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  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by blackblade View Post
    520 should be sufficient to start farming flex 1&2.
    As long as you're OK with being the first to be kicked from the Flex group after a wipe because your gear is all PvP gear, then sure. Then again, if your tanking they may be more forgiving.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by cabyio View Post
    You can try to help all you want, but if people are ignoring you, which happens alot, then your advice will do fuckall. No point in trying to help people that will ignore you.
    ^^^^
    This! A million times this.

    Its so frustrating trying to do your job and tank the fights, with DPS ninja pulling to speed things up and people flat ignoring fight mechanics. "Off the boss!" on Nazgrim in def stance gets an answer of "No!" - to the point we were almost getting 3 shotted. Its a frustrating exercise but if you want to tank and gear up, its one you have to put up with.
    Fate rarely calls at a moment of our choosing...

  3. #103
    Just know in LFR if a dps is clueless. The group can still easily succeed.

    If a healer is clueless, the group can still succeed.

    If a tank is clueless, the group will most likely fail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatel View Post
    "Off the boss!" on Nazgrim in def stance gets an answer of "No!" - to the point we were almost getting 3 shotted. Its a frustrating exercise but if you want to tank and gear up, its one you have to put up with.
    To be fair, attacking Nazgrim on def stance in LFR does like nothing anymore after the all the numerous nerfs.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Fatel View Post
    Its so frustrating trying to do your job and tank the fights, with DPS ninja pulling to speed things up and people flat ignoring fight mechanics. "Off the boss!" on Nazgrim in def stance gets an answer of "No!" - to the point we were almost getting 3 shotted. Its a frustrating exercise but if you want to tank and gear up, its one you have to put up with.
    The mechanic was stupid for LFR and has been nerfed to the point where it is now more beneficial to improve your chances of beating the enrage timer by applying DPS in Defensive Stance (despite the damage reduction in that phase) than it is to keep off of him. Ravager damage is easily healed through in LFR and the ravagers are only up for a minute. What you said was true when SOO LFR was first released, but it's now a non-issue. I've seen it done successfully both ways recently.

    A similar situation is when "real" raiders refuse to use the single stack strategy for Garrosh in LFR (aka Stack and Win) even though it is the easiest way to do it, even in Flex. They say silly things like, you will never do it in Normal mode if you don't learn how to do it right here as if that's even relevant to LFR. To me it's the equivalent of splitting into two groups for normal mode Morchok even though he only splits in heroic. In a single stack the tank doesn't have to gather adds, everyone is covered through AoE heals so mana regen is less of an issue for healers, mind controlled players are almost instantly handled through a couple of seconds of AoE, and you only have to scatter while the adds are popping up in the third phase before regrouping and AoEing them down because they don't buff or heal each other like in Normal+. Why wouldn't you want to stack for those benefits? The purpose of LFR is not to teach fights; it's meant to be a step up from vicariously experiencing the raid through a youtube video and nothing more.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Except (and I'm sounding like a broken record here) that Blizzard explicitly stated that LFR doesn't require preparation or effort in their Raid Finder Q&A:
    The quote from Blizzard doesn't mention effort or preparation at all. In fact, it reiterates that LFR is for people who aren't in a raiding guild or don't have time to be in one. By raiding they clearly mean raiding on a schedule. It's fairly easy to research fights and optimize your character without said schedule.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    That's why when players fail on the same mechanics over and over again in LFR they either get nerfed into irrelevance or go away entirely. That's why you can lose 20 people to the Durumu maze and still finish him off with two tanks, two DPS, and a healer. That's why Nazgrim's Ravagers hardly do damage any more and go away after a minute instead of remaining through the whole fight. That's why Warshamans now heal 1% per tick instead of 2%. That's why the group gets a 5% buff after every wipe. Every time Blizzard hotfixes this stuff there's outrage, but it makes no sense because Blizzard was up front in stating that their intention was for players to be able to queue and complete each wing in a timely manner.
    And yet people still wipe, and in your wonderful example you mentioned both tanks and healers surviving the encounter. What if neither of the tanks know the maze? What if all the healers die? What if they come ungemmed, unenchanted and unprepared? Back in ToT when people ignored nests on Ji-Kun it equated a wipe. If you aoe'd the Anima Golems it equated a wipe. If you didn't set groups for Lei Shen's intermission phase, it equated a wipe. Don't even get me started on Horridon. There are mechanics the raid in general has to follow in LFR for the run to be successful, even if it's infinitely more easy than normal or hard modes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    First of all, players reiterate that LFR isn't real raiding. Blizzard put the word "raid" in the official name of the system: Raid Finder. Some developers have personally stated that LFR doesn't "feel" like raiding, but that wasn't ever made into Blizzard's official stance. Raiding in WoW is whatever Blizzard says it is. It's their game, after all. The fact that you're fighting 25-man bosses and collecting loot at the end of the fights pretty much classifies it as raiding.
    You're echoing my statement here. I would certainly agree that LFR doesn't exactly feel like raiding, but that has more to do with a raid tier coming in 4 difficulty flavors.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    Because it is just fine. LFR was never designed to require that. It's your attitude that needs adjusting. Blizzard has acknowledged that the benefits of gems and enchants have gotten out of control and that's why they're drastically reducing their impact and even removing them entirely in some cases in WoD.
    No it isn't. If you can't pull the required dps and don't have someone in heroic gear carrying the group it's also a wipe. This counts especially for fights like Naz. Note that I was talking about Flex here, which is actually easier than LFR most of the time because players actually put a little more effort into their characters and preparation when they join a raid group.

  6. #106
    Threatplates
    Omen
    Ensidia Fails(requires some config to be effective tho)
    DBM or something equalent.
    Grid to see the raid and config it so you can see debuffs easier etc. depending on what tank you are and so forth.
    Tell Me When - Good for cooldowns, both debuffs and buffs etc.

    These are the main addons i use for tanking.
    twitch.tv/draahl - Watch me suck at virtually every game!

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orcindauh View Post
    To be fair, attacking Nazgrim on def stance in LFR does like nothing anymore after the all the numerous nerfs.
    It didn't do much in LFR before the nerfs.

    People should always have been attacking Nazgram in defensive stance in LFR, particularly early on, because groups were wiping due to enrage. If your group is wiping due to enrage, and Nazgrim hasn't received significant healing, then it's just dumb to stand around not attacking him 1/3 of the time.

    But it was instantly a "LFR how-to meme" and still is today.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    It didn't do much in LFR before the nerfs.

    People should always have been attacking Nazgram in defensive stance in LFR, particularly early on, because groups were wiping due to enrage. If your group is wiping due to enrage, and Nazgrim hasn't received significant healing, then it's just dumb to stand around not attacking him 1/3 of the time.

    But it was instantly a "LFR how-to meme" and still is today.
    Before the nerfs it was suicide to do that. Enrage was usually caused by people not killing shamans quick enough and they healed him up (they used to heal him a lot more than they do now) hitting him during his defensive stance just ensured we had loads of axes :<

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Templis View Post
    If you can't pull the required dps and don't have someone in heroic gear carrying the group it's also a wipe. This counts especially for fights like Naz. Note that I was talking about Flex here, which is actually easier than LFR most of the time because players actually put a little more effort into their characters and preparation when they join a raid group.
    This is contrary to my experience. My Flex completion rate is about 25%. My LFR completion rate is about 90%. Your statements about needing someone geared to carry the group are also false because every wipe gives a 5% buff up to 50%. So if you can't pull the required DPS this fight you will eventually be pulling it. The difference between LFR and actual raids is that the average player is expected to eventually complete a given wing by repeatedly running with the same group of people in normal raids over the course of weeks or months. LFR is designed to be completed in a single night by a random group. For the most part they've met that design goal, and in the few cases where it wasn't working out like that they nerfed it until it did.
    Quote Originally Posted by CandyCotton Marshmallows View Post
    People need to get over the gear color (and themselves). It doesn't matter, and it shouldn't matter what other players have either. Worry about your damn self. Live your life by that. If you want to concern yourself with someone else, then worry about HELPING them, not putting them down or making sure you stand out as better than them.
    Maybe the game would be better with more low DPS nice guys and fewer high DPS jerks? -- Ghostcrawler, Twitter, 6/29/13

  10. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronduwil View Post
    As long as you're OK with being the first to be kicked from the Flex group after a wipe because your gear is all PvP gear, then sure. Then again, if your tanking they may be more forgiving.
    Was a tank with ilvl 516 gear, cleared first 4 bosses on normal day one. So gear really isn't a factor

    Don't be afraid of tanking. It's quite easy. Just hold aggro and reduce your damage taken. Practice in heroic dungeons. If you can hold every boss through the whole fight and not take a shitton of damage, then your ready for LFR

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Nye the Spy View Post
    Was a tank with ilvl 516 gear, cleared first 4 bosses on normal day one. So gear really isn't a factor

    Don't be afraid of tanking. It's quite easy. Just hold aggro and reduce your damage taken. Practice in heroic dungeons. If you can hold every boss through the whole fight and not take a shitton of damage, then your ready for LFR
    Indeed I was a bit lower Ilevel than your self when I went into LFR for SoO (was 502 or something). As long as you know what you're doing and your gears gemmed (and hopefully enchanted) you should be OK. Slap on any upgrades you get as you go in.

  12. #112
    Just ignore all the internet warriors, usually get's them even more mad though hehe pretty funny to watch. If you cant ignore them remove chat or something and only talk to the off tank.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Before the nerfs it was suicide to do that. Enrage was usually caused by people not killing shamans quick enough and they healed him up (they used to heal him a lot more than they do now) hitting him during his defensive stance just ensured we had loads of axes :<
    First of all, there is ALWAYS someone attacking him in defensive stance, and 1 person causes the same minor rage gain as the entire group.

    Second, if you are wiping to enrage ... the INALTERABLE TRUTH is that you must KILL THE BOSS FASTER. That is the only option you have. If there is a period of time where you are standing around doing nothing to the boss, for no good reason (see "First"), then probably you should start attacking the boss instead.

  14. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    That is the only option you have.
    Not that you could actually, like, perform better?

  15. #115
    Part of growing up is screwing up.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Normie View Post
    First of all, there is ALWAYS someone attacking him in defensive stance, and 1 person causes the same minor rage gain as the entire group.

    Second, if you are wiping to enrage ... the INALTERABLE TRUTH is that you must KILL THE BOSS FASTER. That is the only option you have. If there is a period of time where you are standing around doing nothing to the boss, for no good reason (see "First"), then probably you should start attacking the boss instead.
    Sometimes there is someone always attacking him, usually its the guy whos maintanking him. The sad truth is that when it first came out most enrages I saw were down to warshamans healing him for too much and we lost out. I very rarely if ever saw people just standing around waiting to DPS the boss when it came out. That just did not happen. You may have had a different experience than I did but the enrages we had were not down to just slow dps on the boss warshamans were healing him for a huge amount and were not being killed fast enough as muppets just afk'd on the boss.

  17. #117
    Dreadlord Icaras's Avatar
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    I currently don't tank LFR for 2 reasons. 50% is a lack of desire to learn the tank strats for all the fights and I consider that a must if you intend to tank, at least in a pug group finder situation. There's enough resources out there that there is no excuse for not knowing.

    the other 50% is basically OPs points on fear of abuse, and just generally not wanting to put up with any sort of treatment like that.
    You must show no mercy, Nor have any belief whatsoever in how others judge you: For your greatness will silence them all!
    -Warrior Wisdom

  18. #118
    I'm a main spec healer and have done all the LFR dungeons. I have healed some....OMG horrible groups with completely clueless tanks. Most of the time you will get people like me who are nice enough to give you an overview of the fight mechanics, with really from a tank's point of view are not complicated at all. However, they are indeed essential for completing the boss. Simple things like stand here, separate the two bosses, taunt between stacks (just a couple examples). Anyways, my advice to you is of course, download and install DBM or one of it's counterparts whichever will alert you to what the boss is about to do next and such. Also you tube a few encounters you are unclear about if you want. Do some warm up dungeons then just jump in to LFR. May be a good idea to alert the raid (healers especially) that you are new to the dungeon so that someone can give quick recaps. All in all, don't grieve on what the little kiddies say to you. Fail groups happen all the time and won't go on your FBI permanent record. lol. Practice makes perfect. Be confident and you will do fine.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Sometimes there is someone always attacking him, usually its the guy whos maintanking him. The sad truth is that when it first came out most enrages I saw were down to warshamans healing him for too much and we lost out. I very rarely if ever saw people just standing around waiting to DPS the boss when it came out. That just did not happen. You may have had a different experience than I did but the enrages we had were not down to just slow dps on the boss warshamans were healing him for a huge amount and were not being killed fast enough as muppets just afk'd on the boss.
    The wipes during the first couple of weeks were generally due to enrage at 20-30%, before the continuous adds even had a chance to spawn.

    The groups didn't have the DPS to kill Nazgrim without DPSing him at all times, not until about 5 stacks. They did not have a CHANCE to kill him without determination (even if they stuck to him in defensive).

    I did see wipes at 50-100M where Nazgrim had been down to 10-30M and was then healed, but usually that was because a bunch of people started dying in the continuous add spawns and the warshamans healed Nazgrim and everything went to shit. But that was not the typical wipe.

    The tank with the debuff doesn't generate rage from his attacks (pretty much everyone knows this) and pets alone don't generate rage either (some people firmly refuse to believe this even with blue posts to the contrary).

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xhala View Post
    May be a good idea to alert the raid (healers especially) that you are new to the dungeon so that someone can give quick recaps.
    Don't do this... It will only lead to the new-to-tanking Tank being abused and berated.
    It will cause insults and negative attitudes to develop before you've even had a chance to test your skills.
    If you haven't got the time to look up a wing before you go(which tbh takes you about 5min),
    then whisper the other tank and ask them for help.

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