Heroic Thok + Holy

[Deleted]

I might be wrong, but isnt using J during HA an absolute fail?
HA also boosts the healing of your HoPo generators, so i don't see any reason to not use a HR-LoD-HR-LoD-HS... rotation...

Yes it boosts healing by 30% so using HR or HS is "better" healing wise. But if you have to move or something like this a J can come in handy. Its also less mana. For max HPS HR is better, especially if you have the cast time reduce procc.

[nightfalls]

Yes it boosts healing by 30% so using HR or HS is "better" healing wise. But if you have to move or something like this a J can come in handy. Its also less mana. For max HPS HR is better, especially if you have the cast time reduce procc.

Yup, or for Thok if you know you'll get kicked you can throw a J in as well. That said Haste universally lowers your execute times (for every ability you use) before 50% so there is nothing really special about its effect on HS and J - if anything, before 5.4 Haste was simply bad because it didn't lower those CD's, meaning your rotation would have to eventually include more HR.

[bouchbagfett]

I might be wrong, but isnt using J during HA an absolute fail?
HA also boosts the healing of your HoPo generators, so i don't see any reason to not use a HR-LoD-HR-LoD-HS... rotation...

Very little difference in output. Judge also puts your next HR at 1 sec which is handy.

[nightfalls]

Very little difference in output. Judge also puts your next HR at 1 sec which is handy.

Where are you getting 4.43 versus 6.00 execution times from? Personally I'd put it much closer to 4.0 than to 4.5. That said, thinking about this a bit more, a 3rd rotation is actually possible.

That said, for Thok himself in practice Judging is definitely possible to help avoid being locked out (as others have pointed out also good for movement).

[Deleted]

One thing about SH build with high mastery.. It was remarked mastery should be maxed. As more statements on the forum on what's best come without calculations, I tried that out. As far as I can tell maxing mastery isn't a game winner when it comes at the expense of int. On prev named HPal blogs it was already mentioned int is ahead by a little (so comes before mastery). I see most calculated benefits when having an optimized combination of SP & mastery. I also thought the outcome is heavily affected by how much overhealing is done. Based on this expectation I would guess max mastery would be best.. but how much sacrifice is acceptable when going to high mastery?

For instance 40k SP / 49 % mastery / 30 % haste / 22 % crit gave me same output as 48k SP / 37 % / 27 % / 25 %. I used 70 % overhealing, which I noticed in one of my fights (with 0 % overhealing the combination with highest spell power wins). The values for SP, mastery, haste and crit came from optimized gears and are not random, but for me realistic optimization goals at ~555 ilvl. Because I am expecting large amounts of overhealing in most fights, I will use a combination of 44k SP / 48% / 28 % / 24 %.
If it turns out to be much lower (20%) then I will respec to increase spell power at the expense of mastery (few %, never below 44-45%). At 40 % overhealing it doesn't make much of a difference, although the max mastery build (at the expense of too much SP) becomes considerably less optimal (for me behind by 9% in total HPS).

On the other topic of "fail" when using Judgement in my cycle at Thok it is simply to avoid being interrupted during my HA cycle by Thok (which would be "fail"). PS: thanks bouchbagette for showing its not "fail" by default.

[Deleted]

Ok, i might still be wrong as i play tank 99% of the time.
I would only use this HA-J rotation when i need my bubble/AM for something else. Otherwise i would always use bubble for HA+DivFav burst healing.
The calculation bouchbagette made, seems odd to me. Do you have the document available somewhere?
How does it look, when starting with HR? And how are the numbers for the total window of HA? Comparing a 4,5 sec window to a 6 sec window to make assumptions about an 18sec CD doesn't look ok for me.

[Deleted]

Ok, i might still be wrong as i play tank 99% of the time.
I would only use this HA-J rotation when i need my bubble/AM for something else. Otherwise i would always use bubble for HA+DivFav burst healing.
The calculation bouchbagette made, seems odd to me. Do you have the document available somewhere?
How does it look, when starting with HR? And how are the numbers for the total window of HA? Comparing a 4,5 sec window to a 6 sec window to make assumptions about an 18sec CD doesn't look ok for me.

Why would you ever start with HR when you pop HA? HS is much more better to start with and hope for infusion of Light proc and then you also get more HS fit into HA time frame which in turn results into more HP.

At least when I thought about it quickly.

[Deleted]

Why would you ever start with HR when you pop HA? HS is much more better to start with and hope for infusion of Light proc and then you also get more HS fit into HA time frame which in turn results into more HP.

At least when I thought about it quickly.

Simply answer: HR costs too much time without SH procs first..

[Deleted]

Simply answer: HR costs too much time without SH procs first..

I was talking about situation where EF i used. But anyway, same thing.

[bouchbagfett]

Where are you getting 4.43 versus 6.00 execution times from?

HS-LoD-HR-LoD is 1.0+1.0+1.43+1.0=4.43 sec. 1.0 is the GCD limit and HR is down to 1.43 sec with about 75% haste (Divine Favor + GoAK buffing haste).

With a HS-LoD-J-LoD-HR(Sh1)-LoD rotation they are all 1 sec GCD casts. So 6.0.

I ran with a base of 45% raid buff haste, but I also did it at 35% and 25% and it makes only a small difference in cast time because our buffs multiply with other raid buffs and Seal of Insight so it ends up GCD capping the spells anyway. The use of buffs actually reduce the value of haste.

[nightfalls]

HS-LoD-HR-LoD is 1.0+1.0+1.43+1.0=4.43 sec. 1.0 is the GCD limit and HR is down to 1.43 sec with about 75% haste (Divine Favor + GoAK buffing haste).

In practice, the average cast time will be much lower because HS will have a ~70%+ chance to critical hit, bringing HR down to 1.0 sec anyway (though you could only use J if your HS did not crit).

- - - Updated - - -

How does it look, when starting with HR? And how are the numbers for the total window of HA? Comparing a 4,5 sec window to a 6 sec window to make assumptions about an 18sec CD doesn't look ok for me.

He is comparing HPS. You are sustaining X HPS over 18 seconds, versus Y HPS over 18 seconds. If you do 33% more healing in the 6 second window than the 4.5 second window, both rotations are equal.

[Deleted]

I've used both on this fight and the numbers are usually pretty much the same or the difference is very small. However it's way more comfortable to use SH on this since your HR cast time is much faster you won't get silenced as often if you pay attention whereas if you play EF you really have to be on your toes during the screech phase and even if you are it(s really easy to fuck up so if you're just starting out i'd pick SH honestly

[Deleted]

I've used both on this fight and the numbers are usually pretty much the same or the difference is very small. However it's way more comfortable to use SH on this since your HR cast time is much faster you won't get silenced as often if you pay attention whereas if you play EF you really have to be on your toes during the screech phase and even if you are it(s really easy to fuck up so if you're just starting out i'd pick SH honestly

For me SH was a total success yesterday on Thok Normal (sorry not heroic yet) [worldoflogs dot com /reports/j6kdtqm6tmffwcjl/sum/healingDone/?s=3827&e=4241]. Since we talked about SH here during a Thok fight, I wanted to add my experiences and current stats.

I'm at 557 ilvl and ran with as high mastery as I could (55%) [eu battle net /wow/en/character/stormrage/Rynion/simple]. Bit of excersize up front taught me I will OOM ~ 7.5 min, but a few Lucidities would help me get back up to 40% quite quickly. With EF (month ago on Thok) I didn't get as high as 150-175k hps while yesterday it worked. I noticed I had to hold back (close to stopping completely since the other healers were still going nuts ) to get into fixate phase and avoid that our tank would get 1-shotted due to too many stacks. Only a few interrupts in the last fight, while in other attempts (close to) none. We're not that fortunate on Siegecrafter yet but that will come. On Siege I would have preferred EF build, but I dislike having to reforge/regem all the time. For now I'm sticking to this until I get the feeling it's gimping my healing too much.

Anything you can learn on our performance in general (Thok or Siege?). Any advice is welcome.