Level 90's for sale at the Blizz Store is a major step towards "pay to win."

[roahn the warlock]

I guess you are against character transfers, race changes, faction changes, and name changes too.

Actually, I am, paid at least. I always thought that was incredibly stupid to pay 25 dollars for a transfer that takes about a minute. So I can play with a friend.

[Theupsman]

Yeah, IDC if people can buy a lvl 90. I've already leveled everything to 90 now except for a hunter, which is at 60. I REALLY dont care to go through BC, WotLK, and Cata aaaaallll over again on the hunter. But I'm probably gonna do it anyway.

[roahn the warlock]

You have no basis for your assertion that they would spend dev resources revamping the heirloom system just to abandon it.

What do you mean abandon? They are still usable up to 85? They just no longer take up bag space

[Aquamonkey]

Actually, I am, paid at least. I always thought that was incredibly stupid to pay 25 dollars for a transfer that takes about a minute. So I can play with a friend.

I thought you were all about the high barrier for the convenience of premium services. You are against "pay to skip", which is what a xfer is (you skip having to reroll on a new server). But are completely for "free to skip"?

[Deleted]

Because it's a false premise. Leveling is not horrid nor a flaw in the game. Buying 90s is not a 'fix' for leveling. It's a premium feature for people who don't want to level through that.

Following your logic, why isn't there a service for buying valor points? Leveling is progression, gearing at max level is merely the continuation of this progression.

[roahn the warlock]

I thought you were all about the high barrier for the convenience of premium services. You are against "pay to skip", which is what a xfer is. You skip having to reroll on a new server. But are completely for "free to skip"?

I don't see how that is a difference? Perhaps because of how WoW servers work?

Free to skip? Okay, everyone can do it. It is a free thing, it keeps the game even.

Pay to skip, is a nono, it makes the game uneven.

Hell give everyone unlimited free 90's I don't give a crap.

[CalamityHeart]

My question to people defending this clear pay to win direction the game is going:

If leveling is so horrid, and its a big flaw in the game, why is this an extra fee? If it's something the game needs, why do you need to pay a subscription+whatever an instant lvl90 is going to cost to fix it? Why is it even a choice? Makes as much sense as having an overtuned boss and needing a bought item to overcome it...

Answer this without ignoring my analogy, I want to understand your point.

Leveling isn't horrid, in and of itself. Leveling through five gates of tedious, nerfed, irrelevant, shredded-to-bits content, on the other hand... Especially if you have multiple characters, it gets old really fast. Obviously, many people feel this way, otherwise, Blizzard would see no reason to make this an option. Leveling is an essential part of any RPG, which is why the boost is only to 90, not to 100. No one is being allowed to skip anything meaningful or relevant. It's not pay-to-win. And it's not like your analogy. It's like having a leech on your neck that you can either rip off with your own power, taking you a lot of time, or paying to have it cut in half so it dies and lets go. Paying for it is not "win", it's "relief". And my analogy might not be the 100% best example on how to illustrate how people might see this feature, but it's the best one I could come up with, and I think it does its job well enough. *shrug*

[Gambit5555]

Well wait hold on. they can level through the whole game, they just won't level very fast.

Well your suggestion was to take away the regular leveling path, prevent people from even having the option, lower everyone's level down to what they were 5years ago, and make it where people either completely skip Outland and BC, or level through it while the quest are grey if they want to experience it and the original 1-60 zones. And this is a better option to you then proving people the option to buy a boost to 90?

[Aquamonkey]

What do you mean abandon? They are still usable up to 85? They just no longer take up bag space

I said abandon, not remove... They just added heirlooms that work to 100, FFS.

[Deleted]

I thought you were all about the high barrier for the convenience of premium services. You are against "pay to skip", which is what a xfer is (you skip having to reroll on a new server). But are completely for "free to skip"?

This is wrong. While certainly expensive (way too expensive) server transfers are not skipping rerolling because you are moving a character, not making a new one.

[roahn the warlock]

Well your suggestion was to take away the regular leveling path, prevent people from even having the option, lower everyone's level down to what they were 5years ago, and make it where people either completely skip Outland and BC, or level through it while the quest are grey if they want to experience it and the original 1-60 zones. And this is a better option to you then proving people the option to buy a boost to 90?

yeah, cause it is free. Free 90's are also okay. In a sub game

[Gambit5555]

yeah, but heirlooms don't cost 10 dollars (Oh god that's next isnt it)

- - - Updated - - -



premium in a sub based game... how about no

Yea, how dare Blizzard offer people premium options. Those people will take what Blizzard gives them and they'll be thankful. Or leave. Oh that's right, or they can leave

[Aquamonkey]

This is wrong. While certainly expensive (way too expensive) server transfers are not skipping rerolling because you are moving a character, not making a new one.

You skip having to remake that character and acquire all the stuff again...

[roahn the warlock]

I said abandon, not remove... They just added heirlooms that work to 100, FFS.

They did, yes. But does it increase leveling speed (Yes, I know the increased dmg will help) But by no %

[Khelek]

Wonder why we have all the threads about insert derp players who have no idea how to play their class. Buying a 90 is about as much work as leveling it seems these days. As in you don't really learn how to use your class correctly until around top level.

While it is true that leveling does not make one competent at their class, it does slowly introduce new abilities and this allows one to adjust as each new ability is unlocked. If you jump to 90, you have no clue what half you abilities are or how to use them. Sure you could go to noxxic or some other guide site, but getting a feel for each ability as it becomes available greatly enhances the situation understanding of each ability especially if they are not your standard rotation abilities (defensives, threat management, etc).

Still, since you really don't need those types of abilities to do LFR, I guess the instant 90 is ok. However, if blizz is worried about the people that do latest content in LFR and then unsub until the next patch, as they have indicated they are, then the instant 90 will only worsen that trend.

[Gambit5555]

important up to 85.

Ah yes, they clearly want to invest in a system they're not going to support anymore. Hell, they probably won't even have quest this next expansion either. They'll just boost everyone to 100 with heroic gear, they clearly don't believe in leveling. And they'll probably hide all the NPC models they are redoing under cloaks too. Because they like to invest current resources in stuff they don't support anymore

[roahn the warlock]

Yea, how dare Blizzard offer people premium options. Those people will take what Blizzard gives them and they'll be thankful. Or leave. Oh that's right, or they can leave

Why exactly is that the only option? If I don't like when a republican wins the white house. Is the only other option to leave the country?

You can ask for Quality of Life improvements, but I can't ask for Immersion improvements? or for them not to inculde this?

Very un american of you

[Aquamonkey]

Following your logic, why isn't there a service for buying valor points? Leveling is progression, gearing at max level is merely the continuation of this progression.

Leveling to the cap of a previous expansion is irrelevant progression, it doesn't affect anyone else and has an easily acquired end. Max level progression has no "end" and your power compared to other players is relevant.

And I don't see any difference with buying valor points. Just so long as you can't buy a higher cap.

[Deleted]

Leveling isn't horrid, in and of itself. Leveling through five gates of tedious, nerfed, irrelevant, shredded-to-bits content, on the other hand... Especially if you have multiple characters, it gets old really fast. Obviously, many people feel this way, otherwise, Blizzard would see no reason to make this an option. Leveling is an essential part of any RPG, which is why the boost is only to 90, not to 100. No one is being allowed to skip anything meaningful or relevant. It's not pay-to-win. And it's not like your analogy. It's like having a leech on your neck that you can either rip off with your own power, taking you a lot of time, or paying to have it cut in half so it dies and lets go. Paying for it is not "win", it's "relief". And my analogy might not be the 100% best example on how to illustrate how people might see this feature, but it's the best one I could come up with, and I think it does its job well enough. *shrug*

Don't take the "horrid" expression so literally, I exaggerated to make it obvious: Leveling is not a good experience for some, just like you described it. I admire your attempt at making it seem like it's not an advantage as it is a "relief" but using your own metaphor: If you're having a leech sucking your neck and see me slice it in half with a dollar bill, would you not think I'm in a better position relative to yours? Am I wrong to assume most people would?

[Gambit5555]

Following your logic, why isn't there a service for buying valor points? Leveling is progression, gearing at max level is merely the continuation of this progression.

Because at no point is leveling still considered progression in this game, especially below max level. No one is "progressing to 87" right now. There are plenty of people trying to catch up to 90, but no one is progressing below max level.