Will Tinkers be a class in WoW?

[Teriz]

One is a bomb, and the other is a bomb?

Which is like saying a paper airplane is the same as a 747. A plane is a plane right?

Yay, insults and distorting words! The last resorts of the ones without arguments!

Where's the insult?

This whole quote? Proof that you ignore everything that counters your arguments.

Your response is proof that your "whimsical" argument is invalid.

Because nobody can use Titan tech. With technology, it's either everyone can use it, or no one can. Your 'hammer tank'? Nowhere near as 'advanced' as you claim it to be. I'd argue it's even less advanced than the Sky Golem.

Which again is nonsense. No one is born knowing how to use tech. You have to be taught how to use it, or build it. So there's tech that some people can use, and there's tech that only experts can use.

The Hammer Tank clearly falls in the latter category.

[Ielenia]

Which is like saying a paper airplane is the same as a 747. A plane is a plane right?

No, I'm saying a private jet and a Boing 747 are both planes.

Where's the insult?

Calling people 'bad' when you can't counter-argument them.

Your response is proof that your "whimsical" argument is invalid.

It's not invalid. It's pretty much valid. The 'hit people with beer' already exists in WoW pre-MoP, yet your 'backpack tank' does not exist. That is evidence against your theory.

Which again is nonsense. No one is born knowing how to use tech. You have to be taught how to use it, or build it. So there's tech that some people can use, and there's tech that only experts can use.
The Hammer Tank clearly falls in the latter category.

The Sky Golem is arguably as 'complicated' to maneuver as your 'backpack tank', and everyone can use it. That goes against your theory.

[Drilnos]

Teriz in wow the gnomish death ray is a laser. Hatecore isnt bad, youre just ignorant.

It's a bolt of electricity, actually.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=10645#

Lasers are straight. Not wobbly.

[Teriz]

No, I'm saying a private jet and a Boing 747 are both planes.

And the bombs that Engineering makes are like paper airplanes, and Tinker bombs are like 747s.

Calling people 'bad' when you can't counter-argument them.

Saying that two different things are "the same" is pretty bad.

It's not invalid. It's pretty much valid. The 'hit people with beer' already exists in WoW pre-MoP, yet your 'backpack tank' does not exist. That is evidence against your theory.

Again, the argument wasn't precedent, it was how "whimsical" one concept was to another.

The Sky Golem is arguably as 'complicated' to maneuver as your 'backpack tank', and everyone can use it. That goes against your theory.

The difference being that Sky Golem is common in the Engineering profession while the Tinker abilities are non-existent in the Engineering profession, yet pops up elsewhere.

[Ielenia]

And the bombs that Engineering makes are like paper airplanes, and Tinker bombs are like 747s.
Saying that two things that are nothing like are "the same" is pretty bad.

That's only in your mind. They are the same thing.

Again, the argument wasn't precedent, it was how "whimsical" one concept was to another.

Just ask anyone what's more 'whymsical': hitting people on the head with a keg of beer and setting them on fire, or going around with a enormous robotic backpack with rockets, bombs, lasers and robot factories?

The difference being that Sky Golem is common in the Engineering profession while the Tinker abilities are non-existent in the Engineering profession, yet pops up elsewhere.

The same applies to your 'Hammer Tank'. It's not how common or uncommon something is: it's its ease of use, and I argue that both are just as equal, with the sky golem being a tad more complicated than the tank.

[Sukhoi]

It's a bolt of electricity, actually.

http://www.wowhead.com/item=10645#

Lasers are straight. Not wobbly.

Okay.. only the animation is wobbly.. its still a laser. Its the engineering laser. Another reason why tinkers wont happen.

Everything a tinker can do according to you guys can be done with engineering. Bias is preventing you from being rational.

[Teriz]

That's only in your mind. They are the same thing.

Engineering bombs are toys, just like paper airplanes. Tinker bombs are functional weapons. That's a fact.

Just ask anyone what's more 'whymsical': hitting people on the head with a keg of beer and setting them on fire, or going around with a enormous robotic backpack with rockets, bombs, lasers and robot factories?

Yeah, I'm willing to bet that the beer thing would be considered far more whimsical.

The same applies to your 'Hammer Tank'. It's not how common or uncommon something is: it's its ease of use, and I argue that both are just as equal, with the sky golem being a tad more complicated than the tank.

More common implies ease of construction. Everyone piloting it implies ease of use. Rarity implies difficulty of construction. Few people using it effectively implies only experts can use/pilot it.

[Drilnos]

Okay.. only the animation is wobbly.. its still a laser. Its the engineering laser. Another reason why tinkers wont happen.

Everything a tinker can do according to you guys can be done with engineering. Bias is preventing you from being rational.

Tooltip says it's made of life energy. Lasers are made of light.

[Sukhoi]

Tooltip says it's made of life energy. Lasers are made of light.

Its a power source. Lasers need a power source.

[Ielenia]

Engineering bombs are toys, just like paper airplanes. Tinker bombs are functional weapons. That's a fact.

Those are not toys. Those are real bombs. Game mechanics are the only thing preventing them from dealing any kind of functional damage and you know it. Tinker bombs are engineering bombs. That's a fact.

Yeah, I'm willing to bet that the beer thing would be considered far more whimsical.

Again, in your mind, of course.

More common implies ease of construction. Everyone piloting it implies ease of use. Rarity implies difficulty of construction. Few people using it effectively implies only experts can use/pilot it.

And since the Sky Golem can be built by all engineers and be piloted by everyone, that means your 'tank', if it existed at all, would be able to be built by all engineers and worn by all.

[Drilnos]

Its a power source. Lasers need a power source.

They also need to be focused. Rays are diffuse. I know you only started down this road because you only ever read the name and assumed that was everything you needed to know about it, but in every way it fails to meet the very specific definition of a laser. Every beam of electromagnetic radiation is not a laser, despite the inverse being true. Continuing to insist this does not make you sound smart.

[Thimagryn]

I really hate how obsessive people get over that "whimsical" comment without retaining the context of it. Not that I'm married to the idea that the class needs a Claw-Pack

The idea of the Claw Pack being enforced by Teriz is similarly to saying a Brewmaster would have to have a Keg weapon because it's iconic to the class. Well the Brewmaster has Keg Smash, so that's a fair compromise, right? Yet Teriz is arguing for something beyond that, making up arbitrary rules to reinforce the idea that Robot Arms are somehow necessary to a Player Class.

In point of fact they're never going to produce a class utterly devoid of whimsicality. If they did, no-one would want to play it. Who wants to be a Certified Public Accountant in a world of fantasy and adventure? Who wants to play with the Serious Putty? Nobody. It's boring.

Well you're taking it in the opposite direction. None of us are saying a class needs to be devoid of whimsy. We're just pointing out the fact that the Tinker was designed specifically as an April Fools joke, and GC commented on the very issue of that concept being too whimsical. He even offered alternatives for a more down-to-earth concept based on Lucca from ChronoTrigger, who isn't as visually eccentric. She still uses robots and lasers, but without the outlandish contraptions of the Goblin Tinker or Gazlowe. Fair compromise to a Tinker class, isn't it?

[Psychotrip]

I hope not. They are too close to engineers, i doubt blizz will want to add tinkers.

Thats like saying "I don't like mages. They're too close to scribes and enchanters".

Just like magic classes are different from magic professions, so too can a tech class be different from a tech profession.

Here's how a tinker class could work. Everything here is taken from the WoWrpg:

The tinker class would be a mail wearing hybrid class, each spec filling a different role. The tank class would be the steam warrior. The steam warrior would be a tank who pilots a giant robot (similar to goblin golems and the like) to shred his enemies apart with buzzer saws and burn them with your flamethrower. The techslayer is a ranged dps class that uses guns (FINALLY someone else using ranged weapons other than hunters. Seriously it's getting silly), explosives as well as gadgets and "turrets". Turrets are similar to totems, in that there are several types and each type can only be used once at a time. They use these in place of pets to snare enemies, CC them, and dps them. The apothecary is a medic-based healing spec that uses syringes, smashes vials full of healing medicine, and has some DoT damage from poisons and toxins.

This is a class that CAN work, and fills the only empty space for a class WoW has left (that's not to say there cant be any more classes, but it's the last empty niche WoW has: a tech class) and we need it. It fits the universe, and it almost feels like something is missing when I play a gnome, dwarf, or goblin. Particularly for rpers, who have no options if they want to play as a tinker and use explosives and gadgets in combat in a way that's actually viable.

[Sukhoi]

They also need to be focused. Rays are diffuse. I know you only started down this road because you only ever read the name and assumed that was everything you needed to know about it, but in every way it fails to meet the very specific definition of a laser. Every beam of electromagnetic radiation is not a laser, despite the inverse being true. Continuing to insist this does not make you sound smart.

I just said they needed a power source. Hahahahahaha. Fucking relax. Its like anyone that interrupts your daydream of tinkers is attacked.

For all intents and purposes thats your tinker laser. Sorry you dont want to accept evidence and facts.

Looking something up on wikipedia enough to throw some bullshit explanation togethers not impressing anyone

[Ielenia]

They also need to be focused. Rays are diffuse. I know you only started down this road because you only ever read the name and assumed that was everything you needed to know about it, but in every way it fails to meet the very specific definition of a laser. Every beam of electromagnetic radiation is not a laser, despite the inverse being true. Continuing to insist this does not make you sound smart.

Actually, a laser beam is a ray of light.

[Teriz]

Those are not toys. Those are real bombs. Game mechanics are the only thing preventing them from dealing any kind of functional damage and you know it. Tinker bombs are engineering bombs. That's a fact.

Game mechanics is what determines their function. If game mechanics makes them toys, than they are toys, because that's the only way I can interact with them.

Again, in your mind, of course.

Of course,

And since the Sky Golem can be built by all engineers and be piloted by everyone, that means your 'tank', if it existed at all, would be able to be built by all engineers and worn by all.

Except Sky Golems and Hammer Tanks are two very different types of machines.

[Ielenia]

Game mechanics is what determines their function. If game mechanics makes them toys, than they are toys, because that's the only way I can interact with them.

But those are not toys. Those are real bombs.

Except Sky Golems and Hammer Tanks are two very different types of machines.

They are not too different. Both are machines controlled by an interface of buttons and levers, both have arms, both look like robots, with the sky golem having the advantage of being able to fly, which makes it harder to control and use than the 'backpack tank'.

[Drilnos]

Actually, a laser beam is a ray of light.

And a square is a rectangle, and a duck is a bird.

- - - Updated - - -

I just said they needed a power source. Hahahahahaha. Fucking relax. Its like anyone that interrupts your daydream of tinkers is attacked.

For all intents and purposes thats your tinker laser. Sorry you dont want to accept evidence and facts.

Looking something up on wikipedia enough to throw some bullshit explanation togethers not impressing anyone

I didn't have to look it up on Wikipedia. Feel free to do so yourself if you ever feel like learning something, or giving people the impression that you know what you're talking about. As for the rest of it, you seem to think there's some level of anger or hostility in my tone. Not at all. In fact quite the opposite. You're unknowingly doing something to embarrass yourself, and I'm just letting you know. If you continue to do so, well, I can at least say that I tried.

[Teriz]

But those are not toys. Those are real bombs.

They're toys. Why? Because their function is for personal enjoyment and goofing off, not for killing anything or performing a role.

They are not too different. Both are machines controlled by an interface of buttons and levers, both have arms, both look like robots, with the sky golem having the advantage of being able to fly, which makes it harder to control and use than the 'backpack tank'.

Wrong again. The Hammer Tank would be harder to control because it would have more functions and controls than the Sky Golem which is only a mount. Since the tank would be the basis of a class, it would have dozens of abilities and cooldowns attached to it. Unlike a Sky golem which most people can pilot,the Hammer Tank can only be piloted by an elite group of technicians who can effectively use the tank's weapons and functions in battle.

It's like a Cessna versus the military's new Ground Combat Vehicle (GCV) prototype. Yeah the Cessna can fly, but the GCV is the more advanced machine.

http://www.popsci.com/technology/art...-tank-so-heavy

[Sukhoi]

I didn't have to look it up on Wikipedia. Feel free to do so yourself if you ever feel like learning something, or giving people the impression that you know what you're talking about. As for the rest of it, you seem to think there's some level of anger or hostility in my tone. Not at all. In fact quite the opposite. You're unknowingly doing something to embarrass yourself, and I'm just letting you know. If you continue to do so, well, I can at least say that I tried.

Because i said laser need a power source? Which they do. I never claimed to be a laser expert there tough guy. Whats embarrassing is the fact that you get off on this kind of stuff.