Thread: Mage Resources

  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Babylonius's Avatar
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    Mage Resources

    I can understand if this thread gets locked because there are tons of posts asking/giving help. In the Monk forums we've run into the problems where the guide(s) are not maintained up to date with the most recent theorycrafting. This results in people getting bad information or not reading anything because you have to read 100 pages of a thread to get the up to date information.

    My question is, before I dive into the guide threads about Mages, as I've recently picked mine up again now that my Monk doesn't need anything outside of raids, how up to date are the main portion of the guilds (ie the first post)? Are they maintained, or is there another resource that provides up to date information?

    I am used to being at the front of theorycrafting as I am with Monks, so I don't want to be using bad or old information if I can avoid it.
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  2. #2
    Welcome to the Mage community, in which to the best of my knowledge:
    -Theorycrafting (with maths and stuff) only exists for Frost.
    -Arcane has a decent Simcraft and "practicecraft".
    -Fire only has "practicecraft".

    Just check Icy-veins and then check the last 10 pages of each thread and you should be fine for most situations.

  3. #3
    Field Marshal johnprescott's Avatar
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    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...Advanced%29V-2


    Akraen does an amazing up to date frost guide that's very advanced in terms of MMO guides.

    however for fire and arcane you'll just have to scour mage forums or the guide threads.
    maybe check in with some high ranking players.

    anyway, off back to the house of commons.

  4. #4
    Vykina, method's fire mage, is very active on Method's Forums. The fire mage thread is nearing 300 pages, and he's pretty good about answering questions about any mage spec/strats/etc.

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  6. #6
    Arcane and Frost guides are both up to date. Akraen's guide even goes deeper to prove all the things we are saying. Fire sadly has not been updated for a while, but Fire is pretty much the same as it was at launch, minus Combustion doing far less damage.

    As for theorycrafting, we don't really do that here.. Fire doesn't really need it at all as the spec is as simple as it can be and Frost has Akraen's guide. As for Arcane, there are some posts in the last 10-20 posts of the guide that go deeper into things, but if you follow the guide, you should be at steady footing already.
    Last edited by mrgreenthump; 2014-01-15 at 09:45 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Akraen View Post
    Start paying me and I'll do arcane and fire the same as I do frost
    How about I pay you in "not bans" ^.^

    But in all seriousness, if you ask on the fore thread you'll get an answer from someone who knows what they are talking about (vykina and ataxus stop by here on occasion), ask in the frost thread and you'll likely get kuni or akraen answering, both are heavy into theorycradtong for frost, ask in the arcane guide and myself or cycobi will likely answer you, or pm any of these people and you will likely get a very accurate and informed response. There are many other knowledgeable regulars and seldom posters who know their stuff around here. Just remember, just cuz the math isnt posted, doesnt mean it wasn't done

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    Bloodsail Admiral Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    How about I pay you in "not bans" ^.^

    But in all seriousness, if you ask on the fore thread you'll get an answer from someone who knows what they are talking about (vykina and ataxus stop by here on occasion), ask in the frost thread and you'll likely get kuni or akraen answering, both are heavy into theorycradtong for frost, ask in the arcane guide and myself or cycobi will likely answer you, or pm any of these people and you will likely get a very accurate and informed response. There are many other knowledgeable regulars and seldom posters who know their stuff around here. Just remember, just cuz the math isnt posted, doesnt mean it wasn't done
    Yeah that's what I figured, thank you. I just didn't want to read the guide stuff as an intro if it was outdated. I'd hate for my foundation of knowledge on how to play my mage be based on wrong info.
    14/14H WW/BrM Monk | Armory | EPeen | WoWHeroes | Ascent | WoWProgress

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa
    Just remember, just cuz the math isnt posted, doesnt mean it wasn't done
    That's something I loved about being a Maintankadin and the forum http://mainktankadin.failsafedesign.com , Theck (www.sacredduty.net) did loads and loads of theory crafting with the formulas etc for everyone to see. People could also comment and ask questions about it, what also attracted skilled people, which made the Paladin tank community even stronger.

    Sometimes it is hard to trust someone from just 'personal experience'. Isn't it a good idea to start this all with the Mage Community?

  10. #10
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voltaa View Post
    How about I pay you in "not bans" ^.^
    I'M CALLING MOD ABUSE.

    OP, how in-depth are you looking to get with Mages? If you're planning on doing casual raiding (i.e., Normal), then you'll pretty much be fine with the current guides.

    While the Fire guide's OP hasn't been updated for Siege, the rotation never really changed to begin with. You still setup a Combustion, Pyro on Hot Streaks, etc etc. If you take one look at any thread with Akraen as the OP, you'll find a plethora of information on Frost; more than you'll probably need since Mage doesn't seem like it's going to be your main (and even if it is, well, plenty of useful information awaits you!)
    Arcane... Well... It's been updated for 5.4, but I've been so out of touch with Arcane that I'd rather not say whether it's up-to-date. I've tried it in Siege, but to no success, so I'll let someone more experienced handle that.

    In addition to that, any questions you have will be answered pretty much by the next day (at the latest) if you ask in the stickies. If it's not spec-specific, you can always make a new thread and someone will answer it pretty quick, too.


    Also, no, we don't do much in the ways of theorycrafting outside of Advanced Napkin Math (unless you're Akraen and it's about Frost).

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  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polarthief View Post
    OP, how in-depth are you looking to get with Mages? If you're planning on doing casual raiding (i.e., Normal), then you'll pretty much be fine with the current guides.
    Casual raiding is most of what I'll be doing since its my alt, but once we get H Garrosh down (just started him) our alt raids will become more frequent so I want to make sure I have more experience with my mage so I can take part in them.
    14/14H WW/BrM Monk | Armory | EPeen | WoWHeroes | Ascent | WoWProgress

  12. #12
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    Casual raiding is most of what I'll be doing since its my alt, but once we get H Garrosh down (just started him) our alt raids will become more frequent so I want to make sure I have more experience with my mage so I can take part in them.
    You have plenty of time to catch up then. Mage is one of the quickest classes to understand and be fairly good at, especially if you put enough time into research of the class

    Most of the MMO Mage community is also very friendly and eager to help those who are willing to learn. I will warn you that there are a few... angry/crazies on here though... Just ignore/report them though.

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  13. #13
    Just my Opinion on Guides... I am sorry if it is a bit harsh... but you can dump really all three guides which are sticky.... they just sum up, what the spells/talents say, so if you are able to read, they just sume up what common sense says... so if you have a brain, already are into theorycrafting (not even that, but got a clue of math...) the only guide to look at is Akraens frost guide... you can just skip the fother guides.... welll may be in those 100 posts in there, there is some nice info.... but the guides aren't updated with needed info....

    P.s. I'd really like some more in depth guides to to arcane and fire...
    Last edited by LI2Atronach; 2014-01-17 at 12:05 AM.

  14. #14
    Bloodsail Admiral Babylonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI2Atronach View Post
    Just my Opinion on Guides... I am sorry if it is a bit harsh... but you can dump really all three guides which are sticky.... they just sum up, what the spells/talents say, so if you are able to read, they just sume up what common sense says... so if you have a brain, already are into theorycrafting (not even that, but got a clue of math...) the only guide to look at is Akraens frost guide... you can just skip the fother guides.... welll may be in those 100 posts in there, there is some nice info.... but the guides aren't updated with needed info....

    P.s. I'd really like some more in depth guides to to arcane and fire...
    Thats largely the reason I asked the original question. Most of the guides on MMO-Champ, or elsewhere for that matter, are rarely maintained constantly throughout a whole expansion. The writer changes class, stops playing, or just doesn't have the time or effort to do it.
    14/14H WW/BrM Monk | Armory | EPeen | WoWHeroes | Ascent | WoWProgress

  15. #15
    hm... so I guess you wont't find what you're looking for here, except for frost... and akraen will answer any questio very quick..... as I am not playing fire I never looked ionto vykinas guide at...... blood legion? method? wherever... I once looked onto the guides at manaflask.com.... but in my history of mages I just found.... use common sense and play that way..... none of the guide reall provides you with "if, then, else" taccs... or boss specific tactics... e.g. what to do if you invocer buff runs out, but a trinke like KTT just procced.... continue casting or evocate for buff? none of the normal guide here will tell you this, except you will reall search al of the 100+ post, which I would never do.... well the answer would be.. continue casting and evocate after the trinket procc ends... most of what I am doing (11hc down) I am doin cause I think it is ok... maybe I am not performing perfect, but only a mage whick wants to kill garrosh hc in 2013 would need to perform 95%++

    p.s. totally agree..... sadly those guide are neither maintained (e.g. most popular quiestions imported to guide) nor going into depth of how to play..... e.g. arcane.... 96% mana, 4 stacks of buff, no AM..... would you cast another AB or ABarr? and so on...
    Last edited by LI2Atronach; 2014-01-17 at 02:21 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    Thats largely the reason I asked the original question. Most of the guides on MMO-Champ, or elsewhere for that matter, are rarely maintained constantly throughout a whole expansion. The writer changes class, stops playing, or just doesn't have the time or effort to do it.
    You will have people answering to questions even when the guide itself ain't updated to date. Guides are hard to do so that everyone gets the info they need. Here we tend to do the "simple" versions just to avoid people asking too many silly questions. Plus if you really look at what a guide should do is that it gives you a understanding of how a spec should be played.

    The Fire guide, while outdated.. is the sort of guide we like to have here, gives you the introduction on how to play fire and the important CD's to use and how to use them. Now Fire doesn't have much of anything in it exept Combustion and Alter Time, so the guide looks deceptively simple, but it would be if up to date, everything you need as Fire to do great DPS.

    The advanced only guides while they are good for some people, are totally useless for people with different style of playing or some gear piece that throws everything out of line. Am not saying the Guides we have are perfect, just they are made by humans, usually just one.

    In the end you just got to make the decision, to make a guide that helps 99% of people or guide that helps the 10%.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LI2Atronach View Post
    P.s. I'd really like some more in depth guides to to arcane and fire...
    My question to you is, would you like the Fire guide as is, if it would be updated to 5.4? Not that it will probably get an update, but looking into WoD and 6.0 guides, it would give us more info on what people want in guides.

    Now to think I wanna hijack this thread for a bit on conversation on what you people want to see in guides.

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Babylonius's Avatar
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    I think every class should have a guide with the basic info for each spec with open discussion in the threads. When something new gets added it goes in an "Edit:___" above so that its easily viewable. There should also be a FAQ section or thread with questions that are asked regularly. As usual there should be threads where people ask others to look at their toon and tell them how to improve.

    I've tried to get these all on the Monk forums but its slow going getting them stickied.
    14/14H WW/BrM Monk | Armory | EPeen | WoWHeroes | Ascent | WoWProgress

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Babylonius View Post
    I think every class should have a guide with the basic info for each spec with open discussion in the threads. When something new gets added it goes in an "Edit:___" above so that its easily viewable. There should also be a FAQ section or thread with questions that are asked regularly. As usual there should be threads where people ask others to look at their toon and tell them how to improve.

    I've tried to get these all on the Monk forums but its slow going getting them stickied.
    We have both a "Help my DPS" and "Help my Gear" thread stickied.

    @MrGreen: a guide doesn't need to play your character for you which is what LI2Atronach seems to want. Basic information about CD management and rotation is there. All the advanced info is in the discussion we create. To be honest, no guide will be 100% correct bc practices change so much lately based on gear setups and stats. Unless its updated to cover every situation it won't reach 90%+ of people.

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