What makes an ADC?

[Jibjabb]

Ive been playing League a while now, but I never really got into the statistics aspect of each champion and merely went by how they were perceived by the player base. But as I have been looking at champions base stats and their scaling per level I dont understand what exactly makes someone an ADC.

For example Nidalee has higher base AD and scaling than Ashe, so why couldnt she theoretically play an ADC role. Yes most of her move are AP but theres already ADC champions with AP moves (Ezreal, Tristana, Corki etc). And this isnt just for Nidalee but many other ranged types that would normally play mid: Leblanc, Morgana, Lux.

Obviously it sounds wrong to have any of these as ADCs but what is it exactly that makes it not work when it appears like the attack damage would be the same if not higher than normal ADC champions.

[Hateful]

A number of things contribute to making an ADC, not least:

- AA range
- Steroids (AD or Attk Spd)
- General scaling (especially with items/gold moreso than lvls)
- Escapes and/or ability to kite
- Abilities that scale with AD

You could play Nidalee as an ADC, but she has a shortish attack range, and her escape / kiting ability stops her being able to AA. Additionally none of her ranged moves scale with AD, and if she jumps into melee range...well, splat. She is a far better poke champ than ADC. Its not playing to her strengths.

Now of course you dont need all of these things. Tristana makes up for no scaling abilities with scaling range and great escapes and steroid. Ezreal has good escapes, a passive steroid and good poke. You'll find that very few champs have abilities that only scale with AD - usually there is at least 1 AP scaling move to provide balance.

Lux, LB and Morgana have no steroids and no AD scaling abilities, instead scaling purely with AP. They are much more suited to an AP role (typically to blow someone up in a combo) than sustained damage. Their entire kit revolves around the assumption they will do damage with their spells not AAs.

Keep in mind you can play any champ as an ADC and have success. It's just a matter of who is optimal for the role, and what their strengths and weaknesses are as well as their overall kit.

ADCs vary immensely though, and have their own niche. E.g MF good AoE, Graves good burst, Sivir strong pushing/AoE and team utility. Tristana absurd scaling, Ez good poke, Ashe great kiting and initiate, Caitlyn immense range and lane bully potential (very simplistic breakdowns but hopefully you get the idea).

[Deleted]

actually Nidalee has a steroid; her E grants a pretty decent percentage of attack speed for some time, but yes what the above poster said is true safe for the nida part

[Hateful]

actually Nidalee has a steroid; her E grants a pretty decent percentage of attack speed for some time, but yes what the above poster said is true safe for the nida part

Missed that, will edit it out - cheers!

[Duilliath]

Base stats can make a huge difference. Abilities can make a huge difference.

	Nidalee	Tristana
Range:	525	550 (703 @ 18)
AD:	49 + 3.5/lvl	46.5 + 3/lvl
AS:	0.67 + 3.22%/lvl	0.656 + 4%/lvl

At a glance, it doesn't look too bad. Nidalee has decent AS and better AS scaling than some AD carries. Caitlyn starts at a horrible 0.625, as does Corki and he gets a horrendous 2.3% / level.

But that 525 range means that quite literally every single AD carry in the game outranges her. Sivir only has 500, but her Q and W extend her range. Quinn has 525, and she's played in other lanes. Even so she has range extending abilities. The key here, those do scale with AD.

Additionally, Nidalee has no steroid. Caitlyn at least has her headshot. Tristana has the best steroid in game @ 90% attack speed. Going AD Nidalee requires you spending 140 mana on a 60% attack speed buff that you also could've given to the friendly Tristana or Ezreal in the first place.

Long story short:
* Base scaling
* Steroids
* Range

[Isotope]

You could play Nidalee as an ADC, but she has a shortish attack range, and her escape / kiting ability stops her being able to AA. Additionally none of her ranged moves scale with AD, and if she jumps into melee range...well, splat. She is a far better poke champ than ADC. Its not playing to her strengths.

I used to play quite a bit of Nid back in the day and picked her up again a few weeks ago. I can tell you that if she jumps into melee range she won't get blown up unless it's a team fight type of thing, which any adc/apc would do if they started trying to be a bruiser. However nid can gib somebody pretty easy with a spear cougar Q.

Quinn has 525, and she's played in other lanes.

Quinn is played????

To the topic:

What makes an ADC is they rely on heavy ranged basic attacks and don't really scale well off of AP. While some AP champions can auto attack usually most of that burst comes from Lich Bane (think TF.) The only real exception to that is Teemo but he is almost always played top because he is the bruiser killer with his Q and E.

[Duilliath]

don't really scale well off of AP

Careful here. Tristana has insane AP scaling and Ez is still played AP. Most of the older AD carries have AP ratios.

[Hateful]

I used to play quite a bit of Nid back in the day and picked her up again a few weeks ago. I can tell you that if she jumps into melee range she won't get blown up unless it's a team fight type of thing, which any adc/apc would do if they started trying to be a bruiser.

Yes, I'm talking about in team fights. It depends on the situation, but against anybody with coordination she will be insta killed if she tries to hop into melee range with a pure ADC build, just like any other.

Her spear does a whopping 230 damage max rank at her max AA range (525). Assuming you throw it from further then you aren't going to be in range for any executes in cougar form, so I'm not sure where you could ever spear + cougar execute 'instagib' someone. 230 dmg (pre mitigation) is a drop in the ocean, even on an enemy carry.

[Simulacrum]

...
Additionally, Nidalee has no steroid. Caitlyn at least has her headshot. Tristana has the best steroid in game @ 90% attack speed. Going AD Nidalee requires you spending 140 mana on a 60% attack speed buff that you also could've given to the friendly Tristana or Ezreal in the first place.

...

That's jinx, with her 130%.

[Deleted]

That's jinx, with her 130%.

Arguably Jinx needs to be up close and personal and to fire 3 shots before that steroid works, whereas Trist can just stay at her regular range and press Q for a pretty long duration steroid :P

[Simulacrum]

Arguably Jinx needs to be up close and personal and to fire 3 shots before that steroid works, whereas Trist can just stay at her regular range and press Q for a pretty long duration steroid :P

staying up close and personal is how she gets excited!

[Well]

An ADC is born when the character cannot fill any other role. If they can't be an effective mage, bruiser, tank, assasin, support, then they are going for the ADC role which can be done from anyone since it only typically requires AutoAttacking (AA). The more an ADC can fulfil another role. the more variations in their builds you will see.


Also, Tristana's steroid is the best you will ever get, Jinx included.

[Angarin]

Why does an AD have to have range? I know its safer, but yasuo I'm surprised wasn't an adc with his passive scaling

Fiora is still considered a carry to my knowledge

And so is gangplank

And tryn, with his passive scaling

And yi

[Duilliath]

That's jinx, with her 130%.

No. That's due to the base modifiers impacting that steroid, a lot.

Jinx has a base of 0.625 + 1% per level. That is incredibly low.

For more info: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_speed

//edit: At lvl 18, Tristana has a base atk speed gain of 68,625%. Jinx' gain is a mere 17%.

- - - Updated - - -

Why does an AD have to have range? I know its safer, but yasuo I'm surprised wasn't an adc with his passive scaling

Fiora is still considered a carry to my knowledge

And so is gangplank

And tryn, with his passive scaling

And yi

Because if they don't, they get blown up. That's why someone like Tryndamere has a 'I don't die now'-ability.

Range is essential, because getting into melee range of bruisers as a squishy glass cannon means you will die. It is necessary to siege down turrets when they are defended. Sustained DPS is needed to take down objectives like the Baron, which only someone like Karthus or Cassiopeia can do as mages.

[Isotope]

Careful here. Tristana has insane AP scaling and Ez is still played AP. Most of the older AD carries have AP ratios.[/FONT]

The thing about Trist as AP she is a one trick pony. All she has is rocket jump/ult to burst somebody down. If that doesn't work she is screwed. It's also dependent on her getting fed early game and not falling behind. I've seen my AP Trist's fail because they can't get enough AP to burst down the APC/ADC that they are basically dead weight on their team.

Yes, I'm talking about in team fights. It depends on the situation, but against anybody with coordination she will be insta killed if she tries to hop into melee range with a pure ADC build, just like any other.

Her spear does a whopping 230 damage max rank at her max AA range (525). Assuming you throw it from further then you aren't going to be in range for any executes in cougar form, so I'm not sure where you could ever spear + cougar execute 'instagib' someone. 230 dmg (pre mitigation) is a drop in the ocean, even on an enemy carry.

I was talking about AP Nid not AD. AD Nid was played back when cougar form gave armor/mr and she was more of a bruiser than what she is now. You can still jump into team fights and E+Q and smash somebody. When playing nid and a team fight breaks out you're going to have to go into cougar form to be useful. Standing out of the fight and just AA and healing the ADC for the AS boost while waiting for Q to come off CD doesn't work.

[Duilliath]

Not saying it's optimal. Just saying she has better AP scaling than some actual mages.

[Hateful]

The thing about Trist as AP she is a one trick pony. All she has is rocket jump/ult to burst somebody down. If that doesn't work she is screwed. It's also dependent on her getting fed early game and not falling behind. I've seen my AP Trist's fail because they can't get enough AP to burst down the APC/ADC that they are basically dead weight on their team.

He's not saying AP Trist is amazing, he is saying it is possible. Just like ADC Nidalee is possible, but is sub-optimal. You keep straying from people's points...

Also you left out that Trist has her E ability that scales with AP. Her AP scaling is incredibly good, and she can fulfil a burst role similar to LB or Annie (albeit without the same CC if behind).

I was talking about AP Nid not AD. AD Nid was played back when cougar form gave armor/mr and she was more of a bruiser than what she is now. You can still jump into team fights and E+Q and smash somebody. When playing nid and a team fight breaks out you're going to have to go into cougar form to be useful. Standing out of the fight and just AA and healing the ADC for the AS boost while waiting for Q to come off CD doesn't work.

This whole thread is about ADC's. I was talking specifically about ADC Nid...so thanks for the irrelevant sidenote? I'm aware of how Nidalee works - I play her quite frequently!

But the thread isn't about Bruiser or AP Nid, it's about what makes an ADC.

[Duilliath]

Some Trollish AP carries^* built as ADC that Just Might Work^TM

- Kennen. Used to work due to his W and base stats, good range. Has been nerfed since. Still has self peel, isn't totally atrocious due to being energy based.
- Annie. Still has her stun, quite tanky due to her E. Good range (part of the reason she's so strong as support). Her attack speed is measured in glacial years.
- Ahri. Decent range, some additional sustain and good mobility once she hits lvl 6. Fails at pretty much everything else.
- Soraka. Because bananas of doom.

[Thallidomaniac]

Some Trollish AP carries^* built as ADC that Just Might Work^TM

- Kennen. Used to work due to his W and base stats, good range. Has been nerfed since. Still has self peel, isn't totally atrocious due to being energy based.
- Annie. Still has her stun, quite tanky due to her E. Good range (part of the reason she's so strong as support). Her attack speed is measured in glacial years.
- Ahri. Decent range, some additional sustain and good mobility once she hits lvl 6. Fails at pretty much everything else.
- Soraka. Because bananas of doom.

Don't forget ADC Twisted Fate, albeit he's even worse than the likes of AD Kennen due to his kit being designed as an AP assassin and not an ADC. Namely, his W (Pick a Card) damage can't crit, always turns the attack into magic damage, and heals off of Spellvamp instead of Lifesteal. Also, Q does very little for ADC TF later on in games.

[Duilliath]

Ziggs should be a lot of fun. He's probably one of my fave chars in all of LoL.