Alterac Valley Changes (Finally!)

[Nuvuk]

I dont know how its going to help making the NPCs harder to kill. I like it but I dont know if it will be enough.

[Asphyxiate9]

They need to change the towers, the distances are relatively the same however if the horde want to cap they get interrupted by the guards but if the alliance want to cap there's a wall blocking their line of sight. It doesn't sound like much but by the time all the towers are capped horde are usually 1-2 minutes behind.

[Uoyredrum]

well.. what exactly isnt balanced in av?

The path to the alliance base is one giant chokepoint, the path to the horde base is completely wide-open with multiple paths inside (both into the main part and the upper part). This makes it much easier for alliance to move in and set up for the boss than for horde.

Also, the alliance have a huge advantage with where they rez in their base to defend that last two flags compared to horde.

[Kaleredar]

The path to the alliance base is one giant chokepoint, the path to the horde base is completely wide-open with multiple paths inside (both into the main part and the upper part). This makes it much easier for alliance to move in and set up for the boss than for horde.

Also, the alliance have a huge advantage with where they rez in their base to defend that last two flags compared to horde.

When was the last time that any of those things were the deciding factor for a match? There's really only one way into the horde base, and that's through that little building. I've seen things stalled up there MUCH harder than I've ever seen things stalled up on the bridge. You could feasibly "jump around," but one guy isn't going to be able to sneak past the horde holding the line on that little ramp.

The horde don't even try any more, that's why they lose. That's it and it alone.

[arcaneshot]

well.. what exactly isnt balanced in av?

It's easier to recapture a bunker than it is a tower. The tower has a whole host of LOS issues for the people assaulting it (read: the Horde trying to get the tower back) which the bunker doesn't have.

When was the last time that any of those things were the deciding factor for a match? There's really only one way into the horde base, and that's through that little building. I've seen things stalled up there MUCH harder than I've ever seen things stalled up on the bridge.

You seem to be thinking back to when that small building dismounted people. The only thing that building does now is cover people coming up the hill so you can't hit them.

[Kaleredar]

It's easier to recapture a bunker than it is a tower. The tower has a whole host of LOS issues for the people assaulting it (read: the Horde trying to get the tower back) which the bunker doesn't have.

When you get feared in a tower, you know what it does? Sends you scurrying right out of the hut and down the ramp. One spriest can literally clear every single alliance out of there. And hey, if the towers are so damn hard to "assault," then maybe you should try coercing your team into DEFENDING them from the start.

And frankly, that's still burying the lead. Seven people backcapping are going to unseat three people defending, regardless of whether it's a tower or bunker. Honestly, Ally hardly EVER defend tower point or the frostwolf towers with more than two people at MOST. The horde just don't seem to keen on trying to backcap.

You seem to be thinking back to when that small building dismounted people. The only thing that building does now is cover people coming up the hill so you can't hit them.

No, I'm not "remembering that." The ability to mount through that little building means bupkis if there's a cauldron of horde inside holding the line. That area has three choke points literally lined up: the entrance to the building provides one. Healers can sit back cozy in complete protection, WITH LoS, healing people holding the doorway. If they get pushed back, they have ANOTHER doorway. And if they manage to lose THAT, lo and behold, it's an uphill battle against yet ANOTHER gate the horde have right between the two frostwolf towers. You can sit ranged DPS right on top of those towers and plug away at people to your heart's content. But... they don't. You seem to be portraying Alliance as some sort of "grand strategists" in Alterac valley who deftly use every little topographical feature to their advantage. Yeah, I can tell you... that isn't the case. The horde more often than not just falter under any pressure put on them.

[Deleted]

Unless it's a radical change, which I doubt, this is not gonna make a single difference.

[Fungj]

Don't think it will change much, the numbers haven't been changed since the release of mop and needed and update but it won't make any big difference.

[Seriss]

Since I faction-changed to Horde, I have AV blacklisted. Horde rarely grasp how Alliance strategy can be disrupted and don't listen when told how Alliance wins work. In the few AVs that I lost as Alliance, it was ridiculous how easily Horde won. But the majority just don't know how.

[zoomgpally]

Well, since there isn't really a topic on this, I decided to make one myself.

So for those who didn't see the front page about the changes, I'd suggest for you to go to the front page and check it out.

For discussion's sake, what does everyone think about the changes, and do you think they will do their intent?

The changes we need is a rebalance of AV and IoC, possibly also silvershard mines, over 60% win rate for a faction means something is wrong(sure, SotA is 68% horde, but with changing sides its not a map balance issue)

Source: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Tweets-DLC-424

- - - Updated - - -

It's easier to recapture a bunker than it is a tower. The tower has a whole host of LOS issues for the people assaulting it (read: the Horde trying to get the tower back) which the bunker doesn't have.



You seem to be thinking back to when that small building dismounted people. The only thing that building does now is cover people coming up the hill so you can't hit them.

And the bridge makes it possible to cause problems with knockback, which is better for defense than offense

[Frozenbeef]

It wouldn't effect anything except people now need to spend an extra 5seconds on each boss...it prob won't even be noticed by the vast majority of people that don't read patch notes >.<

[zoomgpally]

When you get feared in a tower, you know what it does? Sends you scurrying right out of the hut and down the ramp. One spriest can literally clear every single alliance out of there. And hey, if the towers are so damn hard to "assault," then maybe you should try coercing your team into DEFENDING them from the start.

And frankly, that's still burying the lead. Seven people backcapping are going to unseat three people defending, regardless of whether it's a tower or bunker. Honestly, Ally hardly EVER defend tower point or the frostwolf towers with more than two people at MOST. The horde just don't seem to keen on trying to backcap.





No, I'm not "remembering that." The ability to mount through that little building means bupkis if there's a cauldron of horde inside holding the line. That area has three choke points literally lined up: the entrance to the building provides one. Healers can sit back cozy in complete protection, WITH LoS, healing people holding the doorway. If they get pushed back, they have ANOTHER doorway. And if they manage to lose THAT, lo and behold, it's an uphill battle against yet ANOTHER gate the horde have right between the two frostwolf towers. You can sit ranged DPS right on top of those towers and plug away at people to your heart's content. But... they don't. You seem to be portraying Alliance as some sort of "grand strategists" in Alterac valley who deftly use every little topographical feature to their advantage. Yeah, I can tell you... that isn't the case. The horde more often than not just falter under any pressure put on them.

No battleground is more fair than SotA, horde got 68.3% win rate there.
In AV they got 21.8% and in IoC they got 15.1%

Its obvious something is wrong.

[glowzone]

The path to the alliance base is one giant chokepoint, the path to the horde base is completely wide-open with multiple paths inside

Actually the horde has some amazing chokepoints aswell, it's just that the alliance has no choice but to use theirs because it's in their end base.
The horde has to actually organize to use theirs, and in pugs that hardly ever happens.

[Deleted]

I would love it if they made AV like dota. Meaning that you had to destroy towers to be able to even hit the end boss :-)

[Matt0193]

It's not going to change a thing. Vanndar is still harder to zerg than Drek'thar because he has Avatar (Which increases his armor by some % and his damage by 50%) which stacks with Marshal buffs while drek has some shitty wolves which get cleaved instantly. Considering that you could tank Vann + 1 Marshal in Malev, even with this you'd still be able to go in Vann + 2 with a healer who knows what CDs are, as well as a Tank who knows the same.

Imo, they should give Drek Ascendance and let hit one shot Alliance. That would at least balance Drek and Van.

[Nivena]

They need to change the towers, the distances are relatively the same however if the horde want to cap they get interrupted by the guards but if the alliance want to cap there's a wall blocking their line of sight. It doesn't sound like much but by the time all the towers are capped horde are usually 1-2 minutes behind.

I can cap every tower without being interrupted while all the Night Elf archers are still alive. You need to stand in the correct spot however and most people don't know that.

[Terridon]

I can cap every tower without being interrupted while all the Night Elf archers are still alive. You need to stand in the correct spot however and most people don't know that.

Indeed, Just stand between the pillars and you can cap it without them disturbing you.

The health change doesn't change anything. It's just to make up for people getting a huge damage boost from the new gear, and already have way too much. No amount of npcs can kill you currently.

[Matt0193]

I can cap every tower without being interrupted while all the Night Elf archers are still alive. You need to stand in the correct spot however and most people don't know that.

I was under the impression you could only cap DB North and Stonehearth Bunkers, as both DB South and Icewing have an NPC who's within eyeshot of you no matter where you stand?

[AeneasBK]

I can cap every tower without being interrupted while all the Night Elf archers are still alive. You need to stand in the correct spot however and most people don't know that.

Yeah I was reading that post adn I was wondering wth he meant

Anyways, the "imbalances" in AV are much more socially constructed than built into the map. Over years of Alliance having slight advantage (read: 45-55% W/L) a lot of horde black list it, whereas a lot of Alliance will queue specifically for it. During the battles more of the Alliance team will play to win, and the more of the horde team will play to QQ (And I have hundreds of AV under my belt on both factions thanks). As has been pointed out; nearly every single geographical difference is mirrored; it all depends on how you go about it. If towers are so hard to recapture, then by that very same virtue, they are easier to defend. There are choke points at both ends of the map.

Most amusing of all is the "omg I don't queue up for that PvE zerg fest" when all it takes is a small number of people per battle (and there is nearly always enough there who will want to) to defend Galvangar to blunt the first wave of Alliance and start them ressing in the north again, break up their team and f*ck them over for the rest of the battle. But most of the time these days; horde are too busy bitching to do anything. And thats why what was a 45/55% W/L is now 80/20. The map hasn't changed. Players attitudes have.

[Deleted]

The horde don't even try any more, that's why they lose. That's it and it alone.

That's nonsense and you know it. The real issue is that Alliance can start capping towers without having to kill any guards, while Horde has to kill the guards first. This gives Alliance a huge time advantage.