World of Logs is dead - why aren't more people moving to Warcraft logs?

[apepi]

Make pvp logs a thing, and ill do it.

[ComputerNerd]

PvP I don't think makes sense.
Considerably varying opponents and unpredictable encounters make dps or healing meters a rather pointless measure.
Already people place too much emphasis on misleading numbers in PvE where there is at least some place for the tools, let alone PvP where there is no use for them.

[Noctus78]

Im using both for some weeks now for our guild

Im only affraid that once warcraftlogs becomes as popular as WoL, their databases might not be as fast as they are now still

[Libretto]

1) Combat Replay is window dressing. It's actually useless. Really. You will never use this thing. Ever. Are you really going to stop raid to review it? No. Are you really going to watch it over matching a log to a movie on youtube and watching critically? No.

We used it to determine who was out of position / triggered a transition early on heroic thok in our alt raid. It is very useful for that sort of thing, as WoL can't tell us who was standing where, when. It's also good for determining who moves late with mechanics, who finishes casts before moving, who moves early, etc.

It's not nearly as ZOMG AMAZING as some people make it out to be as its usefulness is limited, but the small number of things it is useful for, it is incredibly useful for.

[Kildragon]

I would love to see something like this for pvp. Being able to analyze my 3s matches in terms of positioning and what spells were casted at what time would be great for figuring out those little mistakes. In rbgs especially this would give us leaders a chance to check out who was running off by themselves, which melee were mongoloiding in only to get blown up, which dps were actually on target and which healer was lying when they said they were healing the fc.

Of course the dps/healing rankings would be entirely useless just nice to look at. I'm simply thinking in terms of evaluation of my rbg group. It's nearly impossible to keep track of everyone in your group at all times and this would solve so many arguments where I can't prove the person wrong.

[Kihra]

2) World of Logs has two extremely powerful methods of log parsing and examining (expression editor, log browser), and equally as important is the expanded view of the boss's buffs casts / debuffs cast tab (and placing it on a timeline with stacks and then comparing that to players with the hashtags). Warcraft logs has nothing like this.

Not true.

The Guide To Pins

[Foxhoundn]

Was looking for a log with that enabled - it's just fantastic.

Link for those interested in the office Kitten's logs.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!!! Thats just genious! Massive props to the developers!

[Cebel]

1) Combat Replay is window dressing. It's actually useless. Really. You will never use this thing. Ever. Are you really going to stop raid to review it? No. Are you really going to watch it over matching a log to a movie on youtube and watching critically? No.

2) World of Logs has two extremely powerful methods of log parsing and examining (expression editor, log browser), and equally as important is the expanded view of the boss's buffs casts / debuffs cast tab (and placing it on a timeline with stacks and then comparing that to players with the hashtags). Warcraft logs has nothing like this.

So really, that makes the decision really easy. Warcraft Logs has a snappy presentation, but lacks the actual most useful things in a log browser, which is effective means of figuring out what the boss is doing. As far as like, naively looking at DPS or heals... sure. But those are the most useless numbers in the game. If I want to know how many seconds there are between abilities, the frequency, the solution, and put it on a timeline... WL has nothing like that.

It's all flash, no substance. The WoL thing is a bunch of moaning from people who don't know how to use the thing and are obsessed with the fact there is no heroic detection on a couple of fights. But really that shit doesn't matter. It still has the same incredibly useful tools. Until WL has every single one of them - and I do mean every single one of the tools that allows us to dissect logs like a goddamn high school biology frog - it's a no sale for us.

Right now, it's the MacOS of log sites and nothing more.

except it has an expression editor, but instead of needing to learn a 2nd language to use it, it has a very intuitive UI that uses drop down boxes to get all of the exact same information. As rigg would say #GoodTalk.

[Deleted]

1) Combat Replay is window dressing. It's actually useless. Really. You will never use this thing. Ever. Are you really going to stop raid to review it? No. Are you really going to watch it over matching a log to a movie on youtube and watching critically? No.

It is useful for pretty much every single fight this tier. Say on garrosh a weapon spawns halfway into melee, you can then check who was out of place. Chances are if no one owns up to their mistake they might not know they did something wrong and this tool will help with that. My guild leader has been using an addon that did the same thing during progress of T16 (didnt exist during T15) and it was insanely useful.

[Kihra]

I should add that I'm going to unveil the *actual* expression editor pretty soon and I think you'll like it. All the usual things you can query for in WoL, but also buff presence/absence testing, arbitrary range definitions (e.g., set two completely different start/end events as your range and test for being inside or outside it), positional queries ("Was player X within 10 yds of player Y"), resource queries ("Show me heals when a target is under 100k HP", "Show me what I did when I had low mana"), etc.

[cFortyfive]

We used it to determine who was out of position / triggered a transition early on heroic thok in our alt raid. It is very useful for that sort of thing, as WoL can't tell us who was standing where, when.

Well but with streaming and shadowplay I honestly think as well that it won't see too much use from where I am standing at least. It's obviously still a quite nice toy.
Other than that I already switched - it's just better to get used to it now than later and while I obviously loved to use the logbrowser and the expression editor progress is over and at least for now it isn't as necessary.

[lakhesis]

Well but with streaming and shadowplay I honestly think as well that it won't see too much use from where I am standing at least. It's obviously still a quite nice toy.
Other than that I already switched - it's just better to get used to it now than later and while I obviously loved to use the logbrowser and the expression editor progress is over and at least for now it isn't as necessary.

Video recording doesn't really cover the same detail as the top down view - it's just too dependent on perspective. The heroic thok example someone mentioned before is one where the replay really shows its strengths.

If I'm recording Thok from my PoV as tank, I really can't guarantee I'll always see the positioning of everyone in raid clearly enough to tell who accidentally wanders within 10 yards of the wrong group. Likewise in the kite phase I'll only ever have a decent view of one end of the kite path. So it's a damn sight simpler just to use the combat replay view on a log we'd be making anyway.

Besides which, it's just simpler to automatically combatlog than it is to automatically record. So it gets points for convenience factor too.

That said, I do agree that it's frequently a lot more cool looking than genuinely necessarily... but on the occasions when it is useful it's exceptionally useful.

The one thing I'm missing atm is the convenience of just being able to run a quick expression editor search rather than screwing around with pins, but that's coming & considering the calibre of the rest of the site I doubt the expression editor will be anything but excellent.

[Daagar]

A bit harsh to claim that a site in alpha status is 'all window dressing and no substance'. The definition of alpha is that it is not yet feature complete. And clearly, the features that _are_ there appear to be astounding, regardless of whether they are personally useful to _you_. WoL still exists, and if it fits your needs then great.

[Bonsaii]

So to start with, I am not affiliated with either site and this is not an attempt to flame WoL.
Facts are facts though.

1.) World of Logs hasn't been updated in months. The only update that we received was to actually be able to upload logs (when fight detection log events were introduced).
2.) Warcraftlogs is already functional and has a fantastic interface with tons of new functionality. Plus, they detect heroic fights all the way!
3.) World of logs is incredibly buggy, with fight lengths, ranks, etc all having issues.
4.) Warcraft logs has a few bugs too, but the developer is actively fixing them. There are updates every few days!
5.) A *lot* of top heroic guilds are now uploading their logs to Warcraft logs, so the ranking data there is probably of a pretty high standard.

I don't understand though why people still upload their logs to world of logs? For some reason people still upload logs only to WoL and not to Warcraft logs.

Ventrillo. It's still got plenty of use when Mumble and TS3 have a lot of obvious upswings.

Something can have a much better design and function and go unused because the majority don't like change.

[Hypasonic]

lol thats mental, I just simply cannot see how every guild will now NOT use Warcraft logs with the feature AND the support, which WoL has lacked. Ah well you've been good to us WoL but it's time we parted ways because I've found an even sexier partner, to-da-loo!

[Pennoyer]

1) Combat Replay is window dressing. It's actually useless. Really. You will never use this thing. Ever. Are you really going to stop raid to review it? No. Are you really going to watch it over matching a log to a movie on youtube and watching critically? No.

I've actually used it a few times. Used it to see which people weren't properly stacked in a line or if stray people were interfering with Aim soakers on Klaxxi. Also used it to figure out who fucked up their purple toxin debuff and how we got a mine so far away during IJ.

As for the rest of your post, you clearly haven't used WCL enough to see that WCL is basically doing what WoL does, except better. It's also in alpha/beta. I believe they're aiming for WoD for an 'official' launch.

[crunk]

maybe im just dumb but i wish pins were more intuitive. the one and only thing i prefer world of logs for is the fact that all i have to do is simply click on the name of a buff to have it show up on the graph.

[cremor]

maybe im just dumb but i wish pins were more intuitive. the one and only thing i prefer world of logs for is the fact that all i have to do is simply click on the name of a buff to have it show up on the graph.

As far as I know exactly that will be possible when the "+" icons in the tables of the buff/debuffs view are implemented.

[Kihra]

As far as I know exactly that will be possible when the "+" icons in the tables of the buff/debuffs view are implemented.

Yup, that's right. The pin buttons in buffs/debuffs and in resources aren't implemented yet.

[deadman1]

Acting like a small site is commonplace just because your guild uses it doesn't make it so.