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  1. #161
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nobleshield View Post
    To be fair the only packs that CC really helped were the guys before Taran Zhu in Shado-Pan Monastery. Those packs were pretty nasty when you were in 450 blues. Also Gekkan on Heroic (I think it was Gekkan? The Saurok boss in Mogu'shan Palace with the minions) needed CC to keep the Hexer and the Priest out of the way. It maybe helped on those heavy-hitting packs in Scarlet Monastery (Scarlet Myrmidon?)

    That's all I can recall, and of course this is about launch.
    If nothing else CC certainly made Gekkan faster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  2. #162
    High Overlord Sygil's Avatar
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    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah. Either all my groups sucked cause we couldn't brute force his adds when doing heroics for the first time, or Celestion's right.

  3. #163
    Legendary! Raiju's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sygil View Post
    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah. Either all my groups sucked cause we couldn't brute force his adds when doing heroics for the first time, or Celestion's right.
    As I just mentioned above, you didn't cc because you'd die - you cc'd because it was faster than dealing with stun, damage reduction, heal and curse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    which is kind of like saying "of COURSE you can't see the unicorns, unicorns are invisible, silly."

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Sygil View Post
    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah. Either all my groups sucked cause we couldn't brute force his adds when doing heroics for the first time, or Celestion's right.
    No, that still wouldn't make Celestion correct.

  5. #165
    Legendary! Granyala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nivrax View Post
    Two shot not one shot, but maybe bit overblown. One of few memories I have from this time was Sethekk Halls twin guards before each room. Hit like trucks, root one, kill other, first enrage and you better mash that heal button or tank goes splat.
    And you better hope that tank can hold your heal aggro if you're both in crap gear.
    I had to 2 heal these mobs because after a few seconds, they thought me WAAY more sexy than that tank who tried to tear their armor off. :X

    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah.
    Interrupt aura guy & mark him as a priority target
    After that, kill the Healer.

    No CC was required.
    You can't properly CC these anyway, b/c he gives them a buff, making them immune to all cc after a few seconds.
    Last edited by Granyala; 2014-01-30 at 03:33 PM.

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  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Lagmonster View Post
    Yeah that really sucked those first few weeks. Was hilarious how H. Pally could heal through the normal stupid, but any other healer was oom in like 20 seconds if shit went wrong. Good times
    And that's how the game should be. Exactly like that. The healer should be able to heal unavoidable damage, the tank, and cover up a few mistakes. But if more than one person repeatedly fucks up, the group should be under huge threat of a wipe. It was an incredibly fun period and felt like a period of progression all by itself. One of my best times in WoW. And even then, once healers got geared and got some more regen, a lot of those heroics slowly turned into more of a burn down fest. There really is no need for such a low difficulty of any dungeon.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkol View Post
    And that's how the game should be. Exactly like that. The healer should be able to heal unavoidable damage, the tank, and cover up a few mistakes. But if more than one person repeatedly fucks up, the group should be under huge threat of a wipe. It was an incredibly fun period and felt like a period of progression all by itself. One of my best times in WoW. And even then, once healers got geared and got some more regen, a lot of those heroics slowly turned into more of a burn down fest. There really is no need for such a low difficulty of any dungeon.
    I was more pointing out the huge gap between healers at the start of Cata. And the fact that some healers didn't even have enough mana/regen to heal when everything was going right, let alone wrong.(hello priest) While others (Hi H.Pally) could steam roll heal through just about anything like it was wrath all over again. By the time the nerfs/buffs went in, it didn't really matter anymore as everyone had some gear. To me the content wasn't even all that hard in 4.0, it just felt like the healer was the real limiter to the group. Which was why you seen such a healing exodus during that time. Because the healers were being blamed when groups failed. This was exacerbated by "lol my pally friend can heal this just fine". And to make a note, I was tanking on my pally during 4.0., not even being biased as some butt hurt healer from back then.

    My point I guess, is that I just hated 4.0 for that very reason, for the first few weeks. The blame could always be so easily passed off on "bad healers". Because the mechanics to punish the dps/tank for doing stupid shit most of the time wasn't very good. And the healing was terribly unbalanced. I imagine I would have had a nicer time those first few weeks if I hadn't been solo/duo queuing so much, and running exclusively with only guild mates.
    Last edited by Lagmonster; 2014-01-30 at 05:18 PM.
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  8. #168
    I'm going to assume he was talking about challenge modes.

    Because every other (heroic) dungeon was just an AoE-spamfest with tanks that tried to race you to the finish...

    They even seemed to encourage the behaviour with the very first trashpacks in the first raiddungeon of MoP.
    Last edited by Anarch the Subduer; 2014-01-30 at 05:20 PM.
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  9. #169
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sygil View Post
    I remember using cc for Gekkan in Mogushan Palace...so yeah. Either all my groups sucked cause we couldn't brute force his adds when doing heroics for the first time, or Celestion's right.
    I was playing at release, and every time I tried to CC them, the tank would deliberately break it and drag them all into a pile.

    Was this smart? No, not really. But it was LFD. I just took them down in the correct order and kept interrupts applied. No real issues other than a small bit of wasted time.

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Giscoicus View Post
    Because he only ran THAT DAY right? Not in the whole week until raids opened up.
    A day, or a whole week, doesn't really move the needle here. You moved from the 0.01 percent to the 0.1 percent of people dedicated enough to play, what, 15 to 20 hours of content the week of launch? Maybe more, depending how quickly you can progress through things.

    Heck, I can't find a reliable source of stats, so being generous and assuming that ten percent of players are excited enough to hit 90 in the first week, you are still talking about a pretty select subset of folks. Who know what they are doing, because they have been here for the last 85 levels -- not the new players facing off at least a week or two to hit 85 and start MoP content.

  11. #171
    The Patient Trollfat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarkol View Post
    It was an incredibly fun period and felt like a period of progression all by itself. One of my best times in WoW.
    With difficult dungeons left at the wayside, I feel like I've been missing one of my best friends in MoP
    You can use Raid Finder to join a 25-player raid for some of the most epic experiences World of Warcraft has to offer.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by SlippyCheeze View Post
    A day, or a whole week, doesn't really move the needle here. You moved from the 0.01 percent to the 0.1 percent of people dedicated enough to play, what, 15 to 20 hours of content the week of launch? Maybe more, depending how quickly you can progress through things.

    Heck, I can't find a reliable source of stats, so being generous and assuming that ten percent of players are excited enough to hit 90 in the first week, you are still talking about a pretty select subset of folks. Who know what they are doing, because they have been here for the last 85 levels -- not the new players facing off at least a week or two to hit 85 and start MoP content.
    You didn't really counter his point. Its not like people generally only ran heroics the first day they hit max level.. they ran them for valor for a long time most likely.

  13. #173
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    From the front page Developer Interview highlights:

    Warlords of Draenor PvE
    • The developers realize that there is still an audience for Burning Crusade level difficulty Heroic dungeons. Challenge modes were designed to be harder content, but the focus is on speed and not as much on having to use as much CC, so they don't capture the essence of Burning Crusade era Heroics.
    • One idea that came up for Warlords of Draenor was offering a chance of LFR level rewards for completing hard dungeons with a deliberate pace. This would give players that wanted more challenging content a way to do harder content with friends and still be rewarded well.
    • Mythic dungeons are also a possibility for the future, though none are planned right now.

    So, whatever, haha. It sounds the overall design team acknowledges dungeons aren't what they once were for experienced players.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Your experience is not everyone's experience. Just because you managed to brute-force your way through every dungeon trash pack & boss doesn't mean the rest of WoW did.
    Uh, where do I get this legendary mystical "everyone's experience" where CC is useful at any point in MoP dungeon? Do you forget that we generally random queue with 4 others, so in addition to "my experience" I also get "4 other, every time different people's experience"? I never once seen a CC in MoP dungeon. I never seen once anyone recommend or ask for CC in dungeon. Are you saying that all those dirty little MoP CCers are just that good at being sneaky that despite there being LOTS, no MOUNTAINS of them we didn't ever get to see even one?

    Or maybe we'll borrow good 'ol uncle Occam's razor to cut down this useless fantasy and conclude that nobody needs CC in MoP dungeons for anything?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    "You are more experienced than most" "It was not the experience of the majority" - why am I not surprised that to people here it translates to "A member of the WoW team tells me about something where they have factual data - they must be lying, because me and my buddies have a different experience"
    Same question: where the hell is this majority? If they are "majority", then how come I never see them in random dungeons?

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