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  1. #61
    Here is the dirty fact of the 5 man dungeons, there has to be a boss that will drop gear for every single spec out there, the new loot drop process will eliminate the need for 30-40 bosses.

    What do I mean? In MoP there had to be a boss that would drop every single specs gear, from Int to Strength gear, from cloth to plate gear, from crit gear to mastery gear. Every spec has a BiS that would gear them up for the next step in raiding.

    Whats the new loot drop system in Wod? The boss will drop an armor type (cloth, leather, mail and plate) and the secondary stats will be randomized. That removes healing plate, tanking plate and dps plate and just requires that a boss drops plate. When you switch your spec the plate will switch its main stats to what your spec requires. When the boss drops plate the secondary stats will be randomized which will make doing the boss over and over again worthwhile as every time that plate drops for you it *might* be BiS secondary stats for you.

    This new system eliminates the need for a boss to drop Crit strength plate, a boss to drop haste strength plate, a boss to drop dodge strength plate, a boss to drop haste Int plate. It requires that a boss drops a plate piece for every armor slot and the rest takes care of itself with spec changing stats or random secondary stats. (tertiary too.)

    Thus no need for 40-50 5 man dungeon bosses, instead you can cover all the gear in 20-30 bosses. Sorry but thats what it all comes down to. The same people complaining that there won’t be enough dungeons are the same people complaining that they are bored and want WoD asap. The less they work on dungeons the faster you get WoD.

    The good news is that unlike MoP they have recently promised that they will continue to add in more 5 man dungeons as the next expansion rolls forward.

  2. #62
    oh and cause noone mentioned it nice that you didnt count the scenarios: tbc had zero and start and wod will have who many? right! way more!
    stop playing so u dont have to open a winethread every day...

  3. #63
    Pandaren Monk docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Well dungeons are one of my favorite things so that blows

    Words to live by.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Here is the dirty fact of the 5 man dungeons, there has to be a boss that will drop gear for every single spec out there, the new loot drop process will eliminate the need for 30-40 bosses.

    What do I mean? In MoP there had to be a boss that would drop every single specs gear, from Int to Strength gear, from cloth to plate gear, from crit gear to mastery gear. Every spec has a BiS that would gear them up for the next step in raiding.

    Whats the new loot drop system in Wod? The boss will drop an armor type (cloth, leather, mail and plate) and the secondary stats will be randomized. That removes healing plate, tanking plate and dps plate and just requires that a boss drops plate. When you switch your spec the plate will switch its main stats to what your spec requires. When the boss drops plate the secondary stats will be randomized which will make doing the boss over and over again worthwhile as every time that plate drops for you it *might* be BiS secondary stats for you.

    This new system eliminates the need for a boss to drop Crit strength plate, a boss to drop haste strength plate, a boss to drop dodge strength plate, a boss to drop haste Int plate. It requires that a boss drops a plate piece for every armor slot and the rest takes care of itself with spec changing stats or random secondary stats. (tertiary too.)

    Thus no need for 40-50 5 man dungeon bosses, instead you can cover all the gear in 20-30 bosses. Sorry but thats what it all comes down to. The same people complaining that there won’t be enough dungeons are the same people complaining that they are bored and want WoD asap. The less they work on dungeons the faster you get WoD.

    The good news is that unlike MoP they have recently promised that they will continue to add in more 5 man dungeons as the next expansion rolls forward.
    This whole post is whats wrong with blizzard and the game. basically what your saying is.

    They cant be arsed to develop the game properly despite boasting they have the biggest dev team ever. So we change the way we do the loot so we can add even less content into the game, and then act like we are releasing content faster than we have been whilst only adding in less content but the fools wont suss us out and we will get away with it.

    Mop is already running into this direction badly and to say "we dont need to put in hc dungions because of loot". I think people forgot somehwere down the road that its not all about loot.

    People with nothing to do generally quit a game. trying to appease them with shit content doesn't make them stay. Look at mop. since 5.2 we have been pretty much given 1 raid on 3 difficulties to last 10 months. Quality game design.

    And no 5.3 doesnt count for 2 reasons. One it was completely pointless. Items were soulbound rather than boe so if you didn't need 486 gear you likely didn't do it after you got what you wanted as there was no point. TWO. They full on removed the whole thing with soo release.

    And dont even get me started on timeless fail

  5. #65
    BC was also built using a lot of stuff meant for Vanilla, since WoW wasn't expected to do so well. Karazhan and Caverns of Time were in the game since launch.

    So it's kinda different to compare a game where they just sort of throw everything against the wall and see what sticks, to something that they're actively trying to have more memorable/less grindy dungeons.

    BC had a lot of 5 mans, not a lot of GOOD 5 mans.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    Well dungeons are one of my favorite things so that blows
    Unfortunately the 5 man dungeon gets thrown on the fire so that Blizzard can devote 100% of its end game resources to making raids, which they slice off a pale shade copy and throw to casuals so raiders can have more content more often, then the elitists throw a shit fit that they have to share raid content and raid rewards with casuals even though they benefit from 100% of the end game resources due to it.

    Its elitist idiocy at its best. (Mind you don't cofuse the elite player with an elitists player, elite players don't spend their days farting on roses to make the roses smell better.)

  7. #67
    Immortal Nindoriel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halicia View Post
    to be fair, i'm 100% cool with them re-using environments for dungeon families like that. its not like the floorplans and bosses were exact copies anyways.

    level distribution of MoP dungeons sucked. Cata dungeons either sucked, were poorly rehashed, or would have made AWESOME raids. (but were poorly suited as dungeons).
    I would be fine with that, too, if they can make more dungeons that way. I also thought it was a good way to tell more stories about a certain place, and those dungeons didn't feel too similar.

  8. #68
    The Patient Furkel's Avatar
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    Fine, I'll "do the math": 15 dungeons does not equal 7 dungeons. Besides that, I'm not sure what your point is or if indeed you have one.

    ...okay, now that I've got the mean snarky bit out of the way, I get it. I get that you're probably legitimately concerned about the state of the game, and that your opinion counts every bit as much as mine, and that you probably don't deserve the pages and pages of crap already in this post, but you can't really judge an entire expansion based on how ONE gameplay feature isn't as heavily represented as it used to be, and at any rate there's far too many complaint posts these days and I never understood what they're meant to accomplish anyway. RANT OVER.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    They cant be arsed to develop the game properly despite boasting they have the biggest dev team ever. So we change the way we do the loot so we can add even less content into the game, and then act like we are releasing content faster than we have been whilst only adding in less content but the fools wont suss us out and we will get away with it.
    I don't get why people think a bigger dev team suddenly means faster content. Two heads are only better than one if you're working on two different angles.

    If you throw two devs at the same project, the project's speed may actually INCREASE instead of decrease because the two devs may not agree on the right way to go. So the brainstorming phase increases in time. Then there's the planning phase, where after you have the idea, the devs still have to agree on the right way to build/plan/design the instance; Same thought process, if they don't agree it takes longer. Then there's bosses and trash; Trash less so because it tends not to matter if 5 mans, but bosses need mechanics. If a boss is doing one thing and a dev throws in another thing because they're both working on it, now the devs have to work out whether or not to keep everything, bug fixes due to possible communication error...

    Point being... Throwing more resources at a project doesn't instantly make the time spent on the project go down. The quality might go up, but the time increase also goes up. If you want quality content, stop being whiny bitches about having long periods with no content. If you want fast content, stop being whiny bitches about not having quality content.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    If a building's about to collapse, you can debate whether it's better to demolish it or repair it, and you can make political-agenda arguments either way. Disputing gravity itself to claim it won't fall down is not a political position, it's just ignorance.

  10. #70
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    Well, I... oh wait, it's Jaylock... moving on!

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    I don't get why people think a bigger dev team suddenly means faster content. Two heads are only better than one if you're working on two different angles.

    If you throw two devs at the same project, the project's speed may actually INCREASE instead of decrease because the two devs may not agree on the right way to go. So the brainstorming phase increases in time. Then there's the planning phase, where after you have the idea, the devs still have to agree on the right way to build/plan/design the instance; Same thought process, if they don't agree it takes longer. Then there's bosses and trash; Trash less so because it tends not to matter if 5 mans, but bosses need mechanics. If a boss is doing one thing and a dev throws in another thing because they're both working on it, now the devs have to work out whether or not to keep everything, bug fixes due to possible communication error...

    Point being... Throwing more resources at a project doesn't instantly make the time spent on the project go down. The quality might go up, but the time increase also goes up. If you want quality content, stop being whiny bitches about having long periods with no content. If you want fast content, stop being whiny bitches about not having quality content.
    your arguing against a point i didn't even make! I never said adding more devs made faster content. What i pointed out was they are claiming they have more devs yet the content is still shit and hashed and still coming out at the same rate. Maybe read properly

  12. #72
    Pit Lord Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    varied environments.
    Even though it's Jaylock, there are other people who like to bring this up.

    The four Auchindoun dungeons looked pretty similar.
    As did the 3 Coilfang ones (plus SSC).
    And the 3 TK ones (again, including the raid).
    And Hellfire (once again, the raid located here was pretty much the same as Blood Furnace, visually).
    Caverns of Time dungeons were instanced versions of places we already had in the world.
    Even Magister's Terrace was pretty much an instanced version of IQD, or a smaller version of Sunwell.

    Now, this isn't a bad thing. It makes perfect sense for them to look similar, considering they belong to the same environment or to the same complexes. But to use that as an argument for "varied environments" is nothing short of hilarious. As far as environments go, TBC dungeons had very little variety, even if their number was double of what other expansions have. Does make a bit of sense why they were so numerous, doesn't it?
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  13. #73
    The Patient Marquize's Avatar
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    Since they have stated that leveling will be more like the timeless isle way of things it's not too drastic to assume the endgame will be a bit like that too.
    They maby put more effort in open world events so that you have more to do than just dungeons because to be fair, now, 4 patches into the expansion, do you ever do any of the current instances? Personally I don't do that outside of leveling and then I just do everyone once for the quests.

    Less instances? Yes. Less content? Not necessarily, I hope that they put an effort in more things to do out in the world, and the garrison is a great start imho.

    Also if they keep the same mindset as they did in MoP, there will be no more 5mans after the release, because it's in the start of the expansion people play them and then they go over to LFR for later patches.

    Remember, there is more to the game than just instances, and I think they want to enhance that aspect of the game with this next expansion.

  14. #74
    The Lightbringer Ermahgerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Someone will probably say quality > quantity, but a lot of the mop dungeons were just a piece of shit
    I'd rather have quantity especially when the quality of the dungeons have dramatically decreased IMHO. Higher quantity dungeons also reduces burnout rate with them.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Naztrak View Post
    Someone will probably say quality > quantity, but a lot of the mop dungeons were just a piece of shit
    This made me lol. Thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadmanWalking View Post
    Here is the dirty fact of the 5 man dungeons, there has to be a boss that will drop gear for every single spec out there, the new loot drop process will eliminate the need for 30-40 bosses.

    What do I mean? In MoP there had to be a boss that would drop every single specs gear, from Int to Strength gear, from cloth to plate gear, from crit gear to mastery gear. Every spec has a BiS that would gear them up for the next step in raiding.

    Whats the new loot drop system in Wod? The boss will drop an armor type (cloth, leather, mail and plate) and the secondary stats will be randomized. That removes healing plate, tanking plate and dps plate and just requires that a boss drops plate. When you switch your spec the plate will switch its main stats to what your spec requires. When the boss drops plate the secondary stats will be randomized which will make doing the boss over and over again worthwhile as every time that plate drops for you it *might* be BiS secondary stats for you.

    This new system eliminates the need for a boss to drop Crit strength plate, a boss to drop haste strength plate, a boss to drop dodge strength plate, a boss to drop haste Int plate. It requires that a boss drops a plate piece for every armor slot and the rest takes care of itself with spec changing stats or random secondary stats. (tertiary too.)

    Thus no need for 40-50 5 man dungeon bosses, instead you can cover all the gear in 20-30 bosses. Sorry but thats what it all comes down to. The same people complaining that there won’t be enough dungeons are the same people complaining that they are bored and want WoD asap. The less they work on dungeons the faster you get WoD.

    The good news is that unlike MoP they have recently promised that they will continue to add in more 5 man dungeons as the next expansion rolls forward.
    I hate this new gearing system already. As if free purps and free oranges weren't enough. Here's your gear first run first try. Player never steps foot in dungeon again, dungeon obsolete even quicker then previous expansions.

    I can't wait for Wildstar.

  16. #76
    Legendary! Chickat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Yes but no. Heroic is being rejigged to prenerf Vortex Pinnacle, but the current Heroic difficulty will live on as a level 100 Normal version of each dungeon. And I'm pretty sure Heroic will require a premade group a la Heroic Scenarios.

    More clarification: The idea seems to be that you go from 100 Normal > LFR > Normal+ if you're so inclined, or you can sidestep LFR with Heroic 5-mans.
    I hope so.
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  17. #77
    MoP really didn't have enough dungeons while leveling. I believe there were 6 total available from 85-89? 2 available each at 85, 87, 89? Or something similar. (they've added a couple more since then)

    WoD is going to be more of the same. 6 dungeons for 10 levels? Man, that's going to be boring.

    I guess after the initial hump, it doesn't really matter. I only do dungeons (outside of the initial grind to get blue set to get ready for raids) when I want JP, which isn't often.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Chickat View Post
    I hope so.
    Oh please tell me this happens. How I miss cata heroics.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Daerio View Post
    MoP really didn't have enough dungeons while leveling. I believe there were 6 total available from 85-89? 2 available each at 85, 87, 89? Or something similar. (they've added a couple more since then)

    WoD is going to be more of the same. 6 dungeons for 10 levels? Man, that's going to be boring.

    I guess after the initial hump, it doesn't really matter. I only do dungeons (outside of the initial grind to get blue set to get ready for raids) when I want JP, which isn't often.
    MOP adddd 5 mans? Are we playing the same game?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Paintank View Post
    Hey its you again, so how many whine threads did you make again?
    Just to make you remember, development for BC was always WAY longer...
    this. plus wods quests and leveling procces will have more cinematics and all kind of scenarios with garrosh and the warchiefs and not like in BC when u see illidan one time at lvl 70 quest and then only when u kill him.
    but this is kind of strange...they said they got +40% team now...

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsubodia View Post
    your arguing against a point i didn't even make! I never said adding more devs made faster content. What i pointed out was they are claiming they have more devs yet the content is still shit and hashed and still coming out at the same rate. Maybe read properly
    I disagree on the shit bit, I actually like some of the dungeons in mop more than say BC...maybe because I rep grinded them so damn much to have my epics for kara asap.


    Speed wise is same..ish.
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