Would Ulduar have been epic if LFR existed back in 2009?

[Creotor]

I don't think so. Any of the past raids wouldn't have had as much appeal as they did if they had LFR versions as well simply due to being so accessible. Exclusivity is a thing.

[Spicycurry]

There is something super unsatisfying about killing a boss before actually killing him

I havent been genuinely excited about a boss kill after heroic Rag

[purebalance]

Ulduar was only 'epic' because the raid only lasted 3 and a half months. People didn't have time to get sick of it before being shuffled off to TOC.

If they paced WOTLK out better, maybe Cata could have had more dev time and turned out better as a result of a more fleshed out end-game. Who knows.

Unlike the spoiled people today who say "Omg new raid is out but we didn't finish the last tier!!!!" people still raided Ulduar after they finished ToC for the week.

[Vongimi]

Normal raiders would progress through it normally and get to the end of atleast the easy modes by the time that LFR allowed you to go through the whole thing, much like what happens now. Yes, going through a raid exclusively on LFR does make it a bit less epic since you aren't really traveling through it like normal. I do miss that part of normal raiding

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There is something super unsatisfying about killing a boss before actually killing him

I havent been genuinely excited about a boss kill after heroic Rag

While I would agree partially, this is kinda ironic lol. You already killed normal Rag, isn't that still killing the boss before actually killing him?

[worstpvperus]

Of course they would, it would be nerfed to the ground. Considering how you can take bosses in SoO LFR with around 10 people that are doing well etc (a very, very rare occurance).

Not even that flame levi was a joke before nerfs. They would meet a wall at razorscale, ignis, and Xt(he might be doable for lfr he wasn't to hard just a bit over tuned) thou.

[Barnabas]

Yeah, but even with flex, I feel like the WoW raiding is lacking the spark you get from MOBAs for example. And thats why to stay competitive you have to replace that spark with other incentives like gear or achievs ... it's possible that that's the limit of MMORPG PvE. The only advantages I can imagine MMORPG PvE to have are story (which Blizzard fails at most of the time) and more than 50% win ratio. PvE is designed for the player to win ... PvP is not. Tough situation.

Kind of a waste of time to lure people that enjoy another genre of game just for the sake of making your's more appealing to them. It's always better to appreciate what you have and make their experience better than to pretend like you are something you are not. Sure maybe you got a box sale and $15 bucks out of them. Those players will end up going right back to whatever they enjoy playing the most. Kind of a lose lose situation in the long term. This is something I've seen happen IRL and once the core crowd leaves the people that group tried to lure eventually left also. They ended up with nothing in the end.

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Unlike the spoiled people today who say "Omg new raid is out but we didn't finish the last tier!!!!" people still raided Ulduar after they finished ToC for the week.

A mistake Blizzard didn't repeat after that afaik.

[bufferunderrun]

Lfr wouldnt pass 1.st boss

you don't remember peoples pugging 10man without doing hard mode in valor/heroic gear? I do

[Deleted]

Flex raid difficulty is probably pretty close to Normal in WOTLK.
We 1 shoted the first 3 bosses so it didn't feel epic, but hey we were about a month behind but we didn't care.

If you are a good player you shouldn't be running LFR . so it would not make any difference to you.
But maybe you need better gear to progress which makes you just average.

[Constraint]

No, raiders (y'know, people who raid) would have felt obliged to do it on LFR for a few weeks, burning out of the instance faster, ensuring no boss was an actual surprise/reward when you cleared up to it - definitive "no" from me.

[Darksoldierr]

As someone with Death's Demise title, having an LFR wouldn't have changed anything about how amazing Yogg 0 keeper fight was, one of the best fight i had a chance to do

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvUeG_2iWHk
Shameless link of the kill, EU-Twisting Nether conspiracy all the way!

[Krommm]

Yes and No. LFR would water it down some, but reg and heroic would of still been an amazing experience. It's not my favorite raid, but it was highly enjoyable.

[Talen]

Would SoO have been more epic if there were no LFR or Flex? Would Terrace or ToT?

Probably not; LFR is what makes it worthwhile for Blizzard to push that level of resources towards raiding. Would they have been as epic with half the budget?

EJL

[Daedelus]

It's shitty for those in competitive guilds who have to run the LFR's to get as much gear as possible before normal raids begin.

"have". No you don't have to. At all. If you really feel like you need to try for some gear you can run Flex, but really why are you even bothering unless you're going for world first? And if you are really serious raiders, you do alt runs on normal and funnel gear to your mains, not run LFR on the slim chance you get a trinket or tier piece.


On topic - this tier I took the decision to not run LFR. First of all, it's a horribly painful and slow process unless you do it with guildies, in which case you might as well run flex (which is what we did) but more importantly I didn't to experience the fights on EZ mode before clearing on normal.

The first moment after killing General Vezax and people ran in to Yogg's room, thus starting the encounter whilst we were still looting the previous boss would not have happened had we all run it on LFR first.

[Dreyen]

LFR does nothing to change the EPIC experience of Normal or Heroic Raids. I don't even see the connection.

It does, it trivializes experiencing the content. Do it completly on LFR once... then you've seen all the beauty, bosses, etc., done at the speed of light. All that remains in harder modes is more abilities to watch for, nothing new, outside of bosses like ra-den and hardmode garrosh

Plus, if you do the same raid over and over again and again, it loses its interest quickly, and lfr is quite a quick, grindish way, to experience the raid.

A raid or anything in the game, will feel more epic if you have to work your way to it. What's so epic about getting to yogg-saron if all you have to do is queue for lfr part 4 and endure a bit of LFR derpness?

[Deleted]

It does, it trivializes experiencing the content. Do it completly on LFR once... then you've seen all the beauty, bosses, etc., done at the speed of light. All that remains in harder modes is more abilities to watch for, nothing new, outside of bosses like ra-den and hardmode garrosh

Plus, if you do the same raid over and over again and again, it loses its interest quickly, and lfr is quite a quick, grindish way, to experience the raid.

A raid or anything in the game, will feel more epic if you have to work your way to it. What's so epic about getting to yogg-saron if all you have to do is queue for lfr part 4 and endure a bit of LFR derpness?

and why does the boss just having more abilities make it more epic when you kill it? they all die the same. they all have the same cutscene at the end.

[Clockwork Pinkie]

Yes,yes it would have been. Especially if you could activate hardmodes while in LFR.

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Yes and No. LFR would water it down some, but reg and heroic would of still been an amazing experience. It's not my favorite raid, but it was highly enjoyable.

There is no heroic, only hard modes, which could be activated in LFR if you think about it.

[Sparky_b]

Go tell your raid leader your refusing to pick up free gear because you like the story and challenge of WoW. See how well that goes down.

Go tell your raid leader to learn to play, because he sucks if he needs LFR to raid normals.

[Phasma]

No, because there were far more rewards for completing Ulduar without LFR. These rewards included: unique models for loot, experiencing the boss fights, and seeing the environment around the bosses as you progressed. It adds up to many rewards when you think about how many bosses there are and how big their loot tables are.

[Saishiro]

I was just wondering if the reason we haven't had any truly "epic" raids since Ulduar (this is of course my opinion) may have something to do with the fact that you can SEE (I'm just talking about seeing) the raid content with the click of a button. I know Heroic modes are hard, but you can still see the bosses and environments in LFR extremely easily. I only raid through LFR because all I want is to see the content, I don't care about loot, achievements, mounts or progression. Before LFR I had an incentive to raid properly, and raids did feel a million times more epic when not served on a silver platter right in front of me.

Of course you could just "not use LFR", but the fact that there is a way to see the content that easily removes the incentive for people like me to raid properly, and also removes the "Epic" feel of the raid.

This is not a LFR QQ thread, I was just wondering why there IMO haven't been any truly memorable raids since the introduction of LFR.

Do you think that Ulduar would still be epic back then if 80% of the playerbase had completed it and killed Yogg-Saron? If you could SEE the raid in a few hours with the click of a button and then rushing through it with strangers? It got me thinking.

You do realise that there were almost 10 additional raids released after Ulduar before LFR was added, right? If Ulduar indeed was the last epic raid i highly doubt LFR had anything to do with it.

[Laukkanen]

You say that like the appeal of exclusivity isn't a widely recognised thing
Finishing the Algalon quest in Dalaran made our guild feel pretty damn great at the time, not now when pretty much anyone can go and do it.

Algalon is 2 expansions away, why do you care whether its exclusive anymore?