Soloing old content in WoD MIGHT be affected - latest tweet

[Aydinx2]

I see you don't believe it, but if you do the math on the squish, you will see that, yes, soloing MC, yet alone Naxx, on level 90 is going to be much, much, much harder than it is now. And, yes, they do say that it's not the squish, but they also never detailed as to what exactly is going to compensate the squish, and - the kicker - they say that balancing at level 90 isn't going to be a target in WoD at all, right in the tweet I cited (so if what they do to compensate the squish for level 100 doesn't work at all or well enough for level 90, it's fine).

You're obviously blinded by anger.
Why would they need to compensate the squish?
Enemies will get squished as well. Everything will.

[masticator]

It has been clear for ages that when they do the squish making scaling linear from the current exponential model it will affect soloing. If you have any basic math skills you'd understand this. They might do a cop out and add a buff in lower level raids that enables you to faceroll them which in my opinion is a bad solution.

[Lodreh]

OP, your entire argument is conjecture. It's far more likely you need to look at the entire picture. For instance, if you are soloing level 70 content with a level 80 you might not be able to after the patch. Soloing at low levels isn't a balance focus. Both of those tiers are going to be linear after the patch. They expressly stated the greatest impact will happen at these tiers. Therefore, the post is just giving those who do these extreme kind of things fair warning that low level soloing isn't their priority. I could be wrong... but I feel this is more likely the intent.

[rda]

You're obviously blinded by anger.
Why would they need to compensate the squish?
Enemies will get squished as well. Everything will.

That's a bad way to show that I am blinded, because they do need something to compensate the squish if they want soloing power to stay intact, even if only at max-level.

It has been explained many times already. A simple example, all numbers are imaginary, but to scale:

MOP: Level 60 boss has 1mil HP and hits for 1k. Level 90 player has 500k HP and hits for 100k. It takes a player 10 hits to down a boss, it takes a boss 500 hits to down a player. The boss is easily soloable.

MOP after item squish (won't make things more difficult with WoD, but I can assure you that it works the same way): Level 60 boss still has 1mil HP and hits for 1k (surprise! no scaling, because the squish applies to higher levels and turns logarithmic growth into linear growth, see Blizzard chart and tweets). Level 90 player has 10k HP and hits for 2k. It takes a player 500 hits to down a boss, it takes a boss 10 hits to down a player. The boss is very likely completely unsoloable.

See?

[Marfrilau]

You're obviously blinded by anger.
Why would they need to compensate the squish?
Enemies will get squished as well. Everything will.

Oh dear, another poster who still don't know what the squish is. Yes enemies get squished aswell but a lvl 90 player will get squished by a larger factor than say the lvl 80 lich king in icc. That's why it's called the squish. Reducing everything in the game with the same factor is called the mega damage solution which is NOT what they are doing.

[gamingmuscle]

That's a bad way to show that I am blinded, because they do need something to compensate the squish if they want soloing power to stay intact, even if only at max-level.

It has been explained many times already. A simple example, all numbers are imaginary, but to scale:

MOP: Level 60 boss has 1mil HP and hits for 1k. Level 90 player has 500k HP and hits for 100k. It takes a player 10 hits to down a boss, it takes a boss 500 hits to down a player. The boss is easily soloable.

MOP after item squish (won't make things more difficult with WoD, but I can assure you that it works the same way): Level 60 boss still has 1mil HP and hits for 1k (surprise! no scaling, because the squish applies to higher levels and turns logarithmic growth into linear growth, see Blizzard chart and tweets). Level 90 player has 10k HP and hits for 2k. It takes a player 500 hits to down a boss, it takes a boss 10 hits to down a player. The boss is very likely completely unsoloable.

See?

Yeah I don't think your numbers are right there.

[Trubo]

If their art wasn't so goddamn butt ugly I'd give it a shot.
But the style is so not my cup of tea... >.<


Yes because, Damage > all when it comes to soloing more or less trivial stuff.
You kill Kaelthas in 30s today, you will kill him 30s post squish. Once you're lv. 100 and gather more gear you will kill him even faster.

Now will DKs still be able to solo crazy stuff like current/last Tiers content?
THAT most certainly is up to debate and may be impacted heavily by spell/mechanical changes.

Thats what Celestalon is referring to.

Current tier stuff hasn't been soloable this expansion as a DK before T16 and that's not so much their survivability but taking advantage of how boss mechanics work. Warlocks have been better with regards to the most current content solo with them being the only class that I'm aware that's capable of doing Ji-Kun solo (dunno if they did it during ToT or not). Paladins before the Vengeance nerf in 5.4 were also the only class that could solo Primordius (was done on both West and China servers). Immerseus I'd consider a wash since you can outrange Corruption Blast or whatever.

As for the topic at hand I expected something to give if they weren't going with the Mega Damage (Flaming Arcanite Rippers in the background) solution. As long as stuff isn't too adversely affected by the squish at 100 I won't care.

[rda]

Yeah I don't your numbers are right there.

Not sure I understand you. In my example, before the squish the boss is easily soloable, and after the squish the boss is very likely completely unsoloable. In order for the boss to remain soloable after the squish there needs to be some compensation.

[thedingleberry]

Who cares about soloing instances at lower levels. I just want to plow through the instance anyway. Just get to max level and do it.

[Lodreh]

Get it straight from the source.

[Trix]

Learn to read OP.

[Deleted]

That's a bad way to show that I am blinded, because they do need something to compensate the squish if they want soloing power to stay intact, even if only at max-level.

It has been explained many times already. A simple example, all numbers are imaginary, but to scale:

MOP: Level 60 boss has 1mil HP and hits for 1k. Level 90 player has 500k HP and hits for 100k. It takes a player 10 hits to down a boss, it takes a boss 500 hits to down a player. The boss is easily soloable.

MOP after item squish (won't make things more difficult with WoD, but I can assure you that it works the same way): Level 60 boss still has 1mil HP and hits for 1k (surprise! no scaling, because the squish applies to higher levels and turns logarithmic growth into linear growth, see Blizzard chart and tweets). Level 90 player has 10k HP and hits for 2k. It takes a player 500 hits to down a boss, it takes a boss 10 hits to down a player. The boss is very likely completely unsoloable.

See?

Why do you assume Level 60 bosses won't be squished? Of course they will be. The example you gave here is simply wrong.
However, in a earlier post you said the squish will reduce the power gap between a level 60 and a level 90 character, which is correct and will happen. This change alone would make old raids significant harder, that's a fact.

Blizzard however stated, they could easily fix this by buffing max level players upon entering an old dungeon to the life and damage they would have been without the item squish. This was mentioned MULTIPLE times in thsis thread and I don't get how you can not get that into your brain

You're obviously blinded by anger.
Why would they need to compensate the squish?
Enemies will get squished as well. Everything will.

Wow there are so many misinformed people here talking about the squish but not knowing anything about how it works at all.
Even the wrong people try to correct other ppl being wrong. Damn

[Thyranne]

Why do you assume Level 60 bosses won't be squished? Of course they will be. The example you gave here is simply wrong.

Blizzard already said level 60 will remain untouched a few times now. They said that the exponential growth will likely start at level 85.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2013/12/13/li...now-though-85/

[rda]

Why do you assume Level 60 bosses won't be squished? Of course they will be. The example you gave here is simply wrong.

See the chart and their tweets. That's all.

Blizzard however stated, they could easily fix this by buffing max level players upon entering an old dungeon to the life and damage they would have been without the item squish.

It's not Blizzard who was saying that, it's the suggestion from the players. One of the suggestions. That doesn't fix world bosses, just in case (there are ones that do). LOL.

[lookatmypet]

Wildstar. Wildstar's another reason to quit.

So was SWTOR, and look what happened to that.

[Bisso]

All the "squish will not affect soloing" folks really need to be more objective. Most of you are demanding it won't affect soloing without having any proof this is the case; you're just saying this because it's the biggest argument against the squish.

Find me one Blizz post where it says the squish WILL NOT affect soloing. Every one I've seen says it SHOULD NOT. That they will TRY TO not let it affect soloing. That the GOAL is for it to not affect soloing. If I've missed one where they say, in absolute terms, that it WILL NOT affect soloing, I'm very eager to have someone correct me on this.

The expansion is still in development, what do you expect, I can't look up for the source now, but they said they were already thinking of couple of ways to fix it, the thought they've let out was a buff (to players) or a debuff (to mobs and bosses) that would scale with the level difference a player has with a lower level monster.

The way I would see it would be a combinasion of the two.

Starting at 5 level difference (for 90vs85, 85vs80 (Dont mind the level 83 and 88 boss levels for now)

Mobs and Bosses have a scaling (depending on the level difference) "Glancing blow", making their attacks less and less effective to players, not just white attacks but all abilities (except enrages and 1hit kill stuff).

Players have a scaling "Overpower attacks", making their attacks more and more effective to lower level mobs and bosses, on all abilities.

The second one isn't a something I like personally because it will mean level 100 players will do insane DPS on old content compared to current one. While it's not a deal breaker, it's not as pretty as the first change.

For anyone who still do not understand how squish can affect soloing, I will repeat, please spread the word:
A stats squish DOES affect lower-level solo content unless there's something like I just posted is applied on top of it. Because a level 100 is more affected by the squish than a level 90, and the level 90 is more affected than a 80, and so on, until a point (probably close to 60) is unaffected.

A level 80 players vs a 80 mob will indeed remain unchanged, because both will get their hp and dmg reduce by the same amount, but since a level 80 will be reduce by say, 1/10, and a level 60 remain nearly unchanged, the gap of hp and damage would be greatly reduced, affecting the capacity to solo. A level 90 would be reduced by say, 1/100, so a level 90 power compared to lvl80 content would go from: 100:1 to 10:1. So a LK would hit your level 90 for 10x more % of your health than it would do right now, and you would need to hit him for 10x more than you used to in order to bring him down. So while some class could actually still solo old content, it WOULD affect it!

[Zaqwert]

So not only do people expect to be able to solo all the old content, which in an MMO is exceptionally ridiculous, but they also expect to be able to solo it at ANY LEVEL?

Jesus Christ.

[Mawnix]

Why would you solo anything before you're max level?

It makes total sense that soloing at lower levels would be affected..

Way to make a mountain out of an ant hill.

[rda]

So not only do people expect to be able to solo all the old content, which in an MMO is exceptionally ridiculous, but they also expect to be able to solo it at ANY LEVEL?

Jesus Christ.

Why would you solo anything before you're max level?

It makes total sense that soloing at lower levels would be affected..

From the first post:

-----

I see this needs clarification.

No, they aren't saying that soloing at level 100 in WoD isn't a balance target or might suffer, these words relate to soloing at lower levels. If they were saying these things about soloing at level 100, it would have been game over. But, having read Blizz-speak for years, I believe there's ample reasons to worry about soloing at level 100 in WoD compared to level 90 in MoP as well.

Blizzard never deliver bad news like broken promises looking straight in your face. They keep silent, then they grudgingly say some things which can be interpreted as bad news, and then, when it becomes apparent that they dropped the ball, they point to those things they said that could have been interpreted as bad news (and largely weren't, because the fanboys were objecting furiously) and pretend that they were misunderstood and never "actually" promised anything.

That's what I think is happening here.

Maybe my judgement is clouded. Take it or leave it. And time will tell, of course. But yes, I believe soloing at level 100 is in danger and will pretty likely be affected.

[Sacrelis]

I swear there's gotta be a smear campaign against Blizzard by some other company somehow. Every single day there's complains about this, complains about that, reading essays between lines, making nonsensical leap of judgement off every word and syllabus the devs put out. Perhaps we should go back to the TBC days eh? Where there's LITTLE TO NO developer/player communication channels?

You know who make soloing old content possible? NOT BLIZZARD, we did. We the players went back to solo the content. There are fights that weren't soloable, the players find ways to overcome it. There were fights that were impossible to solo, we brought friends and did them easily, some used more interesting adaptions of game mechanics. The players done it back then, they will continue to develop new ways to do it if things changed. People like Raegwyn who continues to solo stuff not possible, do you think Blizzard "balance" the game for them?

@OP, who the hell are you?