Something I'd like to see for WoD Shadow AoE

[Graan92]

Personally I would greatly enjoy a usage for shadow orbs in the aoe rotation. This type of spell will play even more heavily with the Divine Clarity talent at level 100 due to the spec not revolving around multi-dotting. Even in the dot spec builds an aoe spender for shadow orbs would be helpful. Although it might not be numerically required, I think that a build/use for the orbs in aoe would add some variety to the rotation. (I personally get tired of just sear spam for large packs). There are a few ways i could see this orb spender being created as.

1. Shadow Word: Madness- This spell would work like a shadow prayer of mending that either places a DP style dot (albiet slightly weaker) on a target and then bounces to another target with its first tick on down the line until out of charges like mending. Or it is placed on its target and detonates for a burst dmg and then bounces doing the same thing.

2. Psychic Pulse- This spell could either be a targeted or ground targeted splash dmg explosion.

In order for this to work we would have to be able to gen shadow orbs easily during the aoe rotation. Obviously we could just add mindblast, but i was thinking that it would be better to have mind sear function like arcane explosion. If mind sear strikes 3 or more targets it has a chance per tick to grant a shadow orb. For both Divine Clarity and regular build priests this would give a consistent gen of orbs for large pack fights. For cleave style boss fights this would allow for an aoe spender of orbs for both Spriest builds. These are just my thoughts on an idea that I would like to see happen for an Spriest. No expectations or numbers thoughts being put into this. Just opinion based.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Shadow Word: Madness

I so wanted to post a joke here, but it's so obvious I now feel bad.

[Calamari]

Love the idea of a shadow orb aoe "finisher"! It's something I feel as well is sorely lacking from the shadow priests aoe arsenal, as well as an aoe shadow orb generator. Having Sear generate orbs as you suggested would be a great way to go about this.

2. Psychic Pulse- This spell could either be a targeted or ground targeted splash dmg explosion.

Remember the Shadow Crash spell that General Vezax used in Ulduar? Wouldn't it be fricking awesome if we could lob a slow moving spinning shadow mortar like that through the air that explodes for massive damage once it strikes its destination? It could consume 3 shadow orbs to cast, require good aim and timing to maximize its damage, both which would add at least a little bit of a higher skill cap to the shadow aoe rotation.

Anything really to add some more depth to the mass-aoe rotation of shadow priests, I agree that Mind Sear spam is just plain boring and undemanding and we've been doing that since WotLK.

[Yvaelle]

Love the idea of a shadow orb aoe "finisher"! It's something I feel as well is sorely lacking from the shadow priests aoe arsenal, as well as an aoe shadow orb generator. Having Sear generate orbs as you suggested would be a great way to go about this.



Remember the Shadow Crash spell that General Vezax used in Ulduar? Wouldn't it be fricking awesome if we could lob a slow moving spinning shadow mortar like that through the air that explodes for massive damage once it strikes its destination? It could consume 3 shadow orbs to cast, require good aim and timing to maximize its damage, both which would add at least a little bit of a higher skill cap to the shadow aoe rotation.

Anything really to add some more depth to the mass-aoe rotation of shadow priests, I agree that Mind Sear spam is just plain boring and undemanding and we've been doing that since WotLK.

I suggested that a few months back as a replacement to Mindbender, with Mindbender becoming baseline from Shadow That would give us a multidot (FDCL), a single target (Insanity), and an AoE option (Shadow Crash) in that tier. Part of the problem with Mindbender is that it has the same niche as Insanity - they are both single target spells.

With that said, I couldn't fathom losing Mindbender, he's so adorable and way better than stuipd Shadowfiend ><

Baseline Mindbender would also be a single target buff to Shadow, of course

[kardacz]

I know it's probably too much to ask, but in my opinion Mindbender, Divine Insight and Twist of Fate should be baseline.
This would give Shadow Priests a better dps cooldown, an orb generator that's not tied to a talent and a reasonable execute.

As for our AOE since we already do not use orbs during that time how about going the other way. Mind Seer damage is increased by let's say 5-10% for each Shadow Orb banked. This would require to stack orbs for moments where our aoe is needed and then after all is said and done we'd be able to spend those orbs for our single target damage.

[Yvaelle]

I know it's probably too much to ask, but in my opinion Mindbender, Divine Insight and Twist of Fate should be baseline.
This would give Shadow Priests a better dps cooldown, an orb generator that's not tied to a talent and a reasonable execute.

As for our AOE since we already do not use orbs during that time how about going the other way. Mind Seer damage is increased by let's say 5-10% for each Shadow Orb banked. This would require to stack orbs for moments where our aoe is needed and then after all is said and done we'd be able to spend those orbs for our single target damage.

All good calls I'd support all of those changes, and I like the Shadow Orb banked idea for buffing Mind Sear

With that said, our Shadow Orb system does need to be made more robust - we have 1 non-execute Orb Generator, and 1 finisher - that's a pretty barebones system that screams to be fleshed out. One of the most obvious finishers they could add would be an AoE finisher.

I suspect the reason they didn't do it was because our level 90 talents are kind of AoE finishers already - so they felt it might be too good or something - but certainly after MoP we've seen Shadow is in no risk of being too good - so maybe WoD will bring it about

Maybe an ideal solution would be both a 5% per orb stacking Mind Sear buff, and also an AoE finisher - so you want to stack up orbs for searing, and then when the mobs start getting low - you want to burst them with the finisher (before they start dying off and your finisher hits fewer targets). That would require both preparatory awareness to bank orbs before the AoE phase - and also active awareness to anticipate the damage of your finisher within the remaining healthpool of the lowest mobs in the pack

That gives us lots to think about during AOE - sounds fun

[Deleted]

All good calls I'd support all of those changes, and I like the Shadow Orb banked idea for buffing Mind Sear

With that said, our Shadow Orb system does need to be made more robust - we have 1 non-execute Orb Generator, and 1 finisher - that's a pretty barebones system that screams to be fleshed out. One of the most obvious finishers they could add would be an AoE finisher.

I suspect the reason they didn't do it was because our level 90 talents are kind of AoE finishers already - so they felt it might be too good or something - but certainly after MoP we've seen Shadow is in no risk of being too good - so maybe WoD will bring it about

Maybe an ideal solution would be both a 5% per orb stacking Mind Sear buff, and also an AoE finisher - so you want to stack up orbs for searing, and then when the mobs start getting low - you want to burst them with the finisher (before they start dying off and your finisher hits fewer targets). That would require both preparatory awareness to bank orbs before the AoE phase - and also active awareness to anticipate the damage of your finisher within the remaining healthpool of the lowest mobs in the pack

That gives us lots to think about during AOE - sounds fun

Please stop talking, i'm starting to drool !
Seriously though, we all know blizzard isn't giving a shit.

[Graan92]

The shadow orb banking idea is certainly interesting, but ultimately i wanted to see the aoe finisher for two reasons. 1. I wanted the orb system to have more options in terms of an aoe finisher/ cleave fight alternative to DP, 2. I wanted something to mix into the rotation other than just sear spam. Even adding in mind blast to bank the orbs would cut down on the aoe output overall. If you were sitting on the orbs from the previous fight that would work, but that wont always happen.

[Deleted]

Just make Shadowfiend 1 minute and do same for healer. Balance the mana gain though. Add a minor Glyph of Mindbender for cosmetic purpose in addendum to the Sha glyph.

Edit to add:

Also add the option to have unlimited minor glyphs.

I suggested that a few months back as a replacement to Mindbender, with Mindbender becoming baseline from Shadow That would give us a multidot (FDCL), a single target (Insanity), and an AoE option (Shadow Crash) in that tier. Part of the problem with Mindbender is that it has the same niche as Insanity - they are both single target spells.

Would like to add to my post: SWI isn't movement friendly/interrupt-friendly. Mindbender will always do its damage. Also on heavy AoE where you cannot multidot, Mindbender is potentially the best choice.

[Deleted]

Have Mind Sear make the DoTs applied to your target deal the damage to everything in that radius. Remove the current effect obviously.
This would give Shadow more interesting AoE (imo) with the option to burst by applying Plauge. Maybe cap it at ~50% of the original DoT(s) damage.

Using plauge (or not) for this would be your "orb AoE option".


Downside I suppose, is that you wouldn't be able to target the tank, but i think you could work around that somehow.

[Deleted]

Have Mind Sear make the DoTs applied to your target deal the damage to everything in that radius. Remove the current effect obviously.
This would give Shadow more interesting AoE (imo) with the option to burst by applying Plauge. Maybe cap it at ~50% of the original DoT(s) damage.

Using plauge (or not) for this would be your "orb AoE option".


Downside I suppose, is that you wouldn't be able to target the tank, but i think you could work around that somehow.

This! That would make up for some of our movement issues aswell. I wouldn't mind not being able to target the tank at all since to me it gets rather boring to just spam mindsear on only the tank.

[Calamari]

Bump, tweeted the ideas to Celestion, hope we get a reaction from him. ^^ Shadow is more than overdue for some AoE tweaks and additions in WoD.

Another idea for shadow priest AoE, a shadow version of Hymn:

Dark Symphony
8s channeled cast
2min cooldown
-
A maddening cacophony assaults the minds of enemies within 20 yards around you, causing them to suffer ~30% spell power shadow damage over 10s. This effect refreshes and stacks each second up to 8 times (for a total of 240% spell power shadow damage over 10s after the last tick). The priest must channel to maintain the spell.

As a sort-of Starfall like AoE dps cooldown for shadow priests, with the difference of being dot based and having higher damage potential, but with the drawback of being channeled so one would have to time the use well.

[Juicebox]

I had this idea of a reversed Power Word: Shield for Shadowpriests.
We'd place it on an enemy instead, and it'd absorb any damage done from that target until the shield was broken.
Thoughts?

[Deleted]

I had this idea of a reversed Power Word: Shield for Shadowpriests.
We'd place it on an enemy instead, and it'd absorb any damage done from that target until the shield was broken.
Thoughts?

Don't see what it has to do with our AoE?

[Calamari]

I had this idea of a reversed Power Word: Shield for Shadowpriests.
We'd place it on an enemy instead, and it'd absorb any damage done from that target until the shield was broken.
Thoughts?

While it's a little off topic, think it's a great idea Juice and would be an incredibly interesting form of utility if Shadow had the ability to "suppress" another dps's damage output. For example:

"Suppression - for the next 10s your offensive spells and PW:S encase an enemy target in a dark shell, the shell absorbs damage they would have done to others equal to the ammount of damage done by the shadow priest, if the shell is not broken by the target within 10s they will suffer the remaining absorb as shadow damage over 3s."

It would be a unique form of utility with uses in both PvP and PvE, see a mage popping his Arcane Power and trinkets on a healer? Pop your own CDs and suppress the s*** out of them. Boss is about to go ape on the tank or raid? Suppression away.

On topic, it would be awesome if we had a utility CD that let us use AoE attacks to cripple a large number of enemies' damage output at key moments.

[Juicebox]

Don't see what it has to do with our AoE?

You're right, my bad. Just had to throw it out there cause I liked the idea of it.
On topic I don't care much for an aoe change. I wanted a chained Mind Flay fora long time instead of Mind Sear. But that aint gonna happen so meh

While it's a little off topic, think it's a great idea Juice and would be an incredibly interesting form of utility if Shadow had the ability to "suppress" another dps's damage output. For example:

"Suppression - for the next 10s your offensive spells and PW:S encase an enemy target in a dark shell, the shell absorbs damage they would have done to others equal to the ammount of damage done by the shadow priest, if the shell is not broken by the target within 10s they will suffer the remaining absorb as shadow damage over 3s."

It would be a unique form of utility with uses in both PvP and PvE, see a mage popping his Arcane Power and trinkets on a healer? Pop your own CDs and suppress the s*** out of them. Boss is about to go ape on the tank or raid? Suppression away.

On topic, it would be awesome if we had a utility CD that let us use AoE attacks to cripple a large number of enemies' damage output at key moments.

See, it's why I thought it sounded so nice. We're Shadowpriests. We should defend ourselfs in an offensive way! Instead of self shields when big damage is incomming, we should use an offensive ability to counter it!

The cooldown on an ability like this would have to be a bit longer than PW:S. But yeah, Shadow Word: Shield to the people!
Sorry for a bit of off-topic again, I'll show myself out!

[Deleted]

Yeah I know, intention was good, but we got threads about SP suggestions in general. Some great suggestions there, if we could centralize it would be great else we get overlaps.

What if Mind Flay on a SWP target had a chance to spread VT to targets affected by SWP. Its multidot and not really AoE/cleave but still.

[Anthas]

I think Mind Sear should apply a weaker SW:P to everything it hits. Maybe not the full 19s, but at least a few. Also, maybe if we have multiple DoTs up, we can get DP to cause them to do extra burst damage for a few seconds (it is a PLAGUE, after all). Right now, it just feels like a trigger to pull without anything exciting happening afterward.

Oh, and make Mindbender a permanent pet. I don't care if I lose a little bit of mana-regen. I don't care if his damage has to be nerfed (don't go overboard, Blizz). That right there would make me ignore our other glaring issues for a while.