Will Tinkers be a class in WoW?

[Ielenia]

Forsaken Machinist;http://www.wowhead.com/npc=36292
Who drive these; http://www.wowhead.com/npc=36283
There's also Kor'Kron Machinist during Siege. http://www.wowhead.com/npc=73806#screenshots
Here's a few Tinkers (Tinkerers) for you as well; http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=Tinkerer

So machinists are nothing but pilots/drivers? And since those 'tinkerers' examples you provided are all goblins or demons, checking their abilities lead me to believe they're just engineers. Heck, one of them is even a mage.

[Polybius]

Why do all "tinker class" threads get flailed with "demon hunter" concepts and obsessions?

[Hatecore]

Tinker wont happen. The next Class will be Zealot I am naming mine Teriz

[Ielenia]

Why do all "tinker class" threads get flailed with "demon hunter" concepts and obsessions?

My guess would be that tinker and demon hunters are the most 'requested' classes to be added in WoW, so I guess it is sort of innevitable someone brings one into the thread of the other for the means of comparison.

[hrugner]

Why do all "tinker class" threads get flailed with "demon hunter" concepts and obsessions?

The opposite happens in Demon Hunter threads. This thread was started as a parody of a demon hunter thread that got shit up by people talking about tinkers. Actually, the opposite happens in most class threads.

[Polybius]

As much as I'd like to see tinkers, they're less likely to happen. A titan, corrupt titan, time, mind/sound, or void-based class would fit more with expansion themes.

[Sukhoi]

Why do all "tinker class" threads get flailed with "demon hunter" concepts and obsessions?

Its weird, tinkers get brought up in every other class idea thread.

[Polybius]

Its weird, tinkers get brought up in every other class idea thread.

Hmm... from what I've seen demon hunters are the most spammed, especially in "new warlock/shadow talent/class" threads. *shrug* I haven't spent a lot of time on class threads.

[Sukhoi]

Hmm... from what I've seen demon hunters are the most spammed, especially in "new warlock/shadow talent/class" threads. *shrug* I haven't spent a lot of time on class threads.

Yeah saying demon hunters are more spammed than tinkers is a strech. You cant escape them.

[Thimagryn]

And at the end, we are still left with the same problem. The DH class concept has a design space - as do all classes - that encompasses looks, themes, concepts, abilities, gameplay, lore, and more. It's a very good design space. It has a very nice iconic class. It is unfortunate that everything about it bar gameplay also forms part of the Warlock class design space.

It's funny that you mention design space problems, yet even Ghostcrawler does not the Rogue as one of the classes that would overlap.

I do think you're stretching when you try to equate ninja-esque distraction and disappearing mechanics as a reason Demon Hunters can not exist, when we have other characters like the Warlock who can teleport around using the same shadow magic.

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Forsaken Machinist;

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=36292

Who drive these;

http://www.wowhead.com/npc=36283

There's also Kor'Kron Machinist during Siege.

So you want a Machinist class now? That doesn't really look anything like a Tinker, and technically anyone can be a 'Machinist' by riding a siege weapon. I do that often in Strand of the Ancients and Isle of Conquest. We don't really need a class for that.

[Teriz]

So you want a Machinist class now? That doesn't really look anything like a Tinker, and technically anyone can be a 'Machinist' by riding a siege weapon. I do that often in Strand of the Ancients and Isle of Conquest. We don't really need a class for that.

I was merely showing Ielenia an example of a machinist, since Rhamses appeared to be done with their back and forth.

In terms of a class, it would more than likely be a translation of the Tinker WC3 hero unit. Just like the Monk and the Death Knight before it. Like those previous class implementations, the Tinker WC3 abilities currently aren't present within the existing classes. Also, the technology theme isn't shared by any existing classes.

Unlike your bizarre DH concept, I don't need to stretch, bend, or make cheesy concessions to create a workable Tinker concept for WoW.

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So machinists are nothing but pilots/drivers? And since those 'tinkerers' examples you provided are all goblins or demons, checking their abilities lead me to believe they're just engineers. Heck, one of them is even a mage.

Not surprising since you think everything is an engineer. Yet you still haven't provided any evidence to back that up.

In any case, the only profession ability Tinkerer Gizlock and Sniggles had was the Goblin dragon gun. The Tinker class could still get that ability, since it wouldn't be the first time a class ability shares a theme with a profession item.

For example; http://www.wowhead.com/search?q=Healing+Elixir#items

[Thimagryn]

Unlike your bizarre DH concept, I don't need to stretch, bend, or make cheesy concessions to create a workable Tinker concept for WoW.

Except you do, and you are. Because we already know we're not getting the Tinker as it stands from Warcraft 3 or Heroes of the Storm. Both are too whimsical for WoW, and we know Blizzard wants to move away from that. Iron Horde tech would have been awesome for a Tech class concept. But to focus yet another expansion on Iron Horde? I think that ship's sailed.

I do want a class that at least makes use of turrets and uses guns, like the Engineer class from Guild Wars 2. Pocket Factories and Robo Goblins wouldn't really fit in WoW's player class design.

[Teriz]

Except you do, and you are. Because we already know we're not getting the Tinker as it stands from Warcraft 3 or Heroes of the Storm. Both are too whimsical for WoW, and we know Blizzard wants to move away from that. Iron Horde tech would have been awesome for a Tech class concept. But to focus yet another expansion on Iron Horde? I think that ship's sailed.

The exact quote was "might be too whimsical", and we don't know what GC was referring to when he made the comment. Besides, what sounds more ridiculous? A Goblin creating a miniature factory that produces killer robots, or a Drunk Pandaren trying to get their enemies drunk by smashing barrels of alcohol on their heads?

I do want a class that at least makes use of turrets and uses guns, like the Engineer class from Guild Wars 2. Pocket Factories and Robo Goblins wouldn't really fit in WoW's player class design.

What makes them not fit? It goes along perfectly with Goblin technology. A Gnome version would work just as well.

We also have examples of Tinkers using guns and turrets, so no problem there either. We can even bring in Gelbin, Blackfuse, Thermaplugg, the HotS tinker, the Iron Horde, and all he other tech groups that Rhamses mentioned into the fold as well. Since there's no class to compete with, it's all fair game. Giving blizzard a shit ton of design space to work with.

No concessions, only expansions. That's the benefit of having a wide open design space that isn't shared by any other class.

[Aleksej89]

This topic of tinker and/or demon hunter has been over-beaten so many times...

Last 65 pages of this topic alone have exactly zero new ideas or news, instead it is all just constant bickering and sometimes even straight out insulting.

What i have read on the last pages of this thread has already been said in the previous 30 tinker (or DH) threads... it is literally a copy/paste war, duplicating posts from earlier threads on the same topic...

If there are any new classes in the post-WoD expansion, blizzard will definitely let us know upfront.
Absolutely zero point in arguing what class will be next (or will a class be implemented) when it is all up to Blizzard, and they most definitely are already developing the class they chose - since they work on multiple expansions at once.

[Thimagryn]

The exact quote was "might be too whimsical", and we don't know what GC was referring to when he made the comment. Besides, what sounds more ridiculous? A Goblin creating a miniature factory that produces killer robots, or a Drunk Pandaren trying to get their enemies drunk by smashing barrels of alcohol on their heads?

Brewmaster's drunken abilities are also whimsical. As are the Pandaren race. Monks are the least played class, and Pandarens have been in constant conflict with the player base for straying too far from the classic Warcraft fantasy world that people were used to. Blizzard has even admitted they underestimated how the audience was accepted MoP in general, a big part of that due to it's 'lightheartedness'. There's a reason why they don't want another whimsical class. Players want something serious, and it's why Warlords of Draenor is going to be so heavily focused telling a classic 'Warcraft' story.

Pocket Factories, Robo Goblin suits and backpacks with giant robotic hammer-arms are too silly to be taken seriously as a class. I would have a very hard time trying to sell that kind of class to my friends. Even the Torchlight 2 Engineer class is not as over the top as Gazlowe.

Crazy and unique? Yes it is. But who is it going to be aimed at? Goblin and Gnome players? Does this concept even appeal to a female demographic?

If WoW had a technology class, it should be designed similarly to the Engineer in Guild Wars 2. Guns, Turrets, Flamethrowers all wrapped up in a Steampunk style. That's something down-to-earth that anyone could consider playing.

[Teriz]

Brewmaster's drunken abilities are also whimsical. As are the Pandaren race. Monks are the least played class, and Pandarens have been in constant conflict with the player base for straying too far from the classic Warcraft fantasy world that people were used to. There's a reason why they don't want another whimsical race after learning what they did. Players want something serious, and it's why Warlords of Draenor is going to be so heavily focused telling a classic 'Warcraft' story.

Oh please! Don't let the vocal minority fool you. Pandaren are an extremely popular race within the game. Additionally, the Monk class is nipping at the heels of the Rogue and Shaman population, two classes that had 7 year head starts. If Shaman and Rogues don't get significant class changes, the Monk class should surpass both next expansion.

Also let's not speak for Blizzard. Nowhere did they ever state that they regretted putting the Pandaren race into the game.

Pocket Factories, Robo Goblin suits and backpacks with giant robotic hammer-arms are too whimsical for the player base. I would have a very hard time trying to sell that kind of class to my WoW friends. Even the Torchlight 2 Engineer class is not as over the top as Gazlowe.

Gazlowe is merely a reflection of the Goblin race in general. Goblins are over the top, and certifiably crazy. Its what makes them such a fun and enjoyable race to play as, and it also explains their popularity within the Horde.

What would be more appropriate to Warcraft? An Engineer type class as portrayed in Guild Wars 2. Guns, Turrets, Flamethrowers all wrapped up in a Steampunk style.

What's appropriate for Warcraft is already in Warcraft. The Tinker is part of the WC universe, and it was brought in by fan demand.

I'd also like to say that I found GW2 quite boring across the board. No flair, no flavor, no character, no individuality. Everything was just SO bland. I'll take a Goblin Tinker over a boring GW2 Engineer anyday.

[Thimagryn]

"I wanna play a class like Sicco Thermaplugg!" said no one ever.

You're absolutely right that Goblins are over the top and crazy. And they make up the low end of the Horde player base, the majority which is Blood Elf.

But maybe I'm being too critical. You could play as a Blood Elf Tinker and look cool and sexy, right? Except you'd have giant, unsightly robot arms sticking out of your back, and you'd have an ability that lets you jump into a Shredder-like mech suit with just your head peeking out. There's really no way around the keeping both a Tinker identity and alienating a large chunk of the MMORPG player base. There's just some concepts best left to RTS/MOBAs, where a Tinker's whimsy is accepted in short bursts of fun. It doesn't work when you're getting RPG fans to stick with a class that looks like a toy.

The Tinker is part of the WC universe, and it was brought in by fan demand.

Warcraft 3 fans are the minority in WoW. Warcraft 3's fanbase is probably 10% the size of WoW as it currently stands. The entire Warcraft fanbase back then is a lot different from the fanbase as it is now. It's why I even bothered mentioning the female demographic, it was near non-existent back then.

Goblins and Gnomes have always been a part of Warcraft since Warcraft 2, but it doesn't mean they are popular in World of Warcraft. This is the problem you face when trying to pitch a Goblin-centric class design. Blizzard needs to stick with a class concept that will appeal to WoW players, new and old. They aren't going to be able to do that if they introduce a class based on another Warcraft 3 April Fools joke.

[Deleted]

It's true it's just like what I said in another thread. You can't really sell an expansion with a tinker on the box, well you could try I'm sure it would be successful but a legion themed expansion with Illidan on the box including demon hunters as playable (fuck the overlap) would sell so much more, it would be WOTLK 2.0.

[Teriz]

"I wanna play a class like Sicco Thermaplugg!" said no one ever.

That's pretty much your idea of a Tinker as it stands in current WoW lore. You're absolutely right that Goblins are over the top and crazy. And they make up the low end of the Horde player base, the majority which is Blood Elf.

My idea of a Tinker is taking the WC3 core and expanding it. Just like every previous expansion class implementation.

Compared to Blood Elves, every Horde race is on the low end. However, that doesn't mean we should create "WoW: Blood Elves vs Humans" simply because those two are the most popular races in the game.

But maybe I'm being too critical. You could play as a Blood Elf Tinker and look cool and sexy, right? Except you'd have giant, unsightly robot arms sticking out of your back, and you'd have an ability that lets you jump into a Shredder-like mech suit with just your head peeking out. There's really no way around the keeping both a Tinker identity and alienating a large chunk of the MMORPG player base.

Except you have no evidence that any of that would alienate a huge chunk of the MMORPG player base. You're taking your tastes and your biases and applying it to the entire WoW player community. Most of which don't even posts on forums or participate in any polls.

There's just some concepts best left to RTS/MOBAs, where a Tinker's whimsy is accepted in short bursts of fun. It doesn't work when you're getting RPG fans to stick with a class that looks like a toy.

You mean like a Panda-man throwing barrels of beer at people and then setting them on fire ala Donkey Kong?

If Blizzard can turn that nonsense into the most fun spec in MMO history, they can easily make the Tinker work, with all of its charm.

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Warcraft 3 fans are the minority in WoW. Warcraft 3's fanbase is probably 10% the size of WoW as it currently stands. The entire Warcraft fanbase back then is a lot different from the fanbase as it is now. It's why I even bothered mentioning the female demographic, it was near non-existent back then.

Do you even have any statistics to measure the % of female WC3 players?

And WC2 fans in WoW are probably even less than the WC3 fans in WoW. However, the next expansion deals with characters that only WC2 fans would recognize.

To further this point; How many people knew of the Brewmaster before Blizzard put them into the game? If Blizzard was so concerned about bringing out the most popular fan concepts, we'd have a Blademaster class instead of a Warrior class, a Warden class instead of a Rogue class, and a Demon Hunter class instead of a Warlock class. The fact that we don't just shows that Blizzard wants to put in content that helps the longevity of the game, not stuff that is "flash-in-the-pan" popular, and then fades.

Goblins and Gnomes have always been a part of Warcraft since Warcraft 2, but it doesn't mean they are popular in World of Warcraft. This is the problem you face when trying to pitch a Goblin-centric class design. Blizzard needs to stick with a class concept that will appeal to WoW players, new and old. They aren't going to be able to do that if they introduce a class based on another Warcraft 3 April Fools joke.

I love when people pretend to know what's popular and what isn't. We just had several threads in this very forum about Gnomes from passionate Gnome players who would like to see more Gnome stuff brought into the game. Gnomes and Goblins have passionate fan followings.

In the end, only Blizzard knows what's best for their game. Introducing another "WC3 April Fool's Joke" shouldn't be a huge deal since they've already done so, and it actually grew their subscription numbers when everyone expected them to take a tumble.

Again, I'll take the whacky, whimsical Goblin Tinker over the dull, run of the mill GW2 Engineer any day of the week. Just like the WoW Monk is the most whacky, whimsical Monk in the MMO spectrum, yet is the most original, unique, and interesting.

Those attributes make a much more enjoyable gameplay experience.

[Rhamses]

This topic of tinker and/or demon hunter has been over-beaten so many times...

Last 65 pages of this topic alone have exactly zero new ideas or news, instead it is all just constant bickering and sometimes even straight out insulting.

What i have read on the last pages of this thread has already been said in the previous 30 tinker (or DH) threads... it is literally a copy/paste war, duplicating posts from earlier threads on the same topic...

If there are any new classes in the post-WoD expansion, blizzard will definitely let us know upfront.
Absolutely zero point in arguing what class will be next (or will a class be implemented) when it is all up to Blizzard, and they most definitely are already developing the class they chose - since they work on multiple expansions at once.

We've turned a corner I think, so the discussion should hopefully get a bit better from here on out.

We'll have to wait and see.