I feel that the burst game is going to lessen in S15

[Anzen]

No. Bust is higher in full 550

Can't wait till the new season in that case then, when peoples busts will be so high they'll come out their clothing!

[Deleted]

lol I'm watching watchmeblink on stream. He crits for 150k-200k as arcane mage.

Yeah no bursts

[morislayer]

lol I'm watching watchmeblink on stream. He crits for 150k-200k as arcane mage.

Yeah no bursts

What are the health pools like?

I ask because, 1) With the Buff to res & trinkets I'm sitting at 80.8% with res gems. It is completely worthless to gem res now. I'm debating gemming full stam / primary stat to get my health as high as possible to counter the high burst. 2) A 200k crit on a health pool of 800k is similar to what we are seeing now with higher crits (like chimera).

Would love to be a 1 million hp holy paly in a random bg by the end of this season :P

[jwlol]

As a healer, I don't feel much difference in random bgs, to be honest. Geared players who know what they're doing still rape me if 2 or more connect and if I don't get peels/heals.

[Korgoth]

Hmmm maybe we are playing on different PTR, because the one I am on damage is worse then last season. Especially mage/lock.

[Lulbalance]

lol I'm watching watchmeblink on stream. He crits for 150k-200k as arcane mage.

Yeah no bursts

he sets that up with rainbow procs tho. most mages will not do what he does consistently because most mags a] are not as good as jones b](and more importantly) don't play with players as good as jones.


that said.. no one should expect anything but the worst season of MoP yet. i say that because this expansion will likely already go down as the worst xpac for pvp in the history of the game - and they know it. they've already jumped ship for WoD.

[Rucati]

What are the health pools like?

I ask because, 1) With the Buff to res & trinkets I'm sitting at 80.8% with res gems. It is completely worthless to gem res now. I'm debating gemming full stam / primary stat to get my health as high as possible to counter the high burst. 2) A 200k crit on a health pool of 800k is similar to what we are seeing now with higher crits (like chimera).

Would love to be a 1 million hp holy paly in a random bg by the end of this season :P

Hasn't been worthwhile to gem resilience since the first season of MoP. And I don't see why you'd say it's worthless now if you did it before, Resilience is more beneficial the more of it you get, meaning going from 80%-82% has more of an impact than going from like 70%-72%, so if anything Resilience gems are better now than they were before. But they still aren't worth using.

As for health, expect about 550-600k or so. Gear is 550 ilvl, so just find a raid geared player with 550 ilvl and expect the same. On my 556 ilvl Warrior I have about 560k, so around that is a safe bet.

that said.. no one should expect anything but the worst season of MoP yet. i say that because this expansion will likely already go down as the worst xpac for pvp in the history of the game - and they know it. they've already jumped ship for WoD.

I highly disagree, on both fronts. This season will probably be pretty decent, damage will be higher than last season yeah, but so is health, so I don't think it'll be that bad. And no season has had as many viable comps/classes as season 14, let's be honest here. Season 14 only had 4 specs that weren't viable (Feral, Boomkin, WW Monk, Ret Paladin) and it was still possible to get Glad or rank 1 with those specs, they just happened to be the weakest.

I'd also say all the seasons in MoP were pretty good, the only things that were bad were Hunter Stampede, which was literally broken and got fixed pretty fast. And Warrior taste for blood stacks, which also got changed pretty fast. Other than that, not much to really complain about. Seasons have been pretty balanced. I'll take MoP arenas over Cata arenas any day of the week, no questions asked.

[Tyrean]

I'd also say all the seasons in MoP were pretty good, the only things that were bad were Hunter Stampede, which was literally broken and got fixed pretty fast. And Warrior taste for blood stacks, which also got changed pretty fast. Other than that, not much to really complain about. Seasons have been pretty balanced. I'll take MoP arenas over Cata arenas any day of the week, no questions asked.

Mage frost bomb/fire blast one shots, warlock demonology one shots, warlock chaos bolt one shots, warrior pummel silence, shadow priest off heals/swap, holy priest/feral teams (ugh), elemental shaman even more random "wtf killed me" one shots than now....

I am sure I missed some, but you get the point. And I would hardly call the stampede and taste for blood quick fixes. It took them forever just to acknowledge that stampede was not working right and even longer to fix it. Taste for blood was up long enough to let a lot of warriors sit on rank 1.

[Rucati]

Mage frost bomb/fire blast one shots, warlock demonology one shots, warlock chaos bolt one shots, warrior pummel silence, shadow priest off heals/swap, holy priest/feral teams (ugh), elemental shaman even more random "wtf killed me" one shots than now....

I am sure I missed some, but you get the point. And I would hardly call the stampede and taste for blood quick fixes. It took them forever just to acknowledge that stampede was not working right and even longer to fix it. Taste for blood was up long enough to let a lot of warriors sit on rank 1.

I'm guessing you mainly do 2s... Mage Frost bomb was pretty easy to deal with in most situations, I honestly don't remember Demo locks ever one shotting anything. Chaos Bolt is pretty easy to deal with, plenty of ways to stop it. Warrior pummel silence got fixed quick. SPriest swap and offheals were good yeah, but just one aspect of them that made the entire class too strong. Holy/Feral is 2s and doesn't count. Ele Shaman can't really one shot.

I feel like you're exaggerating quite a bit to prove a point, and it isn't really working.

And I'd call them quick fixes, it happened within a few weeks, that's pretty quick. Any thing that makes a class overpowered that lasts even a single day is up long enough to let people sit on rank 1 if they abuse it. Can easily push from 0-2400+ in one day if you play for a few hours and win most of your games by abusing something that's clearly overpowered. Even more so if you're already 2300+ MMR to start with.

[Xavv]

Eh.

OP clearly has spent no time on the PTR, where a handful of classes are more than capable of bursting down most classes inside of a 4-6 second window, quicker than anything that has been possible since the beginning of MoP.

><

It's gonna be an interesting few weeks

[Lulbalance]

I highly disagree, on both fronts. This season will probably be pretty decent, damage will be higher than last season yeah, but so is health, so I don't think it'll be that bad. And no season has had as many viable comps/classes as season 14, let's be honest here. Season 14 only had 4 specs that weren't viable (Feral, Boomkin, WW Monk, Ret Paladin) and it was still possible to get Glad or rank 1 with those specs, they just happened to be the weakest.

why do you think that? what changes have been made to make you so optimistic? you've listed nothing, so this is worthless. I on the other hand; don't need to list specifics because all the problem areas are still in the game unaddressed.

[Tyrean]

I'm guessing you mainly do 2s... Mage Frost bomb was pretty easy to deal with in most situations, I honestly don't remember Demo locks ever one shotting anything. Chaos Bolt is pretty easy to deal with, plenty of ways to stop it. Warrior pummel silence got fixed quick. SPriest swap and offheals were good yeah, but just one aspect of them that made the entire class too strong. Holy/Feral is 2s and doesn't count. Ele Shaman can't really one shot.

I feel like you're exaggerating quite a bit to prove a point, and it isn't really working.

And I'd call them quick fixes, it happened within a few weeks, that's pretty quick. Any thing that makes a class overpowered that lasts even a single day is up long enough to let people sit on rank 1 if they abuse it. Can easily push from 0-2400+ in one day if you play for a few hours and win most of your games by abusing something that's clearly overpowered. Even more so if you're already 2300+ MMR to start with.

Umm... frost bomb was not easy to deal with when you could detonate it with fire blast. Bomb/Frost bolt/detonate/deep/lance dead. No setup, can't do shit about it. Demo locks were most definitely one shotting everything and I had totally forgot about them being able to cast while moving, chaos bolt was for sure hitting hard with sac up which is why they changed it, warrior silence lasted until 5.1, an entire patch cycle, holy/feral is in 3s, with just about anything else and the only reason it is not run anymore is because of the feral. And ele shaman can for sure one shot, before echo got nerfed and the proc rate on instant lava bursts got nerfed you would be playing a game against them and all is going well and then you eat 4 lava bursts in one GCD and game over. That lasted until just not to long ago.

Sounds like you have some selective memory. This has been the worst expansion for pvp mostly due to just stupid things that were obviously broken in pvp but it would take them MONTHS to do anything about it. Basically ruining an entire season. Each season thus far has had something that is so totally out of line with the rest of the pack that it makes S5 look silly in comparison.

[Kazgrel]

Full 550 ilvl you can expect to have 600k hp, give or take (I base this off my 546 ilvl TG fury war).

Problem is the amount of factors that increase damage (main stat like str, pvp power, and secondaries) vs stats to reduce damage...oh wait (cool 5k resil is 3% damage reduction).

Of course WoD will fix it. /s

[worstpvperus]

Umm... frost bomb was not easy to deal with when you could detonate it with fire blast. Bomb/Frost bolt/detonate/deep/lance dead. No setup, can't do shit about it. Demo locks were most definitely one shotting everything and I had totally forgot about them being able to cast while moving, chaos bolt was for sure hitting hard with sac up which is why they changed it, warrior silence lasted until 5.1, an entire patch cycle, holy/feral is in 3s, with just about anything else and the only reason it is not run anymore is because of the feral. And ele shaman can for sure one shot, before echo got nerfed and the proc rate on instant lava bursts got nerfed you would be playing a game against them and all is going well and then you eat 4 lava bursts in one GCD and game over. That lasted until just not to long ago.

Sounds like you have some selective memory. This has been the worst expansion for pvp mostly due to just stupid things that were obviously broken in pvp but it would take them MONTHS to do anything about it. Basically ruining an entire season. Each season thus far has had something that is so totally out of line with the rest of the pack that it makes S5 look silly in comparison.

Chaos bolt and all that stuff didn't one shot if u had defensive cool downs. You could dispel frost bomb or pop defensive cool downs to stop it. Lets pretend for a second wotlk didn't have random crits streaks and lol legendaries proc for the win.

[Tyrean]

Chaos bolt and all that stuff didn't one shot if u had defensive cool downs. You could dispel frost bomb or pop defensive cool downs to stop it. Lets pretend for a second wotlk didn't have random crits streaks and lol legendaries proc for the win.

Yeah, because everyone tries to kill you through defensives and no one covers their kill attempts with cross CC... sigh

[Rucati]

why do you think that? what changes have been made to make you so optimistic? you've listed nothing, so this is worthless. I on the other hand; don't need to list specifics because all the problem areas are still in the game unaddressed.

Season 14 was good, there were no changes, so Season 15 will also be good. That's what makes me optimistic. If they had changed a bunch of things I'd expect less, but with the only two changes being the Nerve Strike nerf, which was needed, and the Warrior double interrupt nerf, which was arguably needed, I'd say this season is gonna be pretty good.

Umm... frost bomb was not easy to deal with when you could detonate it with fire blast. Bomb/Frost bolt/detonate/deep/lance dead. No setup, can't do shit about it. Demo locks were most definitely one shotting everything and I had totally forgot about them being able to cast while moving, chaos bolt was for sure hitting hard with sac up which is why they changed it, warrior silence lasted until 5.1, an entire patch cycle, holy/feral is in 3s, with just about anything else and the only reason it is not run anymore is because of the feral. And ele shaman can for sure one shot, before echo got nerfed and the proc rate on instant lava bursts got nerfed you would be playing a game against them and all is going well and then you eat 4 lava bursts in one GCD and game over. That lasted until just not to long ago.

Sounds like you have some selective memory. This has been the worst expansion for pvp mostly due to just stupid things that were obviously broken in pvp but it would take them MONTHS to do anything about it. Basically ruining an entire season. Each season thus far has had something that is so totally out of line with the rest of the pack that it makes S5 look silly in comparison.

No set up, except you had to cast a Bomb, then a Frost Bolt, then Deep, and hope none of it gets dispelled, which anyone with half a brain would do. Sounds like your team just doesn't know what dispel is, cam say I never had much of a problem with it. It's pretty comparable to the current Chaos Bolt, can do over half your life, but it's pretty easy to stop. So not really sure what the problem was, can safely say Frost Bomb only ever bothered me in 2s, since it was pretty easy for them to do, but in 3s it wasn't that bad.

Sounds like you just like to exaggerate. Things "one shotting" you when in reality it took multiple globals and was obviously preventable, don't really know what else to say about it. If you died to 4 lava bursts in one GCD, when Lava Bursts crit for like 50k and you have over 400k health, it means you were already under 50%. So no, the shaman didn't global you in one GCD because you were already half dead. Things like that take away any validity you had because it's obvious you're just making things up to prove a point.

And comparing it to S5 is laughable. MoP PvP has been better than all of Cataclysm, and most of Wrath. Nothing else to really say. The only "overpowered" things in MoP PvP are things that bad players don't know how to prevent so people say it's broken, overall though, the entire expansion has been pretty good if you're coordinated with your teammates.

Full 550 ilvl you can expect to have 600k hp, give or take (I base this off my 546 ilvl TG fury war).

Problem is the amount of factors that increase damage (main stat like str, pvp power, and secondaries) vs stats to reduce damage...oh wait (cool 5k resil is 3% damage reduction).

Of course WoD will fix it. /s

5k Resil (74% -> 80%) is more than 3% damage reduction. In fact, it's 30% damage reduction, so you appear to have forgotten to move the decimal point. So yeah, damage is still going up this season, but not by very much, it'll be very very similar to what season 14 was like.

[worstpvperus]

Yeah, because everyone tries to kill you through defensives and no one covers their kill attempts with cross CC... sigh

"No setup, can't do shit about it" If they have to force defensive cool downs and trinkets that is setup something up. That is the one thing mist did well almost all of the burst but elementals was counter able.

[apepi]

I think the reason people are thinking that it is because of the trinlet resil buff, when people get better gear it will level out.

[Tyrean]

I don't even know how to respond to you guys. It seems you think that dispel is always available, that your dispeller is never in any CC, that the term "one-shot" has not morphed over the years to mean I got killed in too short a time span to respond (i.e. 100-0 in a kidney/bomb). If you really think it is oh so hard to get a chaos bolt off even now, or that there are not some specs that just sit on you until you are at 60%ish health throw some instant and un-counterable CC out and then pop CDS and you die without being able to do anything then I want to play at the rating you are playing at because it will be fun stomping the morons who don't know what they are doing.

EDIT: So Rucati, I went and read some of your post history to try to figure out where you are coming from and I am a bit surprised you are taking this stance in this particular thread. I believe you when you say you are an above average player rating wise, but in other threads you also talk about the burst problem and how it will be worse this patch. I also believe you when you say the season is relatively balanced and I agree to an extent. There are a lot more classes viable than there have ever been, but it does not change the problems that still exist. Think if the hybrids could actually function how balanced everything would be?

In any event, I had formed an opinion of you in this thread that led me to not treat your ideas with much respect, but reading your post history makes me change that opinion. I would like you to think about some of the classes that synergize very well together and also have the ability to force some CDs without using major cooldowns. Think about turbocleave as an example of a comp that can either train a target without immunity right out of the gate, or can force some minor CDs and then open full force.

[Brakos]

Burst is counterable. It can be considerable but there is always a counter for someone who knows what they are doing.

Let's set aside season numbers. Every season there are certain classes in the top tiers. There always will be. And those comps when you play poorly against them will tear you apart.

But if you and your team are skilled there is always a strong comp for every class out there that has synergy and with skill can be successful. Can you get to 2.5k+ with it? No. But when you look at it honestly what percentage of players are at that skill level in PvP? Not many. That's a tier reserved for the best of the best, whether they are using the dominant comp or not. At that level glaring differences between comps will be the most visible and that's why you see those people(regardless of the class they play) competing against one another with the same comps. To test one another's personal skill.

Now where the majority of us play, you can use just about any comp and do well as long as it's not something ridiculous. And if you know what you're doing you can counter burst.

However, I don't feel burst will be as high this season. I feel that it will be high. But I think the increases to HP, Resilience, and other myriad factors will temper it. Even if only slightly.