Ukraine

[moppanda]

My grandfather told me that Jesus is my savior, and I should worship him with all my heart. However, that doesn't make what he said true.

So, basically, you are saying that my grandfather and rest of my relatives are liars and/or deranged? You just lowered the average IQ level of this forum, but then again it wasn't that high to begin with.

[Deleted]

Ahoj kamarát. (Hello friend)

Now to the point, ideology has never in the human history killed, since ideology is an idea on the paper, it was the people who killed, so get this into your thick skull please, also lets not go into this subject because imperialism (capitalism on steroids) has commited attrocious genocides mainly against natives in Americas, effectively wiping them out of the Earth, enslaved milions of black people and many more. The number of dead because of capitalism (imperialism, colonialism, fascism) is much higher.

And I know that bigger evil doesnt make lesser evil good, I despise mass murderers from any side or ideology camp.

Imperialism is not Capitalism. I'm sure you learned that in commie school, but it's not true.

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So, basically, you are saying that my grandfather and rest of my relatives are liars and/or deranged? You just lowered the average IQ level of this forum, but then again it wasn't that high to begin with.

I'm not saying that he's a liar, I'm not even calling my Grandfather a liar. I am saying that your argument is invalid because you have way to prove it.

"Jesus is real! I know this because my grandpa told me!" is as bad as, "Activists are paying people to protest! I know this because my grandpa told me!"

[moppanda]

Imperialism is not Capitalism. I'm sure you learned that in commie school, but it's not true.

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I'm not saying that he's a liar, I'm not even calling my Grandfather a liar. I am saying that your argument is invalid because you have way to prove it.

"Jesus is real! I know this because my grandpa told me!" is as bad as, "Activists are paying people to protest! I know this because my grandpa told me!"

Your example cannot be applied here because your grandpa haven't lived 2k years ago and thus cannot know whether its true or not. Your grandpa is not a reliable source even to YOU. However, in my case, my grandpa IS a reliable source to me. The question whether you consider me as a reliable source or not; doesn't bother me at all. I know what I know, you can either accept it as truth or ignore it.

[Deleted]

Your example cannot be applied here because your grandpa haven't lived 2k years ago and thus cannot know whether its true or not. Your grandpa is not a reliable source even to YOU. However, in my case, my grandpa IS a reliable source to me. The question whether you consider me as a reliable source or not; doesn't bother me at all. I know what I know, you can either accept it as truth or ignore it.

So you have no proof to support what you were saying, kk.

[Bakis]

I know what I know, you can either accept it as truth or ignore it.

Amusing but not suprising to come from someone who look up to the Soviet era.

[Sixteen18]

Do some people in US have some kind of a fascination with supporting protesters even if they are terrorists or Nazi fanatics? That is exactly what this trash in Ukraine is. These idiots have been pushing their agenda ever since Ukraine broke off from Soviet Union. The reason they only now decided to go and burn down their own cities is because the mess with EU agreements has left the Ukrainian government in a position where they can't use proper force to put down the riots without instigating the Western critics (Which seem to be instigated enough anyhow). A few years ago the army would've crushed this pathetic protest within days, those clowns aren't going to act so tough when people they are attacking are fighting back.

[Deleted]

the mess with EU agreements has left the Ukrainian government in a position where they can't use proper force to put down the riots without instigating the Western critics (Which seem to be instigated enough anyhow). A few years ago the army would've crushed this pathetic protest within days, those clowns aren't going to act so tough when people they are attacking are fighting back.

I think the influence of the EU might be not that bad after all.

[Nostop it]

The U.S. shouldn't waste a penny on this madness. Stay out, we have our own problems. The EU being our ally means nothing.

[Deleted]

The U.S. shouldn't waste a penny on this madness. Stay out, we have our own problems. The EU being our ally means nothing.

Yeah it does. We have to depend on our allies at all times, and if our allies are stronger, we're stronger.

[Nostop it]

Yeah it does. We have to depend on our allies at all times, and if our allies are stronger, we're stronger.

"Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them." - George Washington.

[Skroe]

"Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them." - George Washington.

George Washington also lived in a world where the political map was this:



Which is to say, he had the luxury of an easier, vastly bigger, very empty, less messy world. A world where he could promote a policy that could get away with it.

What George Washington thinks or wanted on this issue is entirely irrelevant.

And it's worth noting, it was a policy not shared by his peers and successors, to America's immense benefit. Let's not forget, the Monroe Doctrine, which kept Europe out of the Americas, which came into force barely 25 years later, was an American policy that was really enforced by the British Royal Navy, as we barely had a Navy worthy of the name.

Safe to say, George Washington was dead wrong on the issue of foreign relations. He was wrong during his Presidency - and his peers like Hamilton and Jefferson (despite being on opposite sides) let him know it. And he was wrong after his Presidency, as it was a practice in name only.

The foreign policy ideas of a man who lived when trans Atlantic travel took weeks, and trans continental travel and trans pacific travel was still called "exploration" are meritless.

[Tierbook]

Yeah it does. We have to depend on our allies at all times, and if our allies are stronger, we're stronger.

I'm not entirely sure the US has much of an alliance with Ukraine, and we aren't going to help our allies fix a country that has nothing to do with us

[Skroe]

I'm not entirely sure the US has much of an alliance with Ukraine, and we aren't going to help our allies fix a country that has nothing to do with us

Not true. Ukraine if of immense strategic importance to the US. There are few countries of more importance actually. Nothing keeps the Russians up more at night than the thought of Ukraine, strategically located in Russia's soft underbelly, joining NATO one day.

They are are right to fear that. Ukraine in NATO has been one of the major longterm goals of the alliance since the end of the Cold War. The next time NATO expands in a big way, it will be with Ukraine.

You just have to look at the strategic position from a Russian perspective.

Syria, their long time reliable ally, will take decades to recover if Assad ultimately prevails. If Assad fails, they lose that ally, and very likely, their only naval base in the Mediterranean

China expanding their military capacity at a rate Russia can't match, and thus making Russia's long term defense of the Far East extremely questionable.

US expanding missile defenses in Europe and East Asia and embarking on a mutli-trillion dollar military modernization program

US likely to have a long term presence in Afghanistan.


If Russia feels surrounded, it's because... well... they're about to be.

[Deleted]

"Why forego the advantages of so peculiar a situation? Why quit our own to stand upon foreign ground? Why, by interweaving our destiny with that of any part of Europe, entangle our peace and prosperity in the toils of European ambition, rivalship, interest, humor or caprice?

It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them." - George Washington.

Why do people try to pull the George Washington card on me all the time? Sure my avatar is George Washington, but it doesn't mean I agree with him on everything. For instance, I believe slavery was a horrible thing, and wish it was abolished when this country was formed. In reality, George Washington owned slaves.

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I'm not entirely sure the US has much of an alliance with Ukraine, and we aren't going to help our allies fix a country that has nothing to do with us

The U.S. has alliances with most of the EU. (or maybe the whole of it, not 100% sure on this one.)

Also, what Skroesec said.

[Skroe]

Why do people try to pull the George Washington card on me all the time? Sure my avatar is George Washington, but it doesn't mean I agree with him on everything. For instance, I believe slavery was a horrible thing, and wish it was abolished when this country was formed. In reality, George Washington owned slaves.

Because what kind of person has George Washington as their avatar on a Video Game forum. Like really. George Washington... here? It's that supposed to mean something? Because it doesn't.

For fuck's sake. Mine is Starscream from Transformers Prime because he makes me laugh. Half the forum's is Warcraft stuff, Anime stuff or My Little Pony. Even crazier-than-a-bag-full-of-cats Cybran has an anime.

[Notchris]

Even crazier-than-a-bag-full-of-cats Cybran has an anime.

Oh goddamnit I just spit Pepsi on my screen. Thanks a lot.

[Deleted]

Because what kind of person has George Washington as their avatar on a Video Game forum. Like really. George Washington... here? It's that supposed to mean something? Because it doesn't.

For fuck's sake. Mine is Starscream from Transformers Prime because he makes me laugh. Half the forum's is Warcraft stuff, Anime stuff or My Little Pony. Even crazier-than-a-bag-full-of-cats Cybran has an anime.

Cuz I didn't have an Avatar for awhile, saw this picture of George Washington, decided "fuck it", made it my avatar. Should I make it the George Washington picture from AC3 to appease the video game gods, or what?

[Skroe]

Cuz I didn't have an Avatar for awhile, saw this picture of George Washington, decided "fuck it", made it my avatar. Should I make it the George Washington picture from AC3 to appease the video game gods, or what?

It would be a start. It would be far less obnoxious. I think people would take you more seriously. Your libertarian streak with that avatar - which will always inform people's views because that's what they have to go by - has you come off as kind of an enforcer for America of 1791. And who wants that?

[klmg8]

Do some people in US have some kind of a fascination with supporting protesters even if they are terrorists or Nazi fanatics? That is exactly what this trash in Ukraine is. These idiots have been pushing their agenda ever since Ukraine broke off from Soviet Union. The reason they only now decided to go and burn down their own cities is because the mess with EU agreements has left the Ukrainian government in a position where they can't use proper force to put down the riots without instigating the Western critics (Which seem to be instigated enough anyhow). A few years ago the army would've crushed this pathetic protest within days, those clowns aren't going to act so tough when people they are attacking are fighting back.

What a massive disinfo post. Are you paid by the Russian Government to spread disinfo? The people rioting are ordinary people from the left and right standing up for what they believe is right, all of them have different ideas on what Ukraine should be but they all know that the way it is now isn't really working out. Ukrainian government isn't fit to run a hot dog stand let alone a country. Even the US ambassadors described it as a Kleptocracy (ran by thieves) in emails. When you nation has some of the highest corruption rates on par with Syria and some African nations it's time for the people to rise up and do something about it.

[Deleted]

It would be a start. It would be far less obnoxious. I think people would take you more seriously. Your libertarian streak with that avatar - which will always inform people's views because that's what they have to go by - has you come off as kind of an enforcer for America of 1791. And who wants that?

I honestly don't feel that it's that big of deal. But since it's such a distraction, I'll take your advice and change it.