Garrosh10N help and class help needed

[Slak]

I am partially plagiarizing from this post because it got good replies, so I apologize to that author in advance:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...lso-class-help

well we are at 100+ attempts and only seen p3 like 6 times. This is my 3rd post and am ripping my hair out. We started the night 1 tanking (guardian druid) 3 healing (resto shaman, disc priest, resto druid) 6 dps. We would get out of the 2nd intermission at 40%, not kill any axes, just burn boss and adds, then die. Swapped to 2 tank 2 heals, now that we move boss away empowered doesn't kill us and was hoping a new tank would help with adds. Dps was better the very first pull, came out of 2nd intermission at 32%, then went back up to 40% and 37% on next pulls. So there doesn't seem to be much gain, we need more dps.

Standing in purple was bad, has gotten better. Killing adds on top of ea other and being eaten by adds still sucks, dropping axes in the middle still sucks.

Please rip these logs apart, we have dps doing quite low numbers for their gear (in my opinion).

here is our best attempt from tonight with 2 tank/2 heal http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...=11213&e=11810

link to all attempts http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...pes&boss=71865

seriously though, any help is appreciated.

[Trubo]

I am partially plagiarizing from this post because it got good replies, so I apologize to that author in advance:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...lso-class-help

well we are at 100+ attempts and only seen p3 like 6 times. This is my 3rd post and am ripping my hair out. We started the night 1 tanking (guardian druid) 3 healing (resto shaman, disc priest, resto druid) 6 dps. We would get out of the 2nd intermission at 40%, not kill any axes, just burn boss and adds, then die. Swapped to 2 tank 2 heals, now that we move boss away empowered doesn't kill us and was hoping a new tank would help with adds. Dps was better the very first pull, came out of 2nd intermission at 32%, then went back up to 40% and 37% on next pulls. So there doesn't seem to be much gain, we need more dps.

Standing in purple was bad, has gotten better. Killing adds on top of ea other and being eaten by adds still sucks, dropping axes in the middle still sucks.

Please rip these logs apart, we have dps doing quite low numbers for their gear (in my opinion).

here is our best attempt from tonight with 2 tank/2 heal http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...=11213&e=11810

link to all attempts http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/y...pes&boss=71865

seriously though, any help is appreciated.

There is no need to 3 tank 10 Normal Garrosh as you'll be very stressed to meet dps checks. I'd be surprised if you could even push to phase 3 without getting Empowered Desecrates in Phase 2.

I'm assuming you guys are on US - Darrowmere. Unfortunately at this time I'm unable to actually look at their armories so can't critique performance based on gear. While I hope someone more familiar with WoL takes a look at this I can tell you that everyone in your group needs to practice grabbing the orbs in the Vision phase for Faith. Looking at your best attempt: no one ever got the buff in both visions and some people never got it, period. People need to be willing to hold off on running through an orb if no one else is around given how few there are on 10 man. At worst the people without the buff should be tanks and even then you'd want tanks to get it so that they can cheese the Annihilate for Vengeance and damage on Garrosh.

[Sonnillon]

Can you elaborate on what kind of tactic you use for the phases - stacking, spliting etc; which on of the tanks is on adds? Your guardians Savage Defence uptime is so bad (the boss melees hard and so do the adds in p1).

The most simplest way for this boss is 2 tanks, 2 healers, 6 DPS.

Our very first kill video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_Po4...tailpage#t=605 10:05
** We did BL on the pull and second time when we hit last phase, but since we can kill it now in less then 10 minutes we'll just BL in the end.

PHASE1

• Place 2 markers with a rough distance bit more the out edge of the middle circle. Your original "start point" for this strategy is the furthest marker from the Iron Star which will be killed.
• EVERYONE that means boss tank will stack on top of the marker. That way cleaving is easy for both melee and ranged, healing is simple and weapons will be placed on "certain" spots only.
• Have 1 tank on boss during phase 1, other tank fetching the adds and bringing them to stacking point. You have 3 druid who all can Typhoon the adds into Iron Star's fire to kill 'em.
• If a weapon lands on a marker you move to the other one, kill the old weapon off before the new one comes and move to the "clean marker" once you get a new weapon.
• Rinse repeat this until p1 ends. Make sure you use a raid walls/CD if you are on marker which is closest to the wall where the "alive" Iron Star will hit, as this is significant damage.

PHASE2

• Same stacking location for ranged and healers as in p1, BUT the tanks and melee will stay in middle area.
• If there is no raider who is classified as ranged in bosses melee, with 99% chance you will NOT get a weapon there.
• Make sure that your melee move out (both tanks can stay with CDs) and go to ranged stack when Whirling Corruption is coming (specially during empowered one). If they have a def. CD ready and tell the healers that they are staying on boss during Whirling then they don't have to move.
• Make sure that melee helps to interrupt the MC people (even if they need to move out of melee range)
• Your healers and raid needs to communicate for CD usage during Whirlings and Annihilates.
• In the transition realm make sure you get to boss as soon as possible:
  
  • Terrace: aggro adds, don't kill 'em, get to boss's platform and then kill 'em (NO stuns, snares as well). The orbs spawn from all of the adds, so make sure that as soon as someone has walked over a golden orb they won't walk over another
  • Split room - you will get to massive golden orbs, for each side - you NEED to walk over those as a group for all to benefit for it
  • Jade Temple (?) - again massive orbs, make sure you walk over those as a group (grp1 and grp2)
• When the adds spawn make sure that everyone takes 1 add (tank(s) can have couple) and brings them AWAY from the rest of the adds/raids, kills them away from the rest and returns to stacking points. Hit anyone who AoEs here.
• Keep killing the weapons.

PHASE3

• BL as soon as the phase has started.
• Assign a healer as stacking point as you will have to move as a group now.
• Stay away from the boss and GTFO from melee (if you are melee) when Empowering whirling is about to hit
• Make sure that your healer are in range of tanks and visa-versa. You need to move as one group now
• DPS moves from weapon location to a new one, tanks follow with boss to stay in range
• Interrupting MC is essential and everyone needs to help out on that
• When the adds spawn you have 2 options (we use the second one with kiting):
  
  • kill them as you do in phase2
  • have the second tank kite 'em around and NO ONE DPSs those

For the second option to work the tank who has boss when the adds spawns MUST NOT have any boss debuff stacks.

Other then that only I can comment on your guardian. His Savage Defence uptime is soooooo low. Specially if he gets the adds he needs to have his active mitigation up and boss melees hard as well. Due to for some reason I cannot see his armory.... So cannot comment on nothing else, gear etc.

[Deleted]

I can only assume your Prot Pala is tanking the adds? Since otherwise your Bear would be ripping the meters apart. Put the Bear on the adds and watch them melt. Don't bother with anything other than 2 tanks, 2 healers and 6 dps on this fight.

Don't know how good your gear is, but your dps does look quite low. Also, people failing at getting aggro on an add, well not much to say about that tbh. Just need to stay calm at that point and have the tank not currently on the boss help pick them up.

I briefly checked your logs and found an older log from a Normal kill we did. I can see, that your Rogue and Hunter are playing different specs than what our Rogue and Hunter are. Might wanna check, if they're playing the optimal spec.

This is our log from the last Normal kill we did. http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-v3...=13686&e=14000

You have a death to Whirling, that means there was either no CD like AM or healing CD or that the person dying wasn't stacking. You're going Resto Shaman + Resto Druid, don't you have a Hpala or a Disc Priest? A Disc would make things much easier with Spirit Shell on Whirling.

If you check healing done in our logs, you'll see the Disc Priest owning with absorbs.

Can't help you much in regards to where you drop the weapon tbh. You know to drop them on the markers, so if someone fails at that, well then you have a problem.

[Squirl]

I looked at your rogue on a lot of the longer attempts. He has pretty low SnD uptime and atrocious Rupt uptime. Those should both be very near 100% (with some allowances made for a fight like this). He's also excessively hard refreshing it, meaning he's not using Env for very long periods of time. His Env uptime is also extremely low (should be 50-80%). I'm not sure what he's doing with CPs if he's not spending them on Rupt or Env. Vendetta and SB usage is also a little low, but that's expected on this fight. This is minor, but he's using CT for some reason. Env+FoK is more damage. One last minor thing: he's not using Vanish/Prep for free Mut/Amb.

Your whole realm's armory is unavailable right now, so I can't check gear optimization. As an aside, if he has a good 2.6 weapon, Combat may be better for him. Though, he seems to be struggling a lot with one of the easiest specs in the game (Mut) and Combat is far less forgiving to poor play with a higher skill ceiling.

Other tips:

• In p1, he can CoS every Iron Star Impact and take 0 damage.
• In p2/3, he can CoS all but 1 tick of every Whirl and stay on the boss. He seems to be doing this to some extent, but he's still taking more ticks than he should.
• He should be the last person to take an orb on Terrace. He can roll Feint if he ends up not getting one and still take less damage than everyone else (assuming he's using Elusiveness—and he should).
• As Mut, he probably shouldn't damage MCs unless you really need him to. DP ticks for a ton and it looks like that caused a few deaths.

If he needs additional help, I suggest he make a thread on the rogue subforums. He can also PM me if he has any questions.

[Sonnillon]

I can only assume your Prot Pala is tanking the adds? Since otherwise your Bear would be ripping the meters apart. Put the Bear on the adds and watch them melt.

You don't need to rip 'em apart. Typhoon to Iron Star = Win; picking up the adds as bear is made hell'of'a'lot easier if you take few starting melee hits from the boss. Hunter's MD and concecration for each set is a very nice help on the adds, if they tend to be all around the place (speaking of phase1).

You have a death to Whirling, that means there was either no CD like AM or healing CD or that the person dying wasn't stacking. You're going Resto Shaman + Resto Druid, don't you have a Hpala or a Disc Priest? A Disc would make things much easier with Spirit Shell on Whirling.

What is this disc priest/hpala here, disc priest/hpala there thing.... Any healer can heal it if they're up to the task (shaman HC with no absorb healer seems perfectly fine as well).

This is our freshest Garrosh kill - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...m/healingDone/ ; our resto druid lagged and shaman has "issues".

They can have devo aura from prot; tranq+hotw from balance; bomb from rogue and the zone from DK. If those CD on top of the usual healer CDs are rotated properly then they shouldn't need any other healing class, and as long as people stack the shrooms and in rain, its perfect.

[Deleted]

You don't need to rip 'em apart. Typhoon to Iron Star = Win; picking up the adds as bear is made hell'of'a'lot easier if you take few starting melee hits from the boss. Hunter's MD and concecration for each set is a very nice help on the adds, if they tend to be all around the place (speaking of phase1).



What is this disc priest/hpala here, disc priest/hpala there thing.... Any healer can heal it if they're up to the task (shaman HC with no absorb healer seems perfectly fine as well).

This is our freshest Garrosh kill - http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/d...m/healingDone/ ; our resto druid lagged and shaman has "issues".

They can have devo aura from prot; tranq+hotw from balance; bomb from rogue and the zone from DK. If those CD on top of the usual healer CDs are rotated properly then they shouldn't need any other healing class, and as long as people stack the shrooms and in rain, its perfect.

Maybe it's just me, but why would you let an Ironstar go through, if you don't have to? It's extra damage on the raid for no reason - assuming you have the dps.

Healing wise, are you really going to argue, that Disc/Hpala in a combination with a throughput healer is not a better combination? Specially in light of their logs, where people were dying to Whirling......

Sure, I could bring a Resto Druid and a Resto Shaman to a Normal Garrosh kill and it wouldn't matter the slightest. But I'm not the one having issues keeping people alive during Whirling.

You don't have to lecture me about how bosses can be killed without a Disc Priest, specially not seeing I already cleared the content. But you and I aren't the ones struggling on Normal Garrosh and since the OP asks for advice, I'm offering that. Nobody said Normal Garrosh can't be killed with the setup they have, I'm just pointing out, that it might be easier.

Smokebomb + AMZ won't work, when you get the adds, since people shouldn't be stacked up at that point.

Again, I was offering advice, the fact that you don't agree, doesn't make it wrong though.

[Slak]

It sucks that since darrowmere merged with windrunner our armories are down making this tougher to analyze.

Looking at first reply we 1 or 2 tank, never 3 tank. Will check logs to see who is getting buffs. The split room blows.

We are using the strat described in 3rd post, but after 2nd intermission we stopped killing axes to push p3 faster. i think we will give up on that, prolong the phase to have more room. Am concerned we will get 3rd intermission tho.

Is it normal he heals for 10% during intermissions? And we only take 10% off his life? And that we come out of 2nd intermission at the 40% range?

We sat our disc priest when we went down to 2 heals, will try her on Sunday.

Bear tank is supposed to be on adds, prot pally is aoeing and pulling off her.

Will talk to rogue and guardian, any other advice appreciated. Am open to anything at this point, we need more dps for sure.

[Jester Joe]

Maybe it's just me, but why would you let an Ironstar go through, if you don't have to? It's extra damage on the raid for no reason - assuming you have the dps.

You mean like kill both adds on the walls and have no Iron Stars? Why would you do that though, when it causes 2 dps to have to go off of Garrosh then, and then you have to actually put some work on the adds? The damage on the raid isn't that huge, healing rain can easily heal that up.

[Slak]

You mean like kill both adds on the walls and have no Iron Stars? Why would you do that though, when it causes 2 dps to have to go off of Garrosh then, and then you have to actually put some work on the adds? The damage on the raid isn't that huge, healing rain can easily heal that up.

ya p1 is fine, as long as a tank doesn't die. We kill one engy, let iron star eat the adds, we are stacked on opposite side and take little dmg. p2 and 3 suck, in particular the 40% after 2nd intermission.

On our one clean p3, he healed to 29% isn't is supposed to be 25%?

[Blackmist]

You probably need to up your DPS so you only get one group (at the most) of adds from Empowered Whirling Corruption. The preferred amount is zero, but you might need more gear for that. Most recommend 2 Tanks and 2 Healers.

If your raid's skill level doesn't allow for that, then your chances of actually handling the adds is probably low as well. Everyone scatters, the axe lands somewhere bad, people get cut off, and the MCs take over the raid. It's a complete clusterfuck. If you can handle one set reasonably well, then just aim for that. Increase DPS by any means necessary, which sadly for some guilds will involve waiting for Blizzard to nerf it.

[Slak]

You probably need to up your DPS so you only get one group (at the most) of adds from Empowered Whirling Corruption. The preferred amount is zero, but you might need more gear for that. Most recommend 2 Tanks and 2 Healers.

If your raid's skill level doesn't allow for that, then your chances of actually handling the adds is probably low as well. Everyone scatters, the axe lands somewhere bad, people get cut off, and the MCs take over the raid. It's a complete clusterfuck. If you can handle one set reasonably well, then just aim for that. Increase DPS by any means necessary, which sadly for some guilds will involve waiting for Blizzard to nerf it.

Hold on, we start getting empowered right after the 2nd intermission, which means we have to deal with them all the way down to p3, then again in p3 so that's what 5-6? Am going from memory not logs, may be more.

[Jordaen]

Looking at your healers on the attempt you linked, starting with the shaman.

Your shaman used healing surge an absurd amount ;_; healing surge is only for emergencies, and he's better off casting something else most of the time. A few surges are okay, 49 is not. His riptide uptime is beyond low. Since you can technically have it on 3 people at once for a few seconds, the uptime should easily be 100%, preferably with one on each tank. He used ascendance only ONE time on a nearly 10 minute fight. He could have used it 3 times. He only used his synapse springs twice, and that is a one minute CD sooo it should have been 8 or 9. He only used Unleash Life 11 times. You're supposed to use UE right before every single healing rain. The timing on the CDs is nearly perfect and there's no reason not to.

Your druid is using Incarnation on this fight where SotF would probably be better suited to the damage. This fight isn't really cut into nice little slices where you can use big CDs for things. Since the amount of whirlings, adds et al varies on your dps you don't really want to sit on your Incarnation CD while you wait for a time to use it. SotF is able to be used throughout the fight except for the very beginning where there's no AoE. He only used incarnation twice when it could have been used 3 times. His lifebloom uptime is abysmal at 38%!! It absolutely needs to be 95% or higher especially in 10 mans. Lifebloom leads to Omen of Clarity procs which leads to free regrowths, and who doesn't like free regrowths? He only used swiftmend 18 times and it could have been used 39.8 times. He isn't using SotF so this isn't entirely bad, but you should be using swiftmend nearly on CD regardless because it's a cheap, instant, strong heal for a tank or dps that's dipping and it's vastly preferred over using regrowth to get someone up. He only used Nature's Vigil one time ._. it's a 1.5 min CD sooooo it should have been used like 6 or 7 times. If you're going to take that talent you HAVE to make sure to use it, otherwise just take HotW and forget about it except every other tranq. They didn't even use innervate and since you guys are dying, I'm going to imagine your druid has way too much spirit or is simply not proactive enough. Druids cannot be reactive (as in, we have to have hots out before the damage hits, not after).

the moral of these stories are that your healers need to tighten up their CD usage and remember to hit buttons in the right order (UE -> HR for shaman).

[Art3x]

:snip:

Started my own thread

Logs for best attempt

[Slak]

I do not want to derail your thread

So make your own? How is this not derailing it?

[Frost1129]

DPS wise your mages could be putting out a lot more damage. Both have low RoP uptimes (for the arcane mage) or low invoker's energy uptimes (for the fire mage). Arcane mage definitely needs to work on his mage bomb uptimes too.

Arcane is honestly a pretty difficult spec to play if you are not committed to perfecting your positioning with RoP and use of Ice Flows. If he can't pull his number up, go frost. It's easy and still does good damage

[Art3x]

So make your own? How is this not derailing it?

Point taken, my apologies.

[Deleted]

You mean like kill both adds on the walls and have no Iron Stars? Why would you do that though, when it causes 2 dps to have to go off of Garrosh then, and then you have to actually put some work on the adds? The damage on the raid isn't that huge, healing rain can easily heal that up.

Well the engineers have very little HP and can be killed extremely fast. No need to worry about knocking adds back either. But I guess it's individual what you chose to do. Personally I find it annoying and having the tanks cleaving down everything has never been an issue on Normal. Even on Heroic, most times the adds are almost dead, when the Ironstart rolls in.

[Slak]

Point taken, my apologies.

No worries, this boss is making many of us crazy. Now, how we do we kill it sunday

[Trubo]

Well the engineers have very little HP and can be killed extremely fast. No need to worry about knocking adds back either. But I guess it's individual what you chose to do. Personally I find it annoying and having the tanks cleaving down everything has never been an issue on Normal. Even on Heroic, most times the adds are almost dead, when the Ironstart rolls in.

It's not the Warbringers that I find an issue but the Wolf Riders. An Iron Star will bring a full health Wolf Rider positioned correctly to 10%ish; I'd rather take easily healed raid damage so that less time has to be spent on the Wolf Rider and more time can be spent on Garrosh to push Phase 2 faster.