Will Tinkers be a class in WoW?

[Teriz]

But it doesn't, so your point is moot. As are tinkers.


Still too whymsical. Proof of that is that tinkers don't exist.

Actually they do exist, since WC3 is considered lore.

It's irrelevant to you, who ignore everything that disproves your ideas. To people with actual working brains, it's clear as day that it's a simple game mechanic that says the unit is 'mechanical' because it's the golem that takes the damage, not the goblin, in that mode. Or are you going to tell me that the two goblins in the goblin sapper unit are actually one goblin, split in two?

Game mechanic or not, Tinkers have the ability to become mechanical.

Something that doesn't exist cannot receive an ability to fly.

Actually they do exist, since WC3 is considered lore.

Heheh, I love how you try to act more knowledgeable by comparing something from 1993 with something of recent design. Oh, and by the way, a flying machine is more complicated to use than a ground vehicle. Bad example from your part, shows how much you know.

Which is like saying that the Wright Bros. aircraft is more complicated than a modern car simply because it can fly. Here's a hint; It isn't.

Metamorphosis is not permanent.

Via Choatic resources it will be.

Spoken like someone who never played a gnome or goblin. Ever.

Actually I have quite a few Goblin and Gnome characters. The point though is that Tinkers being Gnome and Goblin only solves the so-called visual obstruction problem.

It's not WoW, so 100% irrelevant.

Please try to follow an argument before you comment. Thanks.

[Hatecore]

Actually they do exist, since WC3 is considered lore.

They were not in any campaign so no they are not considered lore.

[Traveler Voltin]

i see teriz is still blindly defending tinkers and blindly attacking demon hunters.

tinkers wont be in WoW outside NPCs. it will not be playable class.
there is more demand for demon hunters than anything else. blizzard could make demon hunters work if they would go back to being really creative. i personally shown 2 things that throw Teriz argument out the window. i can post them again if people want.

[Teriz]

They were not in any campaign so no they are not considered lore.

Actually they are, since they're mentioned in WoW.

[Hatecore]

i see teriz is still blindly defending tinkers and blindly attacking demon hunters.

tinkers wont be in WoW outside NPCs. it will not be playable class.
there is more demand for demon hunters than anything else. blizzard could make demon hunters work if they would go back to being really creative. i personally shown 2 things that throw Teriz argument out the window. i can post them again if people want.

PLEASE do so

[fixx]

The fact that I can't use Engineering items in the place of class abilities during a raid shows that they are different.

They are tuned different so that engineering provides an approximately 320dps boost like all other skills. If the items in "device" and "explosives" category would deal 1000x damage it would be fairly equal to any other class's raw dps output. It's all a matter of tuning for the current difference between engineering and tinkering.

Bows are weapons that allow you to use bow-based abilities and auto attacks. Spells are entirely class abilities. You don't need weapons to cast spells. If you don't understand that, then there's no point discussing this further.

Semantics is poor substitute when you run out of real arguments. Mashing one button on hunter repeatedly for shitty dps at range does exactly the same as mashing one button repeatedly on a warlock. Or mage. Or shadowpriest, moonkin or elemental shaman. All of those are ranged dps classes with very similar toolkit that revolves around doing damage from far away.

Incorrect. The Engineer is looking for materials or crafting items. The Engineer is making items to sell at auction, or to trade with raiders.

It's also ~320 dps increase that you get by using saronite bombs or whatever.

The Tinker is using class abilities and talents to perfom either Tanking, Healing, or DPS. Its purpose is to fulfil a role.

See the first answer. It's only a matter of tuning. If the saronite bombs did 1000x damage it would be equal to a mage or warlock doing aoe spell. Engineering toys are just ranged spells from game design perspective, only with much lower numbers to get it in line with other professions.

Also the Engineer isn't creating a skill, its creating an item. The item has to be constructed, the item only has a set number of uses before you need to make more, the item doesn't scale with advancing levels, and the item can be given to another player. A class ability isn't anything like that at all.

If you'd get a skill called "saronite bomb" at level 70 as a tinkerer that does exactly same amount of damage as the item saronite bomb at level 70, you wouldn't know the difference between using engineering the skill and tinkering the class. The flavor is exactly the same and that is the major problem with tinkering the class.

Nonsense. I could still pilot a Sky Golem as a Tinker. I could still make guns and be a Tinker. I could use the Goblin parachute as a Tinker. I could even make those useless Engineering bombs as a Tinker. Sharing a technology theme means next to nothing when you don't share the same design space. Profession's main purpose is to construct mounts and armor, not to perform class roles. The scenario you describe above is a complete fantasy.

You can make mounts and items with all other tradeskills just as well. It's the bombs and devices that give abilites which simulate low power spells (aoe attacks, stuns, movement speed etc) that would be identical over tradeskill and class. Again don't use semantics when logic fails.

[Teriz]

i see teriz is still blindly defending tinkers and blindly attacking demon hunters.

tinkers wont be in WoW outside NPCs. it will not be playable class.
there is more demand for demon hunters than anything else. blizzard could make demon hunters work if they would go back to being really creative. i personally shown 2 things that throw Teriz argument out the window. i can post them again if people want.

If Blizzard based class inclusion on demand, their wouldn't be Warriors in the game, there would be Blademasters. There wouldn't be Hunters, there would be Beastmasters. There wouldn't be Shaman, there would be Shadow Hunters. There wouldn't be Rogues, there would be Wardens. There wouldn't be Warlocks there would be Demon Hunters.

Also Blizzard wouldn't have given Warlocks the DH skillset if there goal was to eventually bring DHs into the game.

That throws your argument out the window because its based on actual evidence, not conjecture and heresay.

[Ielenia]

Actually they do exist, since WC3 is considered lore.

Actually, Warcraft 3 campaigns are considered lore.

Game mechanic or not, Tinkers have the ability to become mechanical.

Nope. They have the ability to get inside their mechs to pilot them. Still biological, flesh-and-blood goblins.

Actually they do exist, since WC3 is considered lore.

See answer #1.

Which is like saying that the Wright Bros. aircraft is more complicated than a modern car simply because it can fly. Here's a hint; It isn't.

Spoken like a true ignorant about planes and cars.

Actually I have quite a few Goblin and Gnome characters. The point though is that Tinkers being Gnome and Goblin only solves the so-called visual obstruction problem.

It looks like you never actually played them if you're making such wild accusations.

Please try to follow an argument before you comment. Thanks.

I do. You're presenting fanart as proof of canon, which is total BS.

[Hatecore]

Actually they are, since they're mentioned in WoW.

*Citation needed

[Teriz]

They are tuned different so that engineering provides an approximately 320dps boost like all other skills. If the items in "device" and "explosives" category would deal 1000x damage it would be fairly equal to any other class's raw dps output. It's all a matter of tuning for the current difference between engineering and tinkering.

And there's a very important reason why that will never happen. Try to guess why.

Semantics is poor substitute when you run out of real arguments. Mashing one button on hunter repeatedly for shitty dps at range does exactly the same as mashing one button repeatedly on a warlock. Or mage. Or shadowpriest, moonkin or elemental shaman. All of those are ranged dps classes with very similar toolkit that revolves around doing damage from far away.

Except that wasn't the argument I was making. Re-read it and try again.

See the first answer. It's only a matter of tuning. If the saronite bombs did 1000x damage it would be equal to a mage or warlock doing aoe spell. Engineering toys are just ranged spells from game design perspective, only with much lower numbers to get it in line with other professions.

And see my first answer. There's a very good reason why that would never happen in WoW.

If you'd get a skill called "saronite bomb" at level 70 as a tinkerer that does exactly same amount of damage as the item saronite bomb at level 70, you wouldn't know the difference between using engineering the skill and tinkering the class. The flavor is exactly the same and that is the major problem with tinkering the class.

Except the Tinker wouldn't get Saronite Bomb, and the bomb that the Tinker does receive wouldn't need to be constructed with different materials, nor would it run out of supply. Let's also not forget that the Tinker bomb would scale with the level of the Tinker, not stay at level 70 forever.

The "flavor" wouldn't be exactly the same at all. At level 70 the Tinker is using a bomb that has a short cooldown, is capable of killing at level targets, and is part of some rotation. Meanwhile, the Engineer is digging for materials to construct a Saronite bomb that lacks power, has a long cooldown, and requires the engineer to make more when they run out.

You can make mounts and items with all other tradeskills just as well. It's the bombs and devices that give abilites which simulate low power spells (aoe attacks, stuns, movement speed etc) that would be identical over tradeskill and class. Again don't use semantics when logic fails.

The only reason Engineers make bombs is for leveling the profession. People roll Engineering to make gear, gizmos, and interesting mounts. Not to pretend that they're a technology class.

The logic is that a profession isn't a class. The logic is that an item you need to construct, has weak damage, has limited uses, and has insane cooldowns isn't the same as a class ability.

[Skayth]

If Blizzard based class inclusion on demand, their wouldn't be Warriors in the game, there would be Blademasters. There wouldn't be Hunters, there would be Beastmasters. There wouldn't be Shaman, there would be Shadow Hunters. There wouldn't be Rogues, there would be Wardens. There wouldn't be Warlocks there would be Demon Hunters.

Also Blizzard wouldn't have given Warlocks the DH skillset if there goal was to eventually bring DHs into the game.

That throws your argument out the window because its based on actual evidence, not conjecture and heresay.

Blizzard did not give warlocks the dh skillset at all. am I in melee duel wielding warglaives shrouded in mystical flames slashing down my foes? Nope. Is metamorphosis based on demon hunters metamorphosis? Nope, just Illidan's corrupted form (black harvest/green fire). In metamorphosis, am I autofiring bolts of chaos? Nope, just shadow damage, or if I have stacks of molten core, fire damage. In Metamorphosis, do I have any abilities that a a dhs? Nope. But you have carrion swarm and Sleep... and I have Infernal, a dreadlords abilities. Damn I feel like I am a burning legion agent >.>

If Blizzard did class inclusion on demand, there would be warlocks and demon hunters. why? Because Warlocks are the evil class of WoW. They want to be archimonde of Warcraft 3. Hell thats why I decided on my warlock. But wait dhs would step on warlocks demon stuff, just like paladins and priests. Hunters do have beast mastery. Though, if you are talking about the melee, they did have it up until... wotlk? or was it Cata? and noone wanted to be a melee hunter, so it was gone. (dont get me wrong, it was shit... until one time, where it was actually very overpowered in pvp, but got quickly nerfed). Rogues are basically wardens, minus the avatar, which I am pretty sure they will eventually get. Shamans are based off of shamans and far seers and witch doctors.

[Teriz]

Actually, Warcraft 3 campaigns are considered lore.

And Tinkers are mentioned in WoW.

Want to guess why that is?

Nope. They have the ability to get inside their mechs to pilot them. Still biological, flesh-and-blood goblins.

That's not what the ability says.

See answer #1.

See response #1.

It looks like you never actually played them if you're making such wild accusations.

It wasn't an accusation. Gnomes and Goblins are small enough for the Hammer Tanks to be massive and still not cause a visual obstruction.

I do. You're presenting fanart as proof of canon, which is total BS.

You do know that that was posted because Thigmagryn said that no MMORPG has a feature like the hammer tank in its game right? He believed that it was only for MOBAs.

What am I saying? Of course you did.

[Traveler Voltin]

PLEASE do so

"The demon hunter can drain a demon’s energy to fuel their own powers. They mainly use arcane and fire energy. Shadow energy is rare. No other energies have been confirmed. The demon hunter can channel the chaos energy within them into a melee weapon to increase its powers. In time the demon hunter becomes more proficient in channeling demonic energy into their weapons, and highly skilled demon hunters are adept at this technique. Demon hunters have shown the ability to cover their bodies in a shell of flame. At the pinnacle of evolution, Demon hunters can unleash the demon in them and turn themselves (temporarily) into something more. This is called Metamorphosis"

states that demon hunters DO NOT USE fel magic like warlocks. also states only the elite demon hunters have meta. which means it could be a talent for demon hunters.

"Demon hunters also possess a plethora of magical abilities, most notably the ability to metamorphose. Many abilities also tend to vary from demon hunter to demon hunter, possibly derived from the type of demon that they originally partially absorbed."

that basically says that 3 different type of demons could represent 3 specs and that demon hunters could gain powers from demons the warlocks havent taken powers from.

here is a bonus one i didnt link before.

"Night elf society shuns demon hunters. Most night elves don't understand the noble sacrifice that demon hunters make; therefore, they make another sacrifice: to be outcasts from their society. Other cultures share the night elves' distrust of demon hunters, and the shadowy individuals are not welcome in cities throughout the Alliance or Horde-controlled lands. Citizens and soldiers may allow a demon hunter to stay at an inn or take a brief rest at a tavern, but they watch them warily and breathe sighs of relief when they leave. These people do not see the demon hunters for the heroes and martyrs they are; they see them as dangerous individuals who consort with dark powers, almost as bad as warlocks. Such ignorance embitters many demon hunters, and most are solitary souls. Some are fortunate enough to find the company of a few individuals who appreciate them, or at least show them little ill will"

warlocks are evil.

[Hatecore]

And Tinkers are mentioned in WoW.

Source? I am still waiting

[Teriz]

Blizzard did not give warlocks the dh skillset at all. am I in melee duel wielding warglaives shrouded in mystical flames slashing down my foes?

You're in melee slashing foes down with Demonic slash and burning them down with Immolation aura.

Is metamorphosis based on demon hunters metamorphosis? Nope, just Illidan's corrupted form (black harvest/green fire).

What's the difference?

In metamorphosis, am I autofiring bolts of chaos? Nope, just shadow damage, or if I have stacks of molten core, fire damage.

Chaos Wave.

In Metamorphosis, do I have any abilities that a a dhs? Nope. But you have carrion swarm and Sleep... and I have Infernal, a dreadlords abilities. Damn I feel like I am a burning legion agent >.>

You have Shadow bolt, Grimore of Sacrifice, Pursuit, and Provoke. All of which are equivalents to DH Illidan Stormrage's abilities in Well of Eternity.

- - - Updated - - -

Source? I am still waiting

These are the last known deposits of kaja'mite anywhere. This is the raw stuff that made us the genius tinkerers and alchemists that we are today. If that's not worth a bazillion macaroons, I don't know what is!

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14124

[Ielenia]

And Tinkers are mentioned in WoW.
Want to guess why that is?

Because 'tinker' is just a 'synonym' for 'engineer' as it has been proven all around. Just one of many titles an engineer can take.

That's not what the ability says.

Game mechanics, nothing more. If you don't have eyes, I'm sorry about you.

See response #1.

See response #1.

It wasn't an accusation. Gnomes and Goblins are small enough for the Hammer Tanks to be massive and still not cause a visual obstruction.

And the camera lowers itself to be on the same distance from the player character's head as it would for normal player characters. Which means the 'mecha backpack' would clutter just as much as it would a normal player character. You lose.

You do know that that was posted because Thigmagryn said that no MMORPG has a feature like the hammer tank in its game right? He believed that it was only for MOBAs.
What am I saying? Of course you did.

Which you are still using to prove canon in WoW.

[Hatecore]

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=14124

This is the raw stuff that made us the genius tinkerers and alchemists we are today.

AKA


This is the raw stuff that made us the genius Engineers and alchemists we are today.

Not a class


/THREAD

[Teriz]

Because 'tinker' is just a 'synonym' for 'engineer' as it has been proven all around. Just one of many titles an engineer can take.

Just like Enchanter is a synonym for Mage.

Game mechanics, nothing more. If you don't have eyes, I'm sorry about you.

Game mechanics are the basis of classes.

And the camera lowers itself to be on the same distance from the player character's head as it would for normal player characters. Which means the 'mecha backpack' would clutter just as much as it would a normal player character. You lose.

It would clutter no less than the wings on the back of a Warlock during Dark Apotheosis.

Which you are still using to prove canon in WoW.

Actually I was merely showing Thimagrym that mechanical arms work just fine in a MMORPG.

Again, please read the entire discussion before responding to it.

[Tatzi]

Just like Enchanter is a synonym for Mage.

There have been numerous posts about how tinkers ARE engineers. Where do you get this information? Because you said so?

[Hatecore]

The issue is the overlap with the engineering profession and the term tinker being used elsewhere.