For people complaining about how mop and cata suck

[Ballantines]

You're probably circlejerking with a few fanboys then. Don't get me wrong, I really do like everything in Mists of Pandaria, except for PvP. PvP is worse than any expansion except for Cataclysm. World PvP is useless as a pure PvPer, casters will kill you within a single lockout, even though you're in max PvP gear, it's ridiculous. How they even fucked this up so bad is something I cannot understand. Yes, I do know how it got so bad, no I don't know why Blizzard fucked it up.

Wrath of the Lich King is by far my favorite, The Burning Crusade/Mists of Pandaria about the same and Cataclysm is by far the worst. This is all (mostly) from a PvP point of view, though. I did raid in every expansion, but except for TBC/WotLK nothing serious. I really do like the amount of content and availability of easier raid lockouts though, which is the only reason why I like this expansion.

Edit: The only good thing that spawned from that giant heap of shit called Cataclysm, was the start of Rated Battlegrounds, that's literally it.

The Dwarf wedding was pretty legendary.

[Resentful]

You must have missed terrace of endless failure, the 10x10 meter raid with less originality than Trial of the Crusader (at least that one had a general theme).

I didn't raid that :P thankfully.

[Aus Nate]

IMO, MoP didn't suck, it had an excessive amount of dailies at the start (yes I did ALL of them on 4 90's for awhile), While I dislike the whole troll crap they did, it wasn't a bad expansion, I quiet liked the panda's, the world bosses I liked.

Cata on the other hand, other than them wasting time redo'ing all the zones, it was a total waste of time, I miss the old zones, ability to just not need to fly everywhere.

Its not the community pushing for faster content its blizz themselves, they have a goal, and that's whats doing it.

[Deleted]

In every expansion, people have said that it sucks, Just leave them to it. Let them play a "sucky" game if that's how they see it.
to me, Every expansion has had its good points and its low points, but over all have been enjoyable at the time.

[Soikona]

If you think MoP was a bad xpac, you're just an idiot.

I can't really speak for PvP, but MoP had some of the best raids, they did a great job.

Can't really call someone an idiot because their opinion is different from yours...

[Araxie]

If you think MoP was a bad xpac, you're just an idiot.

I can't really speak for PvP, but MoP had some of the best raids, they did a great job.

MoP was a bad expansion. Come at me.


I personally did not enjoy it and thought it could of been TONS better.

[MrWolly]

Do you know how many papers I've written the night before and gotten A's on? Pretty much all of them.

[Deleted]

Cata was a let down for a few reasons, but Mists of Pandaria was the best expansion ever released. It contained more content in each patch than entire expansions have in WoW's history, and more content than other MMOs launch with.

Lol? You must be joking. MoP doesn't have a whole lot of content. Siege of Orgrimmar is patch 5.4.

You know which version had a lot of content updates? Vanilla. Naxxramas was released as patch 1.11!

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think I've heard anyone complain about MOP being a shitty expansion. All I've heard is how amazing it is.

MoP is worse than Cataclysm imo. Heck, I even enjoyed Cataclysm more than TBC.

[Zogarth]

I don't think I've heard anyone complain about MOP being a shitty expansion. All I've heard is how amazing it is.

MoP has been the worst expansion ever released. I switched from PVP in mid cata. PVP in MoP has been worse than ever. So yeah, MoP sucks. And all the raids were way too easy.

[Yousend]

Personally, I'm satisfied with MoP. Cataclysm is where WoW took a major hit in my opinion. Leveling was fun, I'm very happy with the 1-60 leveling, however the end-game content was rather boring. The shift in design into legitimizing both 10 and 25 men raids as end-game (LK 10m weren't legit end-game) is what killed raiding for the most part. 10m guilds were a lot prominent at the time and I believe they still are (I haven't checked the stats).

I personally have a major problem with 10 and 25m sharing the same content. Not an elitist opinion, I won't engage on whether 10m or 25m is harder. Rooms are designed around 25 people being in a raid, which I'm okay with, however the moment you enter that same room with only 10 people, the rooms instantly feel empty and very isolated. (From a tank's point of view)

I wish Blizzard would be able to scale down the size of rooms for 10m as the lack of people is very visible when boss rooms are designed around containing 25 people along with a boss... However I do understand the limitations of that.

That's my 2 cents, I understand some people might see this as a dumb argument, but that's how I feel and I'm sure many people feel this way.

[Dormie]

The reason for this is because Blizzard is getting rushed by fans who are complaining about how they are not releasing any content. If you want better content, our going to have to wait longer for it. Think of it as writing your final term papers for collage. You might be able to finish it in one day, but you wont be able put as much quality into it as you would if you had a week. SO STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT BLIZZARD TAKING SO LONG TO RELEASE CONTENT!!!!!

And this is why grinds are necessary. ACTUAL grinds, not the 'you can only get x amount of whatever per day' artificial grinds that Bliz uses now.

- - - Updated - - -

BC was best as far as far as being a true MMORPG goes. Cata/MoP are too carebear. Wrath had the best balance between both worlds, and is IMO the philosophy they should of stuck with.

[MW4Life]

Deathwing was a somewhat uninspired end boss, but other than that I really enjoyed Cata. MoP is good too, especially considering how much I love the Monk class. I have played since early BC and have enjoyed every expansion since then.

[Constraint]

If you think MoP was a bad xpac, you're just an idiot.

I can't really speak for PvP, but MoP had some of the best raids, they did a great job.

Convincing argument. I'll rethink my point of view entirely.

For myself, MoP's the second worst expansion, after Cata. Since Cata, for mine, butchered the living shit out of the old world, and turned leveling in to an awfully linear, on-rails experience, and because of the abomination which is Dragon Soul and the advent of LFR, I presume it'll always be my least favorite.

MoP however? It has some great points and some awful points, in my opinion. Raids were, as you say, rather well done. Probably the overall best raids I've seen since TBC (bugs aside, obviously - no PTR ftw, imo the surprise made up for the lack of testing). PvP has, by the opinion of many, never been worse. The removal of talent trees did more harm than good, for mine. I know, I know, opinions are like assholes. Leveling became the most boring it's ever been.

I think although they did a reasonable job with the zones, they're overall a little.. unvaried. Sure, the world's not the patchwork quilt of old, which could be construed as a positive, but in my opinion, the lack of variation is a big downer. I don't really feel much different when I go from Jade Forest to Krasarang. Sure, the trees change color slightly. Then Valley of the Four Winds. Everything's still green, just less trees. Kun-Lai at least has mountains. Then back to grassy plains, yet again. Then down to corrupted grassy plains. Then finally off to Eternal Blossoms, which is, big surprise, more grassy plains. Forgive me for feeling a little bored at this stage. Compare that to say, WotLK? Every single zone is blindingly unique. The only remotely similar zones are Grizzly Hills and Howling Fjord.

Also, remember that not everyone shares your fascination with Pandas. Many couldn't care less, but many kinda hate them. I'm a mixed bag - they're ok, but an entire expansion devoted to some random islands off in Africa with (to me) somewhat irrelevant threats didn't really pique my curiosity. Our thoughts have physical manifestations! Woooo! Careful guys, control your emotions!

[Noctredors]

If cata was worse than mop, then why did mop lose more subscribers? I think both expansions were horrible.

[Constraint]

If cata was worse than mop, then why did mop lose more subscribers? I think both expansions were horrible.

There are many legitimate answers to that, all of them unquantifiable - it's not really worth discussion, since none of the theories can even remotely be proven.

[mercutiouk]

As one of the however many who un-subbed during MoP - it's got NOTHING to do with the quality of the expansion. Mists did everything as right as it possibly could have (except, as mentioned, the PVP being kinda rough in a lot of places). Cata was a godawful expansion. Blizz are currently going in a fairly reasonable direction with things though.

However, after 7 years of WoW it's often a bit too much of the same for some people. There's a lot more competition on the market and the whole explosion of the PC indie scene has likely helped in pulling a decent number of folks away.

The folks who started this game in the their teens/early 20's are now getting a bit older and have more real life issues to handle and there's almost certainly a well known understanding of how toxic parts of the WoW community are. When you have folks leaving and little reason for new people to start playing (there's just MUCH more choice now. Regardless how good/well supported it is, do any of you have even the slightest interest in everquest or ultima online?), you'll have a decline in subs.

We're at the right sort of point for a new MMO to come in and make fairly decent impact if it can shake trying to appeal directly to WoW fans. I'll certainly be taking a look at Wildstar and TESO.

[Throne]

Cata was awesome in 4.0 and stunk after.

MoP had great. . . everything except new players had no desire to keep playing. Most people who started playing during MoP quickly got to 90, did LFR and were done with the game, in their eyes.

Cata and MoP real problem was in the loss of some 4.5 million players, which ruined a bunch of server communities and such. The reason isn't because people are leaving, its because new players aren't staying.

[Mystile]

Compared to Firelands/Ulduar/ICC/Black Temple/Sunwell they're average.

Firelands? The vast majority hate Firelands the most (behind ToC [which I enjoyed]) ICC? Sure, we liked it the first few months. What about the other nine? It lasted way too long; it was still good in terms of raiding content, just lasted too long. Black Temple? The temple of trash? After you killed Illidan a few times it was dreaded just as much as Hyjal.

The only raid this entire expansion that was "meh" (my opinion; Elegon was fun the first few times, floor drop wipes) was Mogu'shan Vaults. Heart of Fear had a vast diversity of bosses (graphics were bland and everything looks a lot like shit you just randomly kill in Dread Wastes).

If cata was worse than mop, then why did mop lose more subscribers? I think both expansions were horrible.

Oh, it's this really productive statement. Cataclysm was just not good after the initial patch. That drove people away and put a bad taste in a fair amount of player's mouths. Mists has been pretty much awesome, hit and miss in some places (pvp), but when you have a bad taste from the last year or so you're going to lose some of those ~6 years playing people no matter how much stuff you throw at them.

[Dormie]

Firelands? The vast majority hate Firelands the most (behind ToC [which I enjoyed]) ICC? Sure, we liked it the first few months. What about the other nine? It lasted way too long; it was still good in terms of raiding content, just lasted too long. Black Temple? The temple of trash? After you killed Illidan a few times it was dreaded just as much as Hyjal.
.

IDK where you heard that. Firelands was pretty well liked. Along with the others you mention other than ToC. Dragon Soul was the one people hated.

IMO LFR should replace heroic 5 mans, as in, LFR should have it's own separate dungeons just for it. Basically a 25 man 5 man. Leaving flex to be where you start doing the end game raids.

[Constraint]

IDK where you heard that. Firelands was pretty well liked. Along with the others you mention other than ToC. Dragon Soul was the one people hated.

IMO LFR should replace heroic 5 mans, as in, LFR should have it's own separate dungeons just for it. Basically a 25 man 5 man. Leaving flex to be where you start doing the end game raids.

I dunno, from the feedback I've read over the years, the general gist of what I've heard was that Firelands as a whole wasn't great besides Ragnaros himself - and I'd have to agree. Obviously I have no proof whatsoever of these claims, they're merely my observation. I also gathered that most people actually quite liked Tier 11, myself included, besides having to kill Onyxia for the 3rd time.

Your second point actually sounds quite hilarious. Obviously it'll never happen, but it is rather amusing to think about.