Same gear and gems for Destro and Affliction?

[Tailstrike]

Evening fellow locks,

I have finally after many many painful nights (may or may not be exaggerating) I have finally settled on my lock being my main for PVE and had a few gearing questions.

I have played destro thoughout this entire expansion and am looking to play a little bit of affliction for a few fights where required and was wondering if i can keep the same gear and gems for both specs and it is as simple as just changing specs and off i go?

From everything i have seen this is ok but as long as i hit a haste cap of 9778 (based on what i read on Sparkuggs aff guide) and this should be acheiveable (i think) as destro - balancing crit and haste ie Int > 15% Hit (5100) > Haste (9778) > Mastery > Haste > Crit

Or am i completly wrong?

[Zarandra]

Have 9778 Haste is perfectly fine for destro/aff. Then go mastery afterwards = win.

Now you can have both destro and affliction

[Alarinth]

This is correct, but remember that the scale value for intellect is not high enough to be better than mastery at a 1:2 ratio. This means that int is only better than mastery if mastery is less than twice the amount of int.

To put it simple, pick mastery over intellect in gemslots.

[TheCheeseLord]

the scale value for intellect is not high enough to be better than mastery at a 1:2 ratio. This means that int is only better than mastery if mastery is less than twice the amount of int.

Here's the exact values of a destruction warlock's stats in 5.4 (dont know if it applies to other specs)
Int - 7.3
Spell hit - 6.7 (This one can largely be ignored since its practically mandatory anyways)
Mastery - 4.6
Crit - 4.5
Haste - 4.2 (That is, after hitting the desired haste cap)

So, when you gem, add these numbers up and see which gems come out with a higher value.
For example, the tier 16 warlock chestpiece has 3 red slots and a 180 intellect gemming bonus. By sticking 3 Artful Vermilion Onyx in it, you end up with a total value of 5274 [((160x3)x4.6)+((80+80+80+180)x7.3)]. If you were to put 3 Fractured Sun's radiance in it, you would only end up with 4416 [((320x3)x4.6)].
Therefore, it would be advantageous for you to use Artful Vermilion Onyx. Obviously, JCs will want to use the 320 int gem rather than the 480 mastery gem since youre only gaining 160x2 of a given stat anyways.

As for what to gem for while trying to hit a haste cap, i dont know how that would compare to gemming for intellect.

Edit - As was clarified in the following posts, Keen Vermilion Onyx can also be useful to give yourself room to refoge hit on your gear into other secondary stats.

[Deleted]

Therefore, it would be advantageous for you to use Artful Vermilion Onyx.

Why not just use Keen as most of us.
But yeah OP if your itemlevel is high enough (or you just happen to have lots of haste in your gear), you can reach that haste breakpoint without even sacrificing any mastery for it. Until then you can do it, or just play destro with full mastery, since affli isn't that special in lower gear levels anyway.

[TheCheeseLord]

Why not just use Keen as most of us?

Sorry if this seems like micro-posting, but at my ilvl (558), since i dont need to dedicate much of my gemming to hit, i like to use blue/green gems (that is, Wild Sensei's jade or Rigid river's heart) to hit the hit cap rather than red/orange ones. What would i stick in blue slots if my hit cap is already reached?

Did they do something to expertise for casters that made it better than hit that i didn't notice?

[Elorii]

Stacking expertise can allow us to reforge hit from items, since it also contributes to our Spell Hit. Other than that, no, nothing special.

[Deleted]

Did they do something to expertise for casters that made it better than hit that i didn't notice?

No, but since secondaries are better than 0.5 int, it's totally worth using them. Not sure about how the itemlevel and scaling exactly goes, but my wild guess would be that 558 would benefit from Keen. If you're using Rigid river's heart, you might as well use Sensei's wild jade in that socket and replace one Artful for Keen. Not like it would matter or make your dps skyrocket, but such small things add up.

[Strifey]

Go for the 10124 haste breakpoint which is the immolate breakpoint on destro.

Haste is already better than crit for affliction even after breakpoints, so going from 9778 to 10124 doesn't have a downside if you're playing both specs.

[Baconeggcheese]

@cheese: If you don't have a ton of overall hit on your gear then sometimes gemming expertise along with the obvious green gems allows you to reforge into more secondaries since 2 of any secondary is worth more than 1 int. You won't really see much of a difference completely re-gemming for this though even with the scaling you posted you're talking a few hundred to a grand of dps difference at best which is well within the margin of error.

[Deleted]

Go for the 10124 haste breakpoint which is the immolate breakpoint on destro.

Destro breakpoints aren't important enough to sacrifice any mastery for them though.

[Strifey]

Destro breakpoints aren't important enough to sacrifice any mastery for them though.

It isn't if you solely play Destro and only have like 5K natural haste or something, it is when you only need 346 haste to hit a breakpoint though because you're already going for 9778 Aff, especially on multi-target which there is alot of in SoO.

[TheCheeseLord]

bacon and Deyana: thanks for clarifying that, i had been wondering why some people have been using keen over artful. i should go check that out.

[Baconeggcheese]

Askmrrobot is a really useful and helpful tool for this, just be prepared to play with the scaling settings and not just use everything on default.

[TheCheeseLord]

I tried using mr robot for some of my stuff. Does mr robot take the Keen vermilion onyx into account? Because the only expertise its giving me is a 170 exp glove enchant.

[Baconeggcheese]

As long as your gems aren't locked in it'll base it on whatever scaling is put into it and automatically adjust. Link your armory I'll check it out.

[TheCheeseLord]

MMO Champion isnt letting me post any links yet, seeing as I just started here yesterday.
Go on google and search 'Cheeselord Proudmoore'. The warlock in the ruthless gladiator transmog set is me.

[Deleted]

MMO Champion isnt letting me post any links yet, seeing as I just started here yesterday.
Go on google and search 'Cheeselord Proudmoore'. The warlock in the ruthless gladiator transmog set is me.

Your gear has high hit as it is, all is reforged off, that's why AMR isn't giving you any Keens. Normally it does.

[Baconeggcheese]

What deyana said, you have a ton of hit on your gear as well as 5 blue sockets so its just a matter of getting rid of all the excess hit. So no you shouldn't be using keens in your gear.

[TheCheeseLord]

sigh...

Quote from Icy Veins...
"Note that because of the exponential scaling of secondary statistics versus primary statistics, Intellect now has such a low value that Keen Vermilion Onyx gems are a DPS gain at any level above 550. The caveat being that you have to be able to reforge out of enough Hit Rating on your gear to use the gems."

So theyre dirty liars? My gear was fine the way it was?