Will Tinkers be a class in WoW?

[Teriz]

http://wowpedia.org/Loramus_Thalipedes

Thank you. That's what I was looking for.

It also doesn't help that he's dead.

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No It was a bad Idea In the first place,
The Class dosent suit up to WoW niche.

So Gnomes and Goblins don't suit up to the WoW niche?

[Doomaz]

im done with new classes, i hope there will be no more new classes

[Rhamses]

The main reason they're a threat is because Garrosh unified many isolated orc clans into a single force to be reckoned with, thanks to their sheer numbers and ferocity. Technology has little to do with it. Even without those Grom-mounted cannons, the unified orc clans would STILL be a huge threat.

As another poster said; the Orc clans were united under the demonic influence as well. The threat here is their technological power, and being largely free of overt demonic influence. A united Orc horde free of demonic influence is scary enough. A united Orc horde free of demonic influence and backed by industrialized weaponry and siege instruments is incredibly powerful.

Here's a flow chart of the Iron Horde, clearly showing Blizzard's direction with it;



Technology is clearly a big part of it, just like Teriz and others have said.

[Drilnos]

As another poster said; the Orc clans were united under the demonic influence as well. The threat here is their technological power, and being largely free of overt demonic influence. A united Orc horde free of demonic influence is scary enough. A united Orc horde free of demonic influence and backed by industrialized weaponry and siege instruments is incredibly powerful.

Here's a flow chart of the Iron Horde, clearly showing Blizzard's direction with it;

*snip*

Technology is clearly a big part of it, just like Teriz and others have said.

Yup. The united clans are using advanced technology this time around as a straight-up replacement for the demon blood they used the first time. It's what's making them as dangerous as before, if not more so. They were very clear on this point at Blizzcon.

[Ielenia]

Where's your evidence?

Well, since you're so fond of WoWWiki and WoWPedia...
http://www.wowwiki.com/Sindweller

The Monk lore provided additional lore to the Pandaren race. You said that classes never do that.

Now imagine a Tinker class where our starter zone is the Tinker union, or our starter zone is reclaiming Kezan, fending off an attack from Gnomeregan, or we start off helping Gelbin or a trade prince stop a menace with our latest invention the Hammer Tank. That would add lore to both Gnomes and Goblins.

What lore did the monk class give that wasn't also given through the storyline? None.
Also your line about the tinkers can be replaced by any class with no problems, since gnomes are all industrious people.

Who are they? Where are they?

http://www.wowwiki.com/Sindweller is one of them.

According to Blizzard Illidan is the totality of the entire Demon Hunter story. Which is why the DH design space was purposely passed on to the Warlock class.

If you are so certain, you can offer us quotes from when Blizzard said that, right, despite in-game existing examples that prove your statement wrong, right?

Did you miss the "could have" in that statement?

I just followed your original statement. You kept saying that Warlords of Draenor would make a perfect setting for the introduction of a tech class.

They are making an expansion around tech. Its called Warlords of Draenor.
Mists of Pandaria wasn't lacking in the tech department either.
Blizzard has been steadily increasing the amount of technology in the game since WotLK. Considering that the final 2 WC3 heroes were tech based Goblins, we need a ranged class, and the final armor type is mail, the answer to what the next class will be is pretty clear.

They are not making an expansion around technology. That's saying Wrath of the Lich King was an expansion about ice and snow. And the 'answer' to the next class is only 'clear' in your head. Nothing is 'clear' for the future of WoW's lore unless you work as a Blizzard developer.

[Traveler Voltin]

Well, since you're so fond of WoWWiki and WoWPedia...
http://www.wowwiki.com/Sindweller


What lore did the monk class give that wasn't also given through the storyline? None.
Also your line about the tinkers can be replaced by any class with no problems, since gnomes are all industrious people.


http://www.wowwiki.com/Sindweller is one of them.


If you are so certain, you can offer us quotes from when Blizzard said that, right, despite in-game existing examples that prove your statement wrong, right?


I just followed your original statement. You kept saying that Warlords of Draenor would make a perfect setting for the introduction of a tech class.


They are not making an expansion around technology. That's saying Wrath of the Lich King was an expansion about ice and snow. And the 'answer' to the next class is only 'clear' in your head. Nothing is 'clear' for the future of WoW's lore unless you work as a Blizzard developer.

why are you using wowwiki? that site is crap. you should be using WoWpedia.

[Durantye]

Thank you. That's what I was looking for.

It also doesn't help that he's dead.

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So Gnomes and Goblins don't suit up to the WoW niche?

You asked for proof of Demon hunters outside illidan in World of Warcraft and you got it now you are saying 'well he is dead' the point was to prove Illidan wasn't the only one not to show you a hundred examples the same way we could mages. How many Night elf hunters and warriors are there in the game as NPCs only a hand full, the point is that they do exist as a class in the game and is not restricted to simply illidan.

[Teriz]

Well, since you're so fond of WoWWiki and WoWPedia...
http://www.wowwiki.com/Sindweller

He's Illidari.

What lore did the monk class give that wasn't also given through the storyline? None.
Also your line about the tinkers can be replaced by any class with no problems, since gnomes are all industrious people.

Pandaren Monks being the liberators of the race would be a prime example.

As for Gnomes and Goblins, no other class option would do that better than the Tinker, since they both share the tech angle.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Sindweller is one of them.

Again, I'm pretty sure he's Illidari.

If you are so certain, you can offer us quotes from when Blizzard said that, right, despite in-game existing examples that prove your statement wrong, right?

I will shortly.

I just followed your original statement. You kept saying that Warlords of Draenor would make a perfect setting for the introduction of a tech class.

Because it would have been.

They are not making an expansion around technology. That's saying Wrath of the Lich King was an expansion about ice and snow. And the 'answer' to the next class is only 'clear' in your head. Nothing is 'clear' for the future of WoW's lore unless you work as a Blizzard developer.

WotLK revolved around the undead. I.e. The source of the Lich King's power.

What's the source of the Iron Horde's power?

[Ielenia]

He's Illidari.

Rumored. Nothing confirmed. His actions hint that he is not Illidari. He hunts and slays demons. Illidan amasses them to his own army.

Pandaren Monks being the liberators of the race would be a prime example.
As for Gnomes and Goblins, no other class option would do that better than the Tinker, since they both share the tech angle.

Which could have happened anyways without the introduction of a monk class. To prove that the monk class adds to a race's lore, you need to provide an example of something that happens during the monk quest line, and that is not shown anywhere else but in the monk quest line.
And the goblin and gnomes being industrious races mean nothing toward the 'need' for another class.

Again, I'm pretty sure he's Illidari.

Again. Rumored. And what he does goes against what Illidan teaches.

Because it would have been.

It would not. That is practically stupid, saying a 'tech class' can be introduced in an expansion based on time travel to the past. It'd be like if Death Knights were introduced during Mists of Pandaria. Or Monks during the Burning Crusade.

WotLK revolved around the undead. I.e. The source of the Lich King's power.
What's the source of the Iron Horde's power?

Not according to your logic about expansions and their themes. Warlords of Draenor is not about technology, or 'advanced technology'. It's about two worlds, two universes, being thrown into collision route into one another thanks to Garrosh's actions when he tried to amass a new army to enact revenge against Horde and Alliance alike.

Wrath of the Lich King was about an incursion to Northrend to stop the Ligh King as he wakes from his slumber to once again terrorize the living. So much so that the 'pre-expansion' event was a sudden invasion of the undead. Only after that they go after the Lich King. And the undead are not his source of power. That's wrong. His 'source' of power is both the Shadowmourne sword and Ner'zul's soul within him.

[Thimagryn]

He's Illidari.

There is more plausibility that he is one of the few DH trained before the Illidari faction, since his name is derived from Warcraft 3. Warcraft 3 describes the Demon Hunters gaining their powers long ago, meaning a group existed while Illidan was imprisoned after the War of the Ancients.

[Teriz]

Rumored. Nothing confirmed. His actions hint that he is not Illidari. He hunts and slays demons. Illidan amasses them to his own army.

That isn't enough to not make him Illidari. Plenty of Illidari DHs slayed demons.

Which could have happened anyways without the introduction of a monk class. To prove that the monk class adds to a race's lore, you need to provide an example of something that happens during the monk quest line, and that is not shown anywhere else but in the monk quest line.

No I don't. I just need to show class lore that adds to the lore of a race. Which is exactly what I did.

And the goblin and gnomes being industrious races mean nothing toward the 'need' for another class.

Medieval-based classes don't really fit races that drive around in cars, or have orbital weapons.

Again. Rumored. And what he does goes against what Illidan teaches.

If you read his quest line he excuses every bad thing that Illidan did. He worships Illidan more than Yig does.

It would not. That is practically stupid, saying a 'tech class' can be introduced in an expansion based on time travel to the past. It'd be like if Death Knights were introduced during Mists of Pandaria. Or Monks during the Burning Crusade.

No, a tech class introduced in an expansion where we have to counter a technologically advanced horde makes a lot of sense. Keep in mind, they're called the "iron" Horde because of their technology.

Not according to your logic about expansions and their themes. Warlords of Draenor is not about technology, or 'advanced technology'. It's about two worlds, two universes, being thrown into collision route into one another thanks to Garrosh's actions when he tried to amass a new army to enact revenge against Horde and Alliance alike.

And what were Garrosh's "actions"? He unified the Orc clans through technology instead of Fel Magic.

Wrath of the Lich King was about an incursion to Northrend to stop the Ligh King as he wakes from his slumber to once again terrorize the living. So much so that the 'pre-expansion' event was a sudden invasion of the undead. Only after that they go after the Lich King. And the undead are not his source of power. That's wrong. His 'source' of power is both the Shadowmourne sword and Ner'zul's soul within him.

You do understand that the term Lich means undead or corpse. So the Lich King literally means king of the undead.

I wonder what an expansion called "Wrath of the Undead King" would be about...

[Ielenia]

That isn't enough to not make him Illidari. Plenty of Illidari DHs slayed demons.

Read Thimagryn's post before yours.

No I don't. I just need to show class lore that adds to the lore of a race. Which is exactly what I did.

You did nothing of the sort. You just said that the Pandaren rebelled against their captors. Which you find out during your adventures with Lorewalker Cho. Classes add no lore to anything.

Medieval-based classes don't really fit races that drive around in cars, or have orbital weapons.

So we all do that. Still, doesn't proves the need for a tech class.

If you read his quest line he excuses every bad thing that Illidan did. He worships Illidan more than Yig does.

He is a Demon Hunter of old, from before Illidan went to Outland. And since he went to Outland almost immediately after being released from his imprisonment, means he knew Illidan prior to him being imprisoned, which mean before the War of the Ancients.

No, a tech class introduced in an expansion where we have to counter a technologically advanced horde makes a lot of sense. Keep in mind, they're called the "iron" Horde because of their technology.

Only if said 'technologically advanced horde' comes either from the future, or used advanced tech from another world. Nothing of those happen. They use current tech on orcs from the past. That is no case and makes no sense for the introduction of any tech class.

And what were Garrosh's "actions"? He unified the Orc clans through technology instead of Fel Magic.

So WoD is about Garrosh?

You do understand that the term Lich means undead or corpse. So the Lich King literally means king of the undead.

Have ever played Warcraft 3 and its expansion? When the human Arthas is charmed by the Frostmourne sword to commit attrocities, and then further empowered when he donned the helm that contained the soul of Ner'zul, the first Lich King?

[Teriz]

Read Thimagryn's post before yours.

Which isn't concrete evidence. Considering that he knew quite a bit about Illidan, and talked about Illidan as if he were a teacher to him, gives strong evidence that he is Illidari.

You did nothing of the sort. You just said that the Pandaren rebelled against their captors. Which you find out during your adventures with Lorewalker Cho. Classes add no lore to anything.

Go to Blizzard.com, go to the Game guide, click the Monk tab, and enjoy the class lore that adds some lore to the Pandaren race.

So we all do that. Still, doesn't proves the need for a tech class.

Only Goblins and Gnomes have technology-based racial mounts. Only Gnomes and Goblins surround themselves in technology.

He is a Demon Hunter of old, from before Illidan went to Outland. And since he went to Outland almost immediately after being released from his imprisonment, means he knew Illidan prior to him being imprisoned, which mean before the War of the Ancients.

Where did you pull that info from? Your rear end?

Only if said 'technologically advanced horde' comes either from the future, or used advanced tech from another world. Nothing of those happen. They use current tech on orcs from the past. That is no case and makes no sense for the introduction of any tech class.

The Iron Star is advanced technology. Garrosh takes the Iron Star into the past where the Orcs spend years studying it, and reverse engineering it into the core of their culture and war machine. Again, they're called the Iron Horde because of their technology.

So WoD is about Garrosh?

WoD happens because of Garrosh's actions.

Have ever played Warcraft 3 and its expansion? When the human Arthas is charmed by the Frostmourne sword to commit attrocities, and then further empowered when he donned the helm that contained the soul of Ner'zul, the first Lich King?

Irrelevant. The point is that the power of the Lich King revolves around the undead. The power of the Iron Horde revolves around technology. The themes are in the very names themselves. You have no argument.

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You asked for proof of Demon hunters outside illidan in World of Warcraft and you got it now you are saying 'well he is dead' the point was to prove Illidan wasn't the only one not to show you a hundred examples the same way we could mages. How many Night elf hunters and warriors are there in the game as NPCs only a hand full, the point is that they do exist as a class in the game and is not restricted to simply illidan.

Since the context of the question is "where would all these Demon hunters supposedly come from", a dead Demon Hunter quest giver is pretty meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

[Ielenia]

Which isn't concrete evidence. Considering that he knew quite a bit about Illidan, and talked about Illidan as if he were a teacher to him, gives strong evidence that he is Illidari.

He may have trained under Illidan, but that was before he turned into the demonic abomination he is now. Before the War of the Ancients.

Go to Blizzard.com, go to the Game guide, click the Monk tab, and enjoy the class lore that adds some lore to the Pandaren race.

I go there. I see nothing that I haven't learned as a human mage or blood elf warlock throughout Pandaria. You fail.

Only Goblins and Gnomes have technology-based racial mounts. Only Gnomes and Goblins surround themselves in technology.

Good for them. But it still does not mean a need for a tech class.

Where did you pull that info from? Your rear end?

Nope. From my playthrough of Warcraft 3 and its expansion. Illidan got imprisoned after the War of the Ancients for his betrayal, and was released only when the Scourge and the Legion were too much for the Night Elves to handle alone. And then during the game he was banished to Outland. There you go.

The Iron Star is advanced technology. Garrosh takes the Iron Star into the past where the Orcs spend years studying it, and reverse engineering it into the core of their culture and war machine. Again, they're called the Iron Horde because of their technology.

Spent years studying it? Where did you pull that info? From your 'rear end'?

WoD happens because of Garrosh's actions.

So, in your mind, WoD is about Garrosh?

Irrelevant. The point is that the power of the Lich King revolves around the undead. The power of the Iron Horde revolves around technology. The themes are in the very names themselves. You have no argument.

Not irrelevant. You claimed the undead were the Lich King's source of power. And now that you have been proven wrong you dismiss it all?

Also, by your logic, WoD is not about technology, but actually about the Warlords of Draenor? Thanks for finally seeing the light.

[Teriz]

He may have trained under Illidan, but that was before he turned into the demonic abomination he is now. Before the War of the Ancients.

Except we have evidence that Illidan trained several Demon Hunters after the War of the Ancients, and while he was in Outland. There's no evidence that Illidan trained any DHs before he was imprisoned.

I go there. I see nothing that I haven't learned as a human mage or blood elf warlock throughout Pandaria. You fail.

I fail because you can't read? Okay.

Good for them. But it still does not mean a need for a tech class.

Actually it does, since it appears awkward that a race surrounded by technology wouldn't have heroes who wield technology. I mean, we have villains who do it. Why no heroes? Their faction leaders wield it, and many Gnome and Goblin NPCs utilize it. Seems like common sense to let players wield it too.

Nope. From my playthrough of Warcraft 3 and its expansion. Illidan got imprisoned after the War of the Ancients for his betrayal, and was released only when the Scourge and the Legion were too much for the Night Elves to handle alone. And then during the game he was banished to Outland. There you go.

None of that proves that Sindweller was trained before Illidan entered Outland. Considering that Sindweller knew what Illidan was doing in Outland, one can only assume that he was there with him, and simply left before the beginning of TBC.

Spent years studying it? Where did you pull that info? From your 'rear end'?

Nope, from Blizzard. They said that the Orcs spent about 2-3 years studyingt he Iron Star, and then began to design machines and weapons around it.

Not irrelevant. You claimed the undead were the Lich King's source of power. And now that you have been proven wrong you dismiss it all?

Yes, his source of power is the Undead, or Necomancy. The Frostmourne is a necromatic weapon, used for necromatic purposes. It's all based around an undead theme.

Also, by your logic, WoD is not about technology, but actually about the Warlords of Draenor? Thanks for finally seeing the light.

The Warlords of Draenor who command the Iron Horde.

Care to explain why they're called the Iron Horde?

[Ielenia]

Except we have evidence that Illidan trained several Demon Hunters after the War of the Ancients, and while he was in Outland.

After the war? Care to show your source on that?

I fail because you can't read? Okay.

No, you fail because the class added in MoP didn't add any lore to the Pandaren.

Actually it does, since it appears awkward that a race surrounded by technology wouldn't have heroes who wield technology. I mean, we have villains who do it. Why no heroes? Their faction leaders wield it, and many Gnome and Goblin NPCs utilize it. Seems like common sense to let players wield it too.

Because, unlike heroes, villains don't go out in the world helping people. They simply focus on their own needs over others. And since they don't travel the world they can dedicate their time to building bigger machines.

None of that proves that Sindweller was trained before Illidan entered Outland. Considering that Sindweller knew what Illidan was doing in Outland, one can only assume that he was there with him, and simply left before the beginning of TBC.

Where does it say that Sindweller was in Outland? Also, using your logic, Sindweller was in Warcraft 3, which means he was already a Demon Hunter BEFORE 'going to Outland' as you claim.

Nope, from Blizzard. They said that the Orcs spent about 2-3 years studyingt he Iron Star, and then began to design machines and weapons around it.

And two to three years is enough to develop a technology from scraps to become so much greater than Azeroth's to be considered 'advanced'?

Yes, his source of power is the Undead, or Necomancy. The Frostmourne is a necromatic weapon, used for necromatic purposes. It's all based around an undead theme.

Now you're being obtuse. The undead is not the Lich King's source of power. Animated skeletons don't give him power. Walking Stitched Abominations don't give him power. Frostmourne and Ner'zul's soul do.

The Warlords of Draenor who command the Iron Horde.
Care to explain why they're called the Iron Horde?

Because they use a lot of iron? There. Also, as you pointed out, the WoD expansion is not about technology.

[Theodoxus]

Its actually not close to Engineering at all. A common, yet ignorant assumption.

Well, with that refutation, I guess I'm wrong in my assumption. /eyeroll. You'll need to elaborate on that, bub. I'm not taking your word that Mokeshne is wrong.

[Nalam the Venom]

they should focus on balancing the ones we got.. we don't need more classes

[Theodoxus]

they should focus on balancing the ones we got.. we don't need more classes

There is no such thing as balance. That argument is old and stale - with it, you could claim blizzard shouldn't make any more content at all - until the classes are homogeneous carbon copies - because that's the only way they'll be 'balanced'. It's a team game with unique traits across the classes that require teamwork to beat - the fact that both factions now have access to all classes is balance enough. Your claim was legit in vanilla with the separation of Shaman and Paladin - but since BC, it's fallen away. It's 2014, please come to the present.

[Teriz]

Well, with that refutation, I guess I'm wrong in my assumption. /eyeroll. You'll need to elaborate on that, bub. I'm not taking your word that Mokeshne is wrong.

The profession contains none of the Tinker abilities from WC3, or HotS. They also don't have the the hammer tank that the tinkers from WC3 and HotS utilize.

Also professions are different from classes. Professions can't tank, DPS, or heal raids, they don't provide class style-abilities, and they can be swapped out of a new profession when you get bored.

In short, there is very little that they have in common.