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  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Thimagryn View Post
    They are both evidenced as using technology. In fact, every race has, simply by taking the Engineering profession. There's no limitations on what race can or can not use tech.
    well tinkers needs patterns, workshops, a lot of resources(have you ever seen Night Elven or Tauren refinery :P?). they are able to be engineers because it's easy for adventurers to get few tools and materials and create small devices but Tinkers requires whole industry :P

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Garrosh turns the Orcs into a tech race.
    Even were that to be true, he turns the Iron Horde into a tech race. As it is, the Iron Horde simply adapt - with help - on piece of tech to other uses. That doesn't make them a tech race.

    EJL

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    People often make this argument in support of a DH class implementation, but I simply don't believe that such an implementation would have such a positive impact on the game. In fact, I believe that such an implementation would have a negative impact on the game.

    One only needs to look towards the DK implementation back in WotLK for evidence. DKs, while eventually a solid addition to the class lineup, also spurred a lot of negative feelings among the established community. Many people viewed them with disdain due to their free level up to 55, their ridiculous power levels, and the type of crowd they attracted. I couldn't have been the only person who saw many guilds refusing to allow DKs into raids and dungeon runs.

    As DKs balanced out, their popularity waned. They went from being the most popular class in WoW, to being about mid-tier. To this day, many people STILL have issues with DKs being in the game. Despite the Monk class not setting the world on fire in terms of adoption, many people still said that Monks were better implemented than DKs, and Monk players in general get more respect than DK players do.

    A DH addition would be even worse than the DK addition. Why? Because a Demon Hunter class implementation immediately damages three existing classes; Rogues, Hunters, and especially Warlocks. At least DKs were unique, and didn't really step on the toes of existing classes. The very name Demon Hunter overlaps with the vanilla Hunter class. The DH playstyle would immediately eclipse Rogues and Warlocks because DHs would almost assuredly enter the game as a hero class.

    DH fans, please tell me why anyone would roll a Rogue or a Warlock when a DH has been shown to be able to stealth, dual-wield, teleport through shadows, use demonic magic, use demonic minions, use ranged magic, transform into a demon, tank, AND start at level 55-75? I know I wouldn't play as a Warlock or a Rogue if a Demon Hunter was in the game. Why bother? The DH does everything both of those classes do, only better and with a lot more style.

    If I had leveled my Rogue or Warlock to 100, and Blizzard brought a class into the game that pretty much renders my main class obsolete, I wouldn't be happy about it. If I had Rogue and Warlock friends who quit WoW because their class got hijacked by this new OP class, I wouldn't be happy about it. If I were a raid leader who had to deal with a sudden influx of melee DHs trying to get raid spots, I wouldn't be happy about it. If I were a PvPer that had to deal with yet another OP hero class that every FotMer was rolling, I wouldn't be happy about it. If I was relaxing outside of Goldshire and suddenly see hundreds of Night Elves running around with names like XxIllidanXxX I wouldn't be happy about it.

    And on and on and on.

    In short, there's very little positive that this class would bring into the game. A mechanical/technology class on the other hand would be extremely positive for the game because it doesn't trample on any existing class themes, probably wouldn't be a hero class, gives Gnomes and Goblins a class that reflects their engineering culture, and represents a part of WoW that is underrepresented in the classes. Would there be ton of players for this tech class? Probably not as many as a DH class, but the tech class wouldn't negatively impact the game as much as a DH class would.
    You're right 110% about it probably having a negative impact on the game, still that's not what I'm saying at all. DKs were completely broken for most of the expac but a high level DK for every player and the DK themed expac sold ridiculously well. When you ask what was the best expansion WOTLK is pretty much regarded as the best (I personally preferred tbc). DKs best addition to the game? Arguable. But without a question WOTLK was considered the hight of WoW due to a new class that was heavy in lore and the class you got was a fan favourite just like Demon hunters are. There's no denying that.

    I was talking financially best for the game not class balance (which arguably can be achieved with time anyway) And Blizzard are smart (kinda) I'm sure they have more resources nowadays to avoid similar problems as the DK introduction - see monks.

  4. #264
    i could go along with tech class, and strongly agree with the notion that any race can be one. it is those that choose not to use it, and as stated above, would be tauren and night elves. but why would trolls and pandaran have use for technology? i agree with blood elves and the mana bomb, arcane golem synergy, however i am not familiar with the lore and am questioning who created the golems and bombs? was it in fact the blood elves?

    we could speculate that it could be mail wearing, ranged/melee specialization class. an ability to summon mechanical objects to help with fighting or healing perhaps? its a pipe dream really, but never know. closest thing i could compare to is possibly the powertech from swtor, or the engineer from gw2.

    i say instead of bickering, just be patient and excited when/if they announce a new class

  5. #265
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Even were that to be true, he turns the Iron Horde into a tech race. As it is, the Iron Horde simply adapt - with help - on piece of tech to other uses. That doesn't make them a tech race.

    EJL
    So when the Japanese adopted western technology, recreated it into distinctly Japanese tech, and went on to crush the very western countries they got the technology from, they didn't become a technological race?

    Technology is clearly a big part of the Iron Horde.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    You're right 110% about it probably having a negative impact on the game, still that's not what I'm saying at all. DKs were completely broken for most of the expac but a high level DK for every player and the DK themed expac sold ridiculously well. When you ask what was the best expansion WOTLK is pretty much regarded as the best (I personally preferred tbc). DKs best addition to the game? Arguable. But without a question WOTLK was considered the hight of WoW due to a new class that was heavy in lore and the class you got was a fan favourite just like Demon hunters are. There's no denying that.

    I was talking financially best for the game not class balance (which arguably can be achieved with time anyway) And Blizzard are smart (kinda) I'm sure they have more resources nowadays to avoid similar problems as the DK introduction - see monks.
    Yeah, I don't even think its financially good for the game. A DH inclusion would actually probably cause a lot of people to quit because the servers would be quickly overrun with DH players. People are already sick of new melee classes. DHs would be the new melee class to end all new melee classes.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    So when the Japanese adopted western technology, recreated it into distinctly Japanese tech, and went on to crush the very western countries they got the technology from, they didn't become a technological race?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah, I don't even think its financially good for the game. A DH inclusion would actually probably cause a lot of people to quit because the servers would be quickly overrun with DH players. People are already sick of new melee classes. DHs would be the new melee class to end all new melee classes.
    DKs in Wrath totally destroy that argument.

  7. #267
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    DKs in Wrath totally destroy that argument.
    Well again, DKs were different than existing classes. Demon Hunters overlap heavily with multiple existing classes.

    Imagine a class that takes the best qualities of Warlocks, Hunters, and Rogues, and then add in the bonuses of a hero class.

    You can't really use DKs as an example, because they didn't render any classes obsolete. The DH class would.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Praetor View Post
    Mail armor, and possibly ranged weapons as well, since only one class uses them now.
    only 1 class uses int plate. so yeah the next mail armor class doesnt have to use range weapons.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zanjin/simple
    Horde: 5 trolls, 1 Tauren, 1 orc, 2 blood elves, 1 forsaken, and 1 Pandaren. Alliance: 4 Draenei, 3 gnomes, 3 dwarves, and
    Shada'in, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post25856782
    Brav'ar, Alama'zon(being renamed), race ideas.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Well again, DKs were different than existing classes. Demon Hunters overlap heavily with multiple existing classes.

    Imagine a class that takes the best qualities of Warlocks, Hunters, and Rogues, and then add in the bonuses of a hero class.

    You can't really use DKs as an example, because they didn't render any classes obsolete. The DH class would.
    I remember warriors were renderred useless for the first entire patch. Seriously no overlap? Everyone at the time were complaining they were just dark warriors. There was paladins and warriors already which held the same roles there was no real reason to add them (even from a lore perspective) other than to sell boxes I still remember the QQ now and don't claim there wasn't any. I remember spamming icy touch to 2k rating and topping damage meters to no end it was probably the worst the balance ever was in WoW that I can distinctively remmeber and a lot of players were quitting because of this.

    Still it was a financial gold mine and the expansion as a whole was a huge success.Fuck the overlap, I even agree with you but it didn't matter then and it wont matter now. For every person leaving the game because "oh there are too many DHs running about I quit" (I'm sceptical about this anyway since it wont be this bad)There will be two players returning to play as them to be lolillidan.

    I really see no difference to DHs being added to DKs.

  10. #270
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    only 1 class uses int plate. so yeah the next mail armor class doesnt have to use range weapons.
    Next expansion there will be no stats on armor, so the only deficient armor left is mail armor.

  11. #271
    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    Fuck the overlap, I even agree with you but it didn't matter then and it wont matter now. For every person leaving the game because "oh there are too many DHs running about I quit" (I'm sceptical about this anyway since it wont be this bad)There will be two players returning to play as them to be lolillidan.
    "lolillidan"... all I can picture is a young female Illidan dressed in stylized Victorian dress.

    but yeah. The overlap, and all sorts of other concerns are going to be secondary to game play mechanics and thematic appeal. No matter how we try to carve a guiding developmental strategy out of previous game play decisions, all of that can and will be discarded if they come up with a good idea and think people would like it.
    now taking suggestions for a new cartoon signature.

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Next expansion there will be no stats on armor, so the only deficient armor left is mail armor.
    *facepalm*

    there will be stats on armor. the primary stats change depending on the spec. so technically. there are still stats.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zanjin/simple
    Horde: 5 trolls, 1 Tauren, 1 orc, 2 blood elves, 1 forsaken, and 1 Pandaren. Alliance: 4 Draenei, 3 gnomes, 3 dwarves, and
    Shada'in, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post25856782
    Brav'ar, Alama'zon(being renamed), race ideas.

  13. #273
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkvoltinx View Post
    *facepalm*

    there will be stats on armor. the primary stats change depending on the spec. so technically. there are still stats.
    On the classes themselves, not the armor they pick up. So if you and your group run across some plate armor, DKs, Warriors, and Paladins can all benefit from it equally.

  14. #274
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    On the classes themselves, not the armor they pick up. So if you and your group run across some plate armor, DKs, Warriors, and Paladins can all benefit from it equally.
    it still has stats though.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zanjin/simple
    Horde: 5 trolls, 1 Tauren, 1 orc, 2 blood elves, 1 forsaken, and 1 Pandaren. Alliance: 4 Draenei, 3 gnomes, 3 dwarves, and
    Shada'in, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post25856782
    Brav'ar, Alama'zon(being renamed), race ideas.

  15. #275
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Blizzard will NOT annoy Warlocks or any other class simply to bring in Demon Hunters.
    For the record, I did a poll in the warlock forum last year which asked "Do warlocks prevent a future demon hunter class from being added?".

    62% of respondents said "No".

    There was a lot of mixed sentiment in the thread about the possibility of adding a DH fourth spec to warlocks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    Even were that to be true, he turns the Iron Horde into a tech race. As it is, the Iron Horde simply adapt - with help - on piece of tech to other uses. That doesn't make them a tech race.

    EJL
    IIRC, they said at Blizzcon that the Iron Horde we'll see has been building machines for only two years. As I see it, Garrosh hasn't turned the orcs into a "tech" race, he's brought them an Industrial Revolution.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    Technology is clearly a big part of the Iron Horde.
    As I said...even were your argument valid - the Iron Horde is not a playable faction.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2014-02-06 at 11:08 PM.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by Teriz View Post
    On the classes themselves, not the armor they pick up. So if you and your group run across some plate armor, DKs, Warriors, and Paladins can all benefit from it equally.
    spirit, which they've indicated will be a needed stat for healers, will appear on plate armor. So now it's spirit plate rather than int plate and the exact same problem.

    No, I don't think this means the next class is some ranged spirit plate user.
    now taking suggestions for a new cartoon signature.

  18. #278
    Bards in mail with ranged DPS as one spec (bows and instruments), melee DPS as one spec (daggers and instruments), and a healer spec (instruments.)

    That's it. Wouldn't be the first time Blizzard turned an April Foolks joke into something real. Bring in dance studio (lol yeah right) to compliment all the pretty music you're gonna hear, and bring in woodworking to make those instruments (among other things.)

    Oh, and just make sure one of those songs is a "charm humanoid" type of spell, like enslave demon. Just because.

    Enough of the DH crap. Bard FTW.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hrugner View Post
    spirit, which they've indicated will be a needed stat for healers, will appear on plate armor. So now it's spirit plate rather than int plate and the exact same problem.

    No, I don't think this means the next class is some ranged spirit plate user.
    Spirit is only appearing on jewelry, and the value of spirit will be adjusted accordingly so that 10 Spirit will do more in WoD than 10 Spirit does in MoP. NOT armor.

  19. #279
    Quote Originally Posted by Awarewolf View Post
    Bards in mail with ranged DPS as one spec (bows and instruments), melee DPS as one spec (daggers and instruments), and a healer spec (instruments.)

    That's it. Wouldn't be the first time Blizzard turned an April Foolks joke into something real. Bring in dance studio (lol yeah right) to compliment all the pretty music you're gonna hear, and bring in woodworking to make those instruments (among other things.)

    Oh, and just make sure one of those songs is a "charm humanoid" type of spell, like enslave demon. Just because.

    Enough of the DH crap. Bard FTW.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Spirit is only appearing on jewelry, and the value of spirit will be adjusted accordingly so that 10 Spirit will do more in WoD than 10 Spirit does in MoP. NOT armor.
    the image of a bard is basically a pure support class. which blizzard believes no one will want to play. so its not going to ever show up
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Zanjin/simple
    Horde: 5 trolls, 1 Tauren, 1 orc, 2 blood elves, 1 forsaken, and 1 Pandaren. Alliance: 4 Draenei, 3 gnomes, 3 dwarves, and
    Shada'in, http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...2#post25856782
    Brav'ar, Alama'zon(being renamed), race ideas.

  20. #280
    Immortal Teriz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Awarewolf View Post
    Bards in mail with ranged DPS as one spec (bows and instruments), melee DPS as one spec (daggers and instruments), and a healer spec (instruments.)

    That's it. Wouldn't be the first time Blizzard turned an April Foolks joke into something real. Bring in dance studio (lol yeah right) to compliment all the pretty music you're gonna hear, and bring in woodworking to make those instruments (among other things.)

    Oh, and just make sure one of those songs is a "charm humanoid" type of spell, like enslave demon. Just because.

    Enough of the DH crap. Bard FTW.
    I'd be fine with a Bard/Dancer class. They could make it similar to Ragnarok Online's Bard/Dancer which uses bows, and illusionary magic.

    I'd definitely prefer it over a DH class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    As I said...even were your argument valid - the Iron Horde is not a playable faction.

    EJL
    Ah, I see what you mean. I stand corrected.

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