[Boomkin] So, what opener should I use?

[Deleted]

How do you get 2 seconds less of buffed starfall if CA also buffs starfall?

As Lunar Eclipse doesn't necessarily last 15 seconds, probably less than that, you won't have full 30 seconds of eclipse. Graphical explanation:
http://i.imgur.com/IIRM2l1.jpg

[Aboubacar]

the way I see it, popping ca the first 2 seconds of the pull is like gambling. Purified Bindings is notorious for not proccing straight away even with mushrooms down and all that. I've seen several people state they spam wrath until their trinkets proc lol, why not just open in lunar, hit CA at the last second of the first proc to expire? You're going to use the entire lunar bar or be left with 20 energy anyway.

[Rytard]

Depending on cast time and travel time, you actually lose a good chunk of starfall on the prepull. Just tried a target dummy and I think I lost about 2-3 seconds of starfall due to casting wrath and it's travel time. After the full opener, starfall actually ended within a few tenths of a second of CA finishing. Starting to split hairs, but it looks like trying the CA/Solar opener, I lost 1-2 full seconds of starfall, let alone buffed starfall (under the effects of some form of Lunar Eclipse). Since CA only lasts 15 seconds, there's no way to fit two full starfalls in there, chances are you'll have about 6 seconds outside of CA, and another second or two until the next starfall.

[Tobedeleted123]

With your trinkets you should be opening pre lunar all of the time. With inc/hotw for every boss including single target, or so they say.

Even on protectors/dark shaman? Going solar seems so much more better there due to extremely buffed dots @ the beggining.

[Deleted]

Depending on cast time and travel time, you actually lose a good chunk of starfall on the prepull. Just tried a target dummy and I think I lost about 2-3 seconds of starfall due to casting wrath and it's travel time. After the full opener, starfall actually ended within a few tenths of a second of CA finishing. Starting to split hairs, but it looks like trying the CA/Solar opener, I lost 1-2 full seconds of starfall, let alone buffed starfall (under the effects of some form of Lunar Eclipse). Since CA only lasts 15 seconds, there's no way to fit two full starfalls in there, chances are you'll have about 6 seconds outside of CA, and another second or two until the next starfall.

Both openers lose Starfall hits on the prepull. I personally don't use wrath for proc-fishing, only mushrooms. As you said, with wrath travel time it just isn't worth it.

I just tried the Lunar opener again, 2 unbuffed starfall hits before you're in Lunar and 4 more after CA finished. And as I said, the Meta Gem Proc outside of CA isn't as useful, in fact it pushes your last Starfall out of CA.

The CA opener instead had 2 hits before CA, 3 hits after CA and 2.5 seconds of downtime without starfall. By the time I'm out of CA none of my trinkets were still running. (note: I don't have immerseus trinket. shitty rng. It would have been the only one running, together with prepot)
So the argument "you lose all your precious buffs with that downtime between your eclipses" has to be differentiated:
You lose the Immerseus trinket buff and prepot for about 5 seconds as you won't be in Eclipse. Everything else would probably be gone anyway. Number of your starfall hits won't change. You get one more buffed Starfire or SS inside of CA because of Metagem and you will get 20 more Energy out of your Lunar Eclipse as you won't have to hit CA early.

Now I cba to do the math for this right now and I don't even know if I forgot something or if this comparison would be too simple.
But I think the solution for the question which opener is better depends on if the two more SS/SF outvalue the 5 seconds of downtime.

[Glurp]

Lunar opener in 5.4 is really only for undergeared people without the Meta gem or people who are near BiS and are able to leave their first Lunar Eclipse before their procs expire. Being a Troll for the faster Starfire casts with Berserking in the first Eclipse also has a lot to do with it.

[Tobedeleted123]

Lunar opener in 5.4 is really only for undergeared people without the Meta gem or people who are near BiS and are able to leave their first Lunar Eclipse before their procs expire. Being a Troll for the faster Starfire casts with Berserking in the first Eclipse also has a lot to do with it.

So for me (560 ilvl with 1 rppm trinket and a meta) - solar, no matter the fight?

[Deleted]

So for me (560 ilvl with 1 rppm trinket and a meta) - solar, no matter the fight?

On the following bosses I would use the Lunar opener (mostly from normal mode perspective as I don't raid currently):
(Malkorok if you gather in a specific point at the start and have a long way to your designated spot. Not sure if it is actually better, it just feels safer that way.)
Spoils to have your CA DoTs for the adds of the mogu/mantid crates, not for the pandaren ones.
Garrosh to have your CA DoTs for the spawning adds and weapon.

[Cybb]

The Solar Opener does the most damage, but has the highest potential to also suck. Trinkets that can take their time procing (Binding of never procing on pull), will sometimes make you angry, and your damage reflect it greatly.

Even with the trade-off, Solar is just better ATM (Trinkets and meta up for entire duration of CA, rather than just the start). If you want to be safe, just use pre-lunar.


If you want to be a man, Go Big and Go Solar - Cybb™

[Glurp]

The Solar Opener does the most damage, but has the highest potential to also suck. Trinkets that can take their time procing (Binding of never procing on pull), will sometimes make you angry, and your damage reflect it greatly.

Even with the trade-off, Solar is just better ATM (Trinkets and meta up for entire duration of CA, rather than just the start). If you want to be safe, just use pre-lunar.

If you want to be a man, Go Big and Go Solar - Cybb™

Lunar actually has the highest potential to suck. If your RPPM procs happen on first Starfall tick then you don't get enough SS procs to exit Lunar before your procs expire you are either going to doing a complete CA with 0 procs or you're going to be clipping your first Eclipse so early that it's going to ruin your DPS.

I experimented with the Lunar opener a lot but I really don't see it being a sizable increase. Sure it has the highest potential DPS if the stars align (no pun intended) but it also can be absolutely terrible. Considering the duration before using CA is just as important as CA itself there there is a larger window for something to go wrong (Juggernaut Ricochet, Malkorok add, etc) and once you miss a GCD you're going to be on the floor crying. There was some talk and napkin math on it a while ago and a lot of people have seemed to blindly swap to the Lunar opener since without actually knowing what they're doing.

[Droodpile]

573 ilvl here and I don't see much of a difference on either opener really for single target.... Lunar opener sucks with bad RNG, CA opening feels a little more consistent to me.

[lappee]

The real difference between the two openers is that solar opener uses procs way more efficiently than lunar. That is the reason why its mostly better (sure, RNG can play its role and specific fight tactics can differ the results)

[Cybb]

Welcome back Lappe!