How is it so hard for Blizzard to stop making stuff unavailable?

[Elegiac]

Besides, despite the fact that I've personally lost out before on various titles, mounts and such, I prefer it when they remove certain things from the game. It makes them feel more special to the few who have them.

Which further propagates the notion that being a special snowflake is somehow an acceptable model of behavior in a game.

[Goretex]

Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion CM's were a bad idea. I try to get in grps to do them then the groups fall apart because people don't like the difficulty /facepalm.

[Elegiac]

Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion CM's were a bad idea. I try to get in grps to do them then the groups fall apart because people don't like the difficulty /facepalm.

CMs failed for the same reason that XP-off BGs failed. People lied about their reasons for wanting X to stay the same and Blizzard held them to it.

[Durantye]

Which further propagates the notion that being a special snowflake is somehow an acceptable model of behavior in a game.

Well I think that having things that are unobtainable anymore is fine so long as it isn't a 'one time only' use of a mount model or something, the cmode gear though I'd like to see it removed from current ones but added as a reward if you get gold twice or something next expansion. But I think having a few things from the old days when the content was hard isn't that bad promotes people to get it while it is current and feels somewhat cheapened when someone can get lucky and get it next expansion if they make it a rare drop.

[Elegiac]

Well I think that having things that are unobtainable anymore is fine so long as it isn't a 'one time only' use of a mount model or something, the cmode gear though I'd like to see it removed from current ones but added as a reward if you get gold twice or something next expansion. But I think having a few things from the old days when the content was hard isn't that bad promotes people to get it while it is current and feels somewhat cheapened when someone can get lucky and get it next expansion if they make it a rare drop.

And I feel that people who feel that way invest far too much energy into worrying about what other people are doing. Gladys Kravitz Syndrome.

[Durantye]

And I feel that people who feel that way invest far too much energy into worrying about what other people are doing. Gladys Kravitz Syndrome.

More like having a class ring actually

[Elegiac]

More like having a class ring actually

I don't recall the last time I was impressed by a class ring.

Typically, the line of thought for the average player who doesn't have X piece of unattainable gear is "Wow, that looks cool, I wonder if I can do it. Oh." Not "that person is so cool for having X."

[Erolian]

Which further propagates the notion that being a special snowflake is somehow an acceptable model of behavior in a game.

I don't see how having prestigious items or accomplishments isn't acceptable in a video game. Why having goals and exceptional feats that dedicated individuals or groups can accomplish is a bad thing. In fact the only bad thing I can think of involved on either side of this coin is people either gloating and holding it over others or the opposite where some people feel like they're worthless when they can't accomplish something. Both groups being a huge minority in my experiences. So for the sake of the rest of us normal people who might take personal pride in something they did without pushing it down everyone else's throats and/or can recognize that others may be better than we are at a video game without it ruining or even affecting our self esteem I'd rather Blizzard continues with business as usual and removing some things that are meant to be challenging and rewarding when they clearly will stop being that due to an upcoming change. That's just me though

[Elegiac]

I don't see how having prestigious items or accomplishments isn't acceptable in a video game. Why having goals and exceptional feats that dedicated individuals or groups can accomplish is a bad thing. In fact the only bad thing I can think of involved on either side of this coin is people either gloating and holding it over others or the opposite where some people feel like they're worthless when they can't accomplish something. Both groups being a huge minority in my experiences. So for the sake of the rest of us normal people who might take personal pride in something they did without pushing it down everyone else's throats and/or can recognize that others may be better than we are at a video game without it ruining or even affecting our self esteem I'd rather Blizzard continues with business as usual and removing some things that are meant to be challenging and rewarding when they clearly will stop being that due to an upcoming change. That's just me though

The problem is that unattainability does not equal prestige, especially with the advent of the Achievement system. I would much rather people be able to get mounts and gear that they look cool, and let the special snowflakes have their Feats of Strength.

[Nakiri]

The reasons behind the removal of the Challenge Mode in my opinion is correct, in the end it'ss a challenge not a "i will come later to farm them in solo", but a good suggestion/idea is to keep the MoP challenge modes available for lvl 90s only, as the "Herald of the Titans" title is obtainable only by 80s.

[Durantye]

I don't recall the last time I was impressed by a class ring.

Typically, the line of thought for the average player who doesn't have X piece of unattainable gear is "Wow, that looks cool, I wonder if I can do it. Oh." Not "that person is so cool for having X."

I don't really see why you are against the mounts being unattainable the models will be used again and the Clutch of Ji-kun is the same mount with a slightly different shade. I mean I think I'd prefer they regularly made a couple (not a lot) of thing unattainable just for people to collect to remember they'd been there, so even new players will have things like that.

[DemoBytom]

Challenge modes should be treated the same as arenas, where rewards go out of date and disaapear.. Even in-expansion patches can completely change how well you can do them..
I'd say that even today it's much different game than it was at MoP launch - much, much more sockets in gear to use, changed class mechanics (vengeance for ex)..
It'd be stupid to leave them - in the end it's pretty much a vanity items farming place to show off your accomplishments - so I do see a point in making it unavailable, when next expansion might trivialize it to some point. And as much as I'd love to get the sets on my alts (that I'll prolly won't), I do think it's better to have those unique achievements stay unique.

[Elegiac]

I don't really see why you are against the mounts being unattainable the models will be used again and the Clutch of Ji-kun is the same mount with a slightly different shade. I mean I think I'd prefer they regularly made a couple (not a lot) of thing unattainable just for people to collect to remember they'd been there, so even new players will have things like that.

Your logic is unsound. The fact that they have the item in the first place means that they have a tangible reminder - how does exclusivity relate to that in the slightest?

[Durantye]

The problem is that unattainability does not equal prestige, especially with the advent of the Achievement system. I would much rather people be able to get mounts and gear that they look cool, and let the special snowflakes have their Feats of Strength.

What I read was that you want to wait and get it with minimal to no effort and that anyone that doesn't want things that used to be difficult handed out like candy on halloween should be satisfied with an achievement to satisfy their special snowflake syndrome.

[Elegiac]

What I read was that you want to wait and get it with minimal to no effort and that anyone that doesn't want things that used to be difficult handed out like candy on halloween should be satisfied with an achievement to satisfy their special snowflake syndrome.

Essentially, yes. They should be happy that they got it when it used to be hard rather than trying to diminish other people's choices for the sake of their ego.

[Durantye]

Your logic is unsound. The fact that they have the item in the first place means that they have a tangible reminder - how does exclusivity relate to that in the slightest?

Because if anyone can go obtain it like halloween candy after the fact that seems a little unfair to me, perhaps leaving it as a 'Herald of the Titans' achievement would work but allowing people to solo it all and grab what used to be something prestigous diminishes the value to me.

- - - Updated - - -

Essentially, yes. They should be happy that they got it when it used to be hard rather than trying to diminish other people's choices for the sake of their ego.

There are plenty of choices left that we should be allowed to have our special snowflake items once in a blue moon.

[DemoBytom]

Well, with the way the scaling works, I dont see why they couldnt keep the mists challenge modes in game. Just scale the players to that exact level and stats and have at it.

Unfortunatelly it doesn't work like that.. Class changes play soo much role into overall balance it's ridiculous..
Some time ago I saw 2 pallies duoing Herald of Titans.. That means they were lv 80, with Ulduar 10-man gear only killing Algalon, while pretty much ignoring most of the stuff going on there.. They were "scaled down" to the content, to the required item level, and had it easier than we did in back in Wrath in ICC 25man gear :? That's how much a class and mechanics changes change the game.
It's pretty much impossible to scale players down to exact same "power" level after WoD...

[Elegiac]

Because if anyone can go obtain it like halloween candy after the fact that seems a little unfair to me, perhaps leaving it as a 'Herald of the Titans' achievement would work but allowing people to solo it all and grab what used to be something prestigous diminishes the value to me.

Because you, like every other special snowflake, worries too much about what other people are doing. Do I necessarily give a shit because someone has full T8 when I worked my ass off in Ulduar to get it? No. I'm happy for the fact I have a damn cool looking set.

[Erolian]

The problem is that unattainability does not equal prestige, especially with the advent of the Achievement system. I would much rather people be able to get mounts and gear that they look cool, and let the special snowflakes have their Feats of Strength.

The intent with CMs specifically was for the gear/achievement to be sort of like a Gladiator title/mount except for PvE instead of PvP. To be a challenging activity with a reward basically. In a perfect world I would say they should remain available forever and more or less tuned to the difficulty they've been at for this entire expansion. Problem is that Blizzard would have a near impossible job of keeping it tuned the same way. They already kinda failed here with patch to patch changes so I don't entirely agree with how they've been handled. So the choice is really to leave them in for cosmetic purposes while throwing out the intended model/treatment for the system they created or to retire them and release the next "season" of CMs. It looks like they want to stick to their original intentions for now but we'll see. Since this is kind of the same thing that went down with T7.

[Axphyxiate]

I agree that they aren't consistent however Challenge Modes were added with the intention of being difficult and hard to obtain. If earning the gear sets is made trivial with the pre-expac patch then Challenge Modes cease to meet their purpose and they might as well remove them while they are still 'hard'.

To be honest if someone really wants the gear they have plenty of time to earn it, or if they're not able to do it themselves they can go buy a carry for ~120k gold :P