2013: Fewest police deaths by firearms since 1887

[Mormolyce]

I couldn't find data for Australia poverty rate ( was absent from several data sites.) but violent crime is more closely linked with poverty than with gun ownership. Does Australia have a lower poverty rate than the US?

Plus has Aus ever had a "fuck tha police" mentality prevalent in a large number of it's youth?

Well I think gun ownership is neither here nor there because often gun crimes are committed by people who are not the legal owners of the guns.

The US certainly does have an unusually high child poverty rate compared to its peers (Australia isn't on this graph):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...s-ranked-34th/

It's really hard to find anything that can compare poverty rates between countries because they use different measures of poverty.

I think you'd be hard pressed to prove the "fuck da police" level in any country.

Actually, I think this article is the original source:

http://www.aifs.gov.au/institute/pubs/fm/fm54bb.pdf

So yeah make of that what you will. Depends a lot on the metric you use.

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The US serves as a military might for several countries. In return, we get economic benefits that offset the cost somewhat.

Naw, you don't get much back out of that. It's mostly for strategic reasons.

[NineSpine]

The US serves as a military might for several countries. In return, we get economic benefits that offset the cost somewhat.

Is that what you tell yourself? We get no economic benefits. In fact, it;s counterproductive, as it screws up our capacity for trade relations with countries that we have no good reason to be on bad terms with (half of south america, Iran, etc.)

[Brikhous3]

always a sad day when your local police officer dies. im happy the trend is leading us away from high officer deaths.

[NineSpine]

Well I think gun ownership is neither here nor there because often gun crimes are committed by people who are not the legal owners of the guns.

The more available guns are, the easier it is for people to obtain illegal ones. Virtually every illegal gun is legal at some point and is then purchased illegally or stolen. A society with substantially fewer legal guns therefore has substantially fewer illegal guns, as their availability goes down.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Yet deaths by firearms caused by police officers... probably going up.

Well it only took 2 replies before the random cop hatred began. Toss in a little bit of wild speculation.

[NineSpine]

Well it only took 2 replies before the random cop hatred began. Toss in a little bit of wild speculation.

Because opposing police murdering people is "hatred", right?

[Wells]

The US serves as a military might for several countries.

Like who?

10char.

[NineSpine]

Not sure if this is a serious question or sarcastic, but the United States is known for flexing its military might for our allies quite frequently. If you want I can give specific examples, but there's a reason we're known as the "World Police."

I think that the way the initial post was taken was to be that he meant that we flex our military might for people to GOOD and PRODUCTIVE ends.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

That graph seems to indicate that the rate of felonious police deaths is decreasing, but also has a spike on election years.

Or something else entirely. Probably something else entirely. Well except the part about the decrease.

[Wells]

Not sure if this is a serious question or sarcastic, but the United States is known for flexing its military might for our allies quite frequently. If you want I can give specific examples, but there's a reason we're known as the "World Police."

Last time we directly engaged in military action for the benefit of an ally?

Bonus points if they didn't have a serious military of their own.

[NineSpine]

The problem is that people around here are quick to take sides rather than look at things with an open mind. They pick whichever side most aligns with their political beliefs and then refuse to accept anything the other side has to say. The vast majority of cases in which a police officer uses lethal force are justified, however the few cases in which it is "questionable" folks are very quick to crucify the officer. I think it's because MMO-Champion attracts a younger demographic. As I've gotten older and associated with older people, I find that the majority of people love law enforcement and have a huge amount of respect for police officers. Of course, that's just my experience and my opinion, I'm sure others feel differently or interpret things differently.

I understand what you are saying, but there is the pesky reality that over the last 12 years in particular the police forces of the United States have become increasingly militarized and increasingly inoculated to responsibility for violations. The fact is that we have come to treat law enforcement like their jobs are intensely, unbelievably dangerous and that's simply not true. Being a roofer is more dangerous, statistically, but you don't see anyone arguing that my father (a roofer) needs an enormous amount of extralegal power and shouldn't be responsible for his actions in order to protect himself. Law enforcement should get respect as it is earned. These aren't volunteers. They are doing a job and are given broad power over other citizens in execution of that job. They should be held to a higher standard in exchange for that power, not a lower standard.

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I suppose it depends on how you interpret some of our conflicts. Most recently, I'd say much of what we have done in the Middle-East is to the benefit of Israel.

Only superficially. Allowing Israel to continue it's disastrous course is only beneficial to the Likud party, not the people or nation of Israel.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Last time we directly engaged in military action for the benefit of an ally?

Bonus points if they didn't have a serious military of their own.

Eh, if you only count direct military action then you're only counting failures, because it is a failure if direct military action is required.

[Kapadons]

Last time we directly engaged in military action for the benefit of an ally?

Bonus points if they didn't have a serious military of their own.

Engaging in military action is not the same as being the military might for a country. Simply the concept of the US military backing you is enough in today's diplomatic society.


Canada would be the first to come to mind. It is implied that an attack on Canada would be met by the US.

[Wells]

Engaging in military action is not the same as being the military might for a country. Simply the concept of the US military backing you is enough in today's diplomatic society.

When was the last time this mattered?

[lockedout]

Because opposing police murdering people is "hatred", right?

They're just doing their job, gosh.

[Krolikn]

Cops shooting first and asking questions later is really helping.

[Hakto]

That is more than just a few rednecks with guns. And the US could take over Australia rather easily if we wanted to. Fear is more powerful than guns.

lol what? Firstly illustrate how the US could 'easily' take over Australia, secondly demonstrate any real need for the fear of the US Government behaving in such a way to require citizens to take up arms against them.

[lockedout]

lol what? Firstly illustrate how the US could 'easily' take over Australia, secondly demonstrate any real need for the fear of the US Government behaving in such a way to require citizens to take up arms against them.

You got oil over there?

[NineSpine]

I'd actually argue that things have gotten better and less militarized than the other way around, at least for local/state level law enforcement. Think about what else happened over "the last 12 years." Widespread use of internet took off and continues to become more popular. We live in the age of information, in which anything that happens anywhere is easily discovered thanks to the power of the internet. Lots of horrible things were committed by both law enforcement and law violators that we'll never, ever know about because they were only covered locally and were not popular enough to reach national headlines.

Since the 90's, the vast majority of police departments have adopted a philosophy known as "Community Policing," in which the goal is for police officers to be actively visible in the community and assisting with things other than direct crime-fighting. The para-military structure of police departments has slowly but surely been changing to a more professional, business-like structure. For example, the largest police department in my state has done away with all military ranks for titles except for "Sergeant," and has instead opted for numbered titles (ex: Police Officer - 2).

I'm sorry, but your extrapolating your local issues onto the nation. You need to take a look at what's going on nationally.

[Theinquisition]

Like who?

10char.

Preserving global economic security for everyone.

Wars cause ripples in supply and logistics models, thereby increasing costs for goods all over the world. No one throws a big war in our global economy knowing that America will squash anything major.