View Poll Results: Will WoD be any different?

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  • Same ol' Fate

    48 66.67%
  • Blizz Actually Cares This Time

    12 16.67%
  • Not the Red-headed step child

    12 16.67%
  1. #1

    Shadow PvE in WoD... Same ol' story?

    These examples are for the average-above average shadow priest.
    Shadow in TBC, only used for mana battery, really only competed in T6 with warlocks' Curse of shadows.
    Shadow in WoLK, really only competitive at the very end (Pre-Cata release) when dots were effected by haste.
    Shadow in Cata, really only competitive when Blizz fixed the expansion long complaints of RNG with the last 4pc bonus.
    Shadow in Mists, started competitive but now...

    Shadow in WoD... Clarity of Power + Solace & Insanity sounds really good, however, IF it is amazing, then few Spriests will be dotting. Which means blizz will hack either of these two talents, and follow the trend of just nerfing rather than fixing. We always seem to get promises of attention pre-release, but then the nerfs / "normalization" attempts surely come.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    The way you're making it sound is like Shadow has had only a few points where it was competitive and viable, that's just bullshit.
    To me it sounds like you are very pressimistic

    I have a friend who always treats DPS rankings like noxxic etc. like it's the Bible or something.
    For example when a low ranked spec is nr.1 on the meters he is like:"Oh the other specs were slacking".
    Ofcourse some specs are stronger than others but people seem to forget some crucial parts.
    For example fun, if you like your character you will find a way to make it work for you and you will put anything to work to become as powerfull as the mages or locks in your raid.
    Another example is personal skill, if you play an excellent shadowpriest it will beat average locks or hunters etc.

    I do know that it's frustrating because it isn't always sunshine as shadowpriest, but I personally find that one of the attractive aspects of playing a shadowpriest and see it as a challenge to do good dps because we're on the bottom of the dps rankings.
    There are plenty of guilds who have 1-2 Shadowpriests in their raid on heroic Garrosh and as long as that's the case I'll be trying my best to keep improving and to be up there in the top of the dps meters.

    Maybe my post is like talking to a brick wall but I hope it gives you an insight in how to approach your priest and that it isn't always about how high Shadow is on the rankings. If I were you I would really take a look at yourself and ask yourself the queston: How much do I like Spriest and the challenge of doing good dps with it and how much do I like that easy FotM dps spec?
    Because it sounds to me like you gave up on Shadow because sites say it's the lowest dps spec.

    TLDR: Be less pessimistic and see it as a challenge to make it work and not as an excuse.

  3. #3
    Shadow was great in cata. Pre DS too. I rolled priest in cata, and I much prefer that version of the shadow priest to the one we see today. Sure it was a little rng with the orbs and stuff, but I liked the gameplay (not to mention numbers were high).

    MoP shadow gameplay, meh, I don't mind it. It's not fantastic but not bad. Could use some QoL changes though (some have already been adressed for WoD). Numbers have been on the lower side unfortunately. We may not have been competative DPS-wise, but we do bring other things to a raid, such as offhealing. I generally think we're in an allright spot, if you don't compare to a warlock or mage.

    I don't nessecarily think shadow was "neglected" in the past, but more the fact that hybrid tax was (and still is) a factor.

    There are usually many multi-dot fights each tier. I doubt the Clarity talent will win on such fights. Maybe on fights with little multidotting.. But this is all just guesswork.

  4. #4
    FYI. I have 2 80s and 2 85s. All four haven't earned a single xp since those expansions. My SP is 90; I hope that clarifies my loyalty to the spec. I understand performance is skill, fight setup, and gear based; hence why I said avg - above avg. However, if all three factors are equal over a raid, so should be the contribution. Anchoring on hps+dps equivalent to a mage's dps supports the hybrid tax.
    Last edited by problydrunk; 2014-02-12 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Clarification

  5. #5
    Shadow was competive from 3.3 to 5.0. And even before 3.3 we were doing really good on specific encounters. But when (in 5.0) our dots became a source of unreliable and sometimes useless procs, our multidot damage couldn't compensate low single target dps anymore.
    As for "same old story" in WoD. For me it's:
    a) Low aoe damage buffed by 20%-50% in 6.0-6.1 and still being low till the end of WoD.
    b) MB, SWD or dots buffed and buffs reverted each PTR or after 1-2 weeks on live while others keeping rediculous stuff (like Destro locks keeping 2 embers from Shadowburn)
    c) overnerf in PvP hurting PvE just to make sure shadow is not OP on arenas.
    d) people like me who love shadow still play it hoping that shadow gets better one day.
    Last edited by Forsay; 2014-02-12 at 07:59 AM.

  6. #6
    I think the position Blizz should take is to take the lowest performing damage class/spec (Shadow Priests) and break every other damage class/spec down to their restrictions. This would include restrictions to mobility, set up time, resource management, and reduced/restricted CC.


    CC - For things like Silence (or Counterspell... which is just better, go figure) - the CD should be 30 seconds if used on an NPC for PvE, and 45 seconds for PvP. IMO chained cc should have an increased DR across the board to help deal with CC chains that last for up to 30 seconds. Intelligent use of CC is what PVP needs, among other things.

    Mobility - If players want mobility it needs to come at a price (KJC and Warlocks for example) OR it needs to be built into the bloody mechanics of the environment and then become moot ( for PvE and PvP).

    Resources/Set up time - Shadow Orbs, we need to be able to hold more than 3. 5 would be good, 6 would be better. All other classes either need to have their resources decay so they need to be built up via combat, or Spriests need an ability to gather 3 of these at the beginning of the fight (Once per fight kind of CD would be fine). Also, all classes should require a few seconds to get their damage rolling, rather than be able to dump truck right off the bat. Damage modiying buffs via dots on the target is potentially a good way to go about this.

    All damage class/specs NEED to have some set set up where they have access to comparable burst damage. This will help ensure that all dmg dealers will be competative for PvE and will balance out the LOLURDED elements of high burst pvp.


    I'm glad Blizzard is trying to reduce button and ability bloat and that they're visiting concerns. I just really hope they can actually make something happen, because if the reports coming out of the WoD Beta don't indicate that Shadow is competative for the top 3 damage again, I won't bother coming back to WoW, and I wouldn't recommend any other disillunsioned Priest do so either.

  7. #7
    I hope there will be good stuff for Spriest. I'm planning to reroll from ret paladin to shadow next addon.

  8. #8
    Spriest will still be terrible like they have always been.

  9. #9
    Field Marshal Harukaa's Avatar
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    I hope we're going to be at a better place once WOD comes. They are giving us two rotations, one single target, and the normal multi-dot. So I hope we have a chance at being "balanced" a little better.

  10. #10
    the biggest problem shadow has right now is mobility - we lose more dps than any other class while moving, and we tend to also go OOM during protracted periods of movement. our execute is extremely high (which is great at the start of a tier, but as you push kill times lower and lower executes become less relevant) which is actually pretty nice as spriests tend to be among the last raiders to die. if they were to nerf other classes mobility capabilities, shadow would be in a MUCH better place.

  11. #11
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Upon the faint winds of The Void - beneath the indecipherable songs of the distant Voidwhales - soft words whisper beyond the keen ears of all but the most astute of High Priests - not of doom and sorrow - but of hope anew.

    "Could it be worse?", we ask, as we meditate upon the many paths the forests of fate could twist. The safe bet is that it could not, for while it could - surely the odds are in our favour: so much above us, so little below. Hope is the safer bet - it is the logical probability - but the winds of The Void follow no logic, know no rules - they speak - and we must listen: and have faith.

    I ask you, fellow priests, to take faith upon the whispering words of The Void - as they have come to me. Not because it is logical or likely, but because the very Void wills our rise to power. Have faith, my kin - for while even I secretly fear that hope unrequited is the most dangerous weapon of all - I choose to hope.
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

  12. #12
    If Blizzard does their job then from a min-max PoV you're going to prefer one over the other on different fights on progress. This is how it currently is with T3, T5, and T6 (heck even with T1/T2/T4 and glyphs till some extend). So its probably going to be good on certain fights, but not good enough on other fights. Since we don't know anything about the content yet it is difficult to say.

    Blizzard has said they aim for at least 2 out of 3 talents to be viable. Which means if only 1 T7 talent is viable (say, the one you mention), Blizzard has failed. If all 3 are viable, they did a very good job.
    "When i am done with you, you won't trust your own mind."

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    Upon the faint winds of The Void - beneath the indecipherable songs of the distant Voidwhales - soft words whisper beyond the keen ears of all but the most astute of High Priests - not of doom and sorrow - but of hope anew.

    "Could it be worse?", we ask, as we meditate upon the many paths the forests of fate could twist. The safe bet is that it could not, for while it could - surely the odds are in our favour: so much above us, so little below. Hope is the safer bet - it is the logical probability - but the winds of The Void follow no logic, know no rules - they speak - and we must listen: and have faith.

    I ask you, fellow priests, to take faith upon the whispering words of The Void - as they have come to me. Not because it is logical or likely, but because the very Void wills our rise to power. Have faith, my kin - for while even I secretly fear that hope unrequited is the most dangerous weapon of all - I choose to hope.
    You need to write the next few books.

    OT: I think they'll get it right this time around, or HOPING they do. And if they do, a fortunate Undead / Blood Elf will get a free boost to 90

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