plenty of immersive type items I am missing.

    *Also, don't take this list too seriously. It was all in good fun. Mostly a farce to show how much things have improved.
    I was about to rage at you, until I saw the underlined part :P Good one, mate!

    26. Warlocks will again risk wiping the raid with their cooldowns.
    27. Paladins will again mostly auto-attack while below lv40.
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  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by bajskorv View Post
    That would do the opposite. Can you not pull the trigger if you put your gun to someone's head? And haven't you been watching Legolas shooting orcs with his bow at point blank range? If immersion is the goal they should change it so hit chance decreases the further away from the target you are.
    Expected Bohemian Rhapsody here, did not get it. Disappointing.
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  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by melodramocracy View Post
    The better question is why do you think you're being 'punished' via this relatively simple mechanism? Do you play FPS games and bitch about not having infinite ammo?

    On second thought, don't answer that.
    It's fairly obvious I'd think.

    Take a hunter and any other class in the game - both of them encounter the same loot demands and bag limitations that are a known issue - namely that there's not enough bag space for all of the shit we have to keep around between vanity items, gear sets, weapons, consumables and the like - so now you take ALL of that and ask hunters to sack an entire bag's worth of space to have ammunition...then you ask that person to go needlessly buy it from a vendor - what riveting gameplay does that add? None.

    So I'm not sure how you don't see it as a punishment - guess you're just one of those types who refuse to evolve.

    My point here is that not a one of you can really explain an instance of how any of these removed features make you feel more like you're "part of the world" of Warcraft - how does having to go do some chores like buying ammo (right clicking and typing a number) make you feel more immersed? I can't see how that is - things like character involvement in the world and the plot are immersive - not chores like buying consumables every time you want to do something or having one bag slot less than everyone else just to cement the reality of your character class - I mean, come on - I don't think any of those things really add gameplay or make the game more fun or inward.

    I mean let's look at a better example - the dead zone - how does that immerse you any more in the world of the game? I mean, if you're looking to feel more engaged - you'd expect the world to behave at least a little bit like the real one and that would mean you can shoot someone right in the face with the barrel against their skin...the dead zone runs contrary to that and thus doesn't really make me feel immersed?

    I'm waiting for a really good example of how any of the things they removed made the game more immersive because most of the people who say the game now lacks immersion say it's because of the removal of things from the earlier release of the game, not from Blizzard simply failing to add specific features to expansions.
    Last edited by Olrox; 2013-12-25 at 03:02 PM.
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  5. #245
    This goes against the esport genre of the game. WoW is not a classical MMORPG but a tightly tuned and balanced multiplayer game that wants to challenge the player and not the character.
    "It is arrogant for one to reject change because it is undesirable. Rejection of change is the rejection of possibilities."
    — Harald Hoerwick —

  6. #246
    What happens to the millions of Alliance Shaman and Horde Paladins exactly?

    There's also too much crap to collect for reagents. Mages have 3 different kinds, rogues even more with different types of poisons, many buffs required reagents for the 1 hour version of their buff.

  7. #247
    Mechagnome tumppu's Avatar
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    May 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Superman-BladesEdge View Post

    16. Warlocks will now farm shards once more to provide a power base for certain spells.
    If I would have to pick just one of those, which I will NEVER EVER want back, that would be it.
    "It's just like I always said! You can do battle with strength, you can do battle with wits, but no weapon can beat a great pair of tits!"

  8. #248
    Pit Lord Lora's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Some random weird place
    The game is moving forward, not backwards. None of those changes would make the immersion better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uggorthaholy View Post
    Thanks but no thanks, Lora, for making me question everything in existence forever.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Olrox View Post
    guess you're just one of those types who refuse to evolve.
    Or one of those types who doesn't equate simplification with evolution on a positive note across the board.
    "Look around you. We're all liars here, and every one of us is better than you" - PB

  10. #250
    The Attunement is great the rest just feels like a hazzle and i prefer the way it is now

  11. #251
    You know, I really hope people understand that immersion doesn't necessarily imply inconvenience.

    It's possible to have immersion and convenience if designed properly.

    However Blizzard's current "throw the baby out with the bath water" philosophy of just hacking off whatever is "inconvenient" is not it.

  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride
    However Blizzard's current "throw the baby out with the bath water" philosophy of just hacking off whatever is "inconvenient" is not it.
    I don't think the loss if uninteresting mechanics is bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrandir View Post
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  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by gamingmuscle View Post
    I don't think the loss if uninteresting mechanics is bad.
    "Immersion" isn't about mechanics, it's about flavor.

    They could have just fixed stuff up to be less annoying.

    e.g. Hunters and ammo.

    Take up bag space? Run out during raids?

    Hunters should have a quiver build into the character, capable of holding 1024 arrows - or whatever amount they typically use in a fight + margin of error.

    Ran out mid raid, have you pet go buy you some! Pet comes back in 6 secs.
    Last edited by SodiumChloride; 2013-12-25 at 05:54 PM.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Otaka View Post
    Cute. I'll give you that.

    Not that you're in any way correct. Just that you're cute.

  15. #255
    The Lightbringer Mojo Risin's Avatar
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    Feb 2010
    The only thing I agree with on this list is the point about flight on Azeroth.

    The rest is just convenience-features.

    Real immersion would be something completely different, with darker nights, more weather effects, inns and taverns with a purpose, more world content, and so on.
    '"Good morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it.'

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  16. #256
    From Miriam Webster:

    im·mer·sion noun \i-ˈmər-zhən, -shən\

    : the act of putting someone or something completely in a liquid or the state of being completely in a liquid
    : complete involvement in some activity or interest
    : a method of learning a foreign language by being taught entirely in that language

    Immersion in this situation isn't a property of the game. It's a property of the gamer. And since everybody is different, different players will require different and sometimes contradictory qualities in order to inspire "complete involvement".

    So Blizzard CAN'T put immersion back into the game because the game never had immersion to begin with.

    And after almost 10 years the audience has become so diverse there's really nothing left that they can do with the game. WoW is on a death spiral. And even I'm guilty of sometimes acusing "this" or "That" of killing it. But the fact is immersion becomes more and more difficult as you do the same things over and over again in slight variations (but our brains recognize patterns).

    So immersion is gone. Sorry.

  17. #257
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Immersion is gone because, somewhere along the line, the RPG part of the MMORPG disappeared. There's very little customization of your character, which, IMO, is the heart of RPGs - it brings you closer to the game, makes you feel invested. In truth, there's very little investment in characters at all anymore - you can pretty much get whatever you want without much effort. I find that I take more pride in things I work harder for.

    On the OP - You make a list of several items that were great minor changes to the game, but you lose my trust when you sprinkle in major changes that were NOT necessarily good. It seems you're trying to lump them all together, and they just don't fit that way.

  18. #258
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Inside Aggra's Womb.
    A lot of that really wasn't that immersive, but mostly annoying.

    I really do mean a lot though - there are some things I want to see back.

    10. Samantha Swifthoof will be returned to the path in Stranglethorn Vale
    - Hahahaha...oh memories. But what happened to her?

    23. Original talent trees will be implemented and everyone will once again be able to tweak their class
    - er...puzzled. How were the old talents more "immersive?"

    11. Certain quest mobs will be given their elite status back and will require a group to kill them.
    - This. Please give us back the Elites blizzard I miss being able to solo them (often with difficulty!) on my hunter. LOL.

    A lot of the stuff you listed was simply repetitive. If they implemented them with more lore and a real "feel" of making a difference then that would be great. But Attunments for HC dungeons? That would be seriously bad for the casual community. No way should it come back.
    Chickens are awesome.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycefli View Post
    But Attunments for HC dungeons? That would be seriously bad for the casual community. No way should it come back.
    Ugh... don't remind me... being forced to run pointless USELESS normals after exhausting them, over and over and OVER again just so I could get enough rep for a pass to heroics.

    Now I can get behind raid attunaments, since they were entertaining and made you do previous tier, which is necessary to get gear to advance anyway.
    Last edited by Turmoill; 2013-12-26 at 01:21 AM.
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  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by ACES View Post
    Convenience > Immersion. I'm playing a game, not living a second life. Maybe do this for RP servers.
    You do realize this is an MMORPG right? RP is right in the title of the genre of game you are playing.

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