Are the sub losses partly down to Blizzard's "rush everybody into latest tier" design

[Duronos]

I always loved how they handled content in TBC. Regardless of when in the expansion, Karazhan was still 'current' in some way, be it your own alts, or finding that elusive trinket or weapon.

It felt that way a bit in WotLK too. I still ran Naxx even though my main was killing LK 25 Hc; there was always a raid, or some content, that could be done (except ToC, but let's just let that turd be forgotten)

Yeah that's what I'm trying to say too, raids like Karazhan were still relevant even after the next tier came out and that made in essence more content to do.

[Deleted]

The sub losses are MAINLY down to reasons Blizzard have no control over, and anyone who says otherwise is a retard.

Coming from someone who doesn't play anymore.

[rda]

The sub losses are mainly down to reasons Blizzard have no control over PERIOD.

Coming from someone who doesn't play anymore.

What would those reasons be? "The game is old"?

[Deleted]

It is part of the problem, yes. However, it will never be any other way. Blizzard has done all they can to make this game about casuals players. This means they have to make the game easy and shallow. If they didn't the casuals would all leave. Then what? Be stuck with a bunch of loyal supporters who enjoy deep content that requires multiple levels of gearing, adventuring, and progression? Crazy talk right there. The future of WoW is a casual facebook style game. #instantgratification

Rofl casuals would never leave they are leaving now becous there isnt any content left and no switch to higher difficulty do not add more content it is same content thats why lot of players are not interested in hardcore rading. There is no point raid hc raids. TBC was interesting much more for casuals then mop ever was coz you had yourney there was alawys content legt to explore. And now what? You ding lvl 90 go afk farm 522 gear on timeless isle faceroll LFT and you can leave game becous there is no content left for you.

[Deleted]

What would those reasons be? "The game is old"?

1. There are other games on the market
2. Yes, the game is old.
3. With the console market growing bigger and bigger, WoW is finding less and less newcomers, young people, and losing veterans due to them moving on, growing up, etc, add to that the mainstream "WoW is for nerds" stereotype, most youngsters take to a mainstream game like CoD than WoW.

These are all factors that were nonexistent back in earlier days.
Questions?

[rda]

1. There are other games on the market
2. Yes, the game is old.
3. With the console market growing bigger and bigger, WoW is finding less and less newcomers, young people, and losing veterans due to them moving on, growing up, etc, add to that the mainstream "WoW is for nerds" stereotype, most youngsters take to a mainstream game like CoD than WoW.

These are all factors that were nonexistent back in earlier days.
Questions?

Please note that in every single item you brought, Blizzard are in position to influence the situation heavily.

Other games on the market? Do a better product.
The game is old? It is you (Blizzard) who are keeping it "old" by sticking to the same old mantras ("raid or die", for one).
People are attracted to consoles? Do a WoW-themed app for consoles???

WoW is losing subs due to Blizzard making poor decisions and due to them being SLOW.

"Oh, mommy, they don't buy my horse rides anymore, they all drive cars now..." And - "That factor was nonexistent back in earlier days." Pathetic.

[Jessicka]

Yeah that's what I'm trying to say too, raids like Karazhan were still relevant even after the next tier came out and that made in essence more content to do.

They were relevant only because there were enough new players coming in at that level consistently to keep it relevant. They were also new enough and clueless enough that they didn't know any different. That environment simply doesn't exist anymore.

[Tomana]

Other games on the market? Do a better product.

Only it does not work, because the problem is not WoW - it's MMOs in general. People no longer like to commit that much to a game.

The game is old? It is you who are keeping it "old" by sticking to the same old mantras ("raid or die", for one).

Please point me to a successful game doing something else. Guess what, there aren't any at all.

People are attracted to consoles? Do a WoW-themed app for consoles???

What the heck is a wow-themed app?

- - - Updated - - -

They were relevant only because there were enough new players coming in at that level consistently to keep it relevant. They were also new enough and clueless enough that they didn't know any different. That environment simply doesn't exist anymore.

And even than, people that were running Karazhan (running being defined as something more than wiping on Attumen's trash) were a minority.

[judgementofantonidas]

um... what? I think you're confusing WoW with some other game to say that.

players that choose not to or are incapable of completing raid content always fall back on that one.

[schwank05]

I love the old model, For instance I remember back in BC my guild was behind a Tier the whole xpac, but this did not mean that In my T4 gear I couldn't Rock it out in BT. It meant that I was a raider still, I just didn't have the latest and greatest. The problem now is T14 was useless the second T15 was released and so on and so forth. This is what I would like to change back I love progressing through "Older Content" that is in the current xpac.

[wych]

players that choose not to or are incapable of completing raid content always fall back on that one.

It's true though, most players don't clear current content raids

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

No, in fact changing back to the vanilla/bc linear system would hurt subs more.

Guilds take the path of least resistance. If you aren't geared for the newest content, they won't take you. So if you joined late, or took too long to hit the cap, no guild will take you. So you quit because you have no endgame.

[rda]

Only it does not work, because the problem is not WoW - it's MMOs in general. People no longer like to commit that much to a game.

Please point me to a successful game doing something else. Guess what, there aren't any at all.

What the heck is a wow-themed app?

From the end.

What could be a WoW-themed app for consoles? An app that let you do pet battles, for example.

There's no shortage of games that do something else. Many are quite successful. GW2, for example. Or LOL, if you want an example of a game that started after WoW and still captured more players. Who said Blizzard couldn't do arenas - or even a game that is based on WoW and is connected to WoW, similarly to the pet battles app above - that would tick many of the same strings as LOL battles do, eh? Yeah, right, they are trying to do this now. Well, they are slow. That's what I have been saying.

Your "it doesn't work" is similarly false. It does work.

In sum, yes, it's Blizzard. They could, but they didn't. The sub losses are on them and them only. There are always external factors, this doesn't change anything.

[gamingmuscle]

I will tell you guys something. Players are not wrong, they can't be wrong, they are infallible because they are customers. Blizzard is not wrong, Blizzard is smart but Blizzard is not infallible because Blizzard is not a customer. We need to be very sober to draw a line where Blizzard has done to WOW. WoW was excellent and is good. The only problem here we have is that some experienced players are not satisfied with current content. Because the actual playable content is NOT AS GOOD AS IT WAS. Now, do I make myself clear？ Yes, we demand a faster cycle in PVE but no exactly the way we see in this patch now. Now THIS GAME IS NOT REPETITIVELY PLAYABLE or otherwise people would't expect next expansion so eagerly. In short, this game doesn't stand playing as it did before. So, you know what? The only thing we need to solve here is how to make this game last that everyone won't get bored until Blizzard release next expansion.

First, the Customer can be very very wrong. Being the customer doesn't grant anything special.

The rest of your opinion I completely disagree with. I feel the content is much better in many aspects.

[Deleted]

The 2 main reasons for this are pretty obvious:

1) They WANT players to see their content, it must have sucked for players buying TBC and not killing Illidan.

2) Progressing from start to finish was a long process and especially with attunements many guilds got stuck in T4 or T5 and had their players poached by the best guilds.

You're forgetting the best reason why Blizzard stepped away from that design philosophy. Less than 1% of the players got to see Naxx in Vanilla, let's not get started on the number of people that actually completed it.

Now, I reached Naxx in Vanilla and I feel it's an incredible accomplishment, but I don't think it's best for the game in the long run. You can't deny people content and certainly not when raids are tied in with lore. Hard modes are a better way to keep the hardcore players satisfied.

Also, the biggest reason why WoW is losing subscribers is due to the age of the game. Not just the graphics are outdated, but design philosophy and game mechanics as well. People are leaving because there are better and newer alternatives, games that are still fresh and unexplored, graphics that are better and game mechanics that are less clunky.

WoW had a good run, and will continue to exist for a good few years to come, but it won't be the shining example anymore. And why should it? People should stop trying to revive WoW, it won't happen, just accept its fate.

[Arbs]

As a casual player, I think most of the "dedicated gamers" have grown up, gotten married, had kids, moved on, etc. There is no bringing WoW back to the height of it's popularity. That's like trying to make the WWE as popular as it was when a young Hulk Hogan squared off against Andre the Giant. Times change, games change, and things evolve. There is no amount of change which could reverse time. You don't need a new tier design, you need a Flux Capacitor.

This paragraph alone, speaks the truth. Everything eventually grows old & people move on, I remember being a huge WWF / WWE fan growing up, now I hardly watch it as my favourite WWF/WWE Super Stars are no longer around.

It would be cool if we could stop time & continue to play the era we love, but that is the part of life everything grows old & eventually being seperate is a part of that cycle of life. Just memories are the best thing to hold on too.

[gamingmuscle]

Please note that in every single item you brought, Blizzard are in position to influence the situation heavily.

Other games on the market? Do a better product.
The game is old? It is you (Blizzard) who are keeping it "old" by sticking to the same old mantras ("raid or die", for one).
People are attracted to consoles? Do a WoW-themed app for consoles???

WoW is losing subs due to Blizzard making poor decisions and due to them being SLOW.

"Oh, mommy, they don't buy my horse rides anymore, they all drive cars now..." And - "That factor was nonexistent back in earlier days." Pathetic.

The game is old because it is built on a 10+ year old engine. It can only do so much. To really do something new, you would need to re-build the game. And This being blizzard that would take at least 5 years.

They are losing some subscriptions to their decisions...sure, but it is pure speculation if you say its the majority of their churn.

They have always been losing a large number of players....during the "golden" years they were churning what an average of 5-7million players a year (which is insanely high churn BTW)....only they were adding like 7-9million a year. No idea what modern account acquisition looks like. Churn might be way down volume wise...but adds down even further.

[judgementofantonidas]

It's true though, most players don't clear current content raids

so there is proof positive that there is plenty left for them to do.

[Wilian]

When your strategy is to make 99% of your content obsolote so everyone gets to see that 1% it's bound to have some blowback on your face.

[Osmeric]

Then explain why people stuck around in Vanilla / TBC if they had nothing to do. The absolute biggest growth was in this period, but if the players had nothing to do in the game, why would they stick around for 4 years?

A lot of them didn't stick around. Subs were growing, but that doesn't mean people weren't leaving.