About the new Haster > Crit now...

[Trictagon]

(this post is exclusively about BM)

As always, getting too much of any one secondary stat can be bad. As an example, the more haste you get, the more valuable crit and mastery become per point, eventually passing haste in value. Personally I prioritize haste on reforges, and leave TED unreforged (full mastery) as a quick way to balance the stats.

Depending on the fight length, the value of mastery can shift drastically. If a fight lasts exactly 6 minutes and 40 seconds (worst case scenario), it means you were only able to cast two stampedes, and it came off cd right as the boss died. Seeing how stampede is 8m~ damage per cast when stacked with dextrous and it the strongest modifier it has is mastery, it's a big deal.

For individual fight rankings/progression, if you know exactly how long a boss encounter will last, you can fine tune your mastery to haste balance. As an example, I went mastery>>haste>crit for heroic garrosh progression because of the way the fight works. It always goes 2minutes on boss -> 1 minute transition (some boss uptime) -> 2 minutes on boss, etc. Because of this, you will have higher % stampede uptime on the boss as compared to a patchwerk fight, and boss damage is king for this particular boss. If you're fighting a boss that will give you low % stampede uptime, haste is > mastery.

A lot of fights this tier have burst aoe phases (immerseus, sha of pride, galakras, shamans, malkorok if you hit adds, spoils, thok, siegecrafter if you do mines, garrosh). For burst aoe, haste has a very low value, and mastery has an insanely high value.

Also, I don't know why people are saying having low crit gives you low burst, it's quite the opposite actually. Because with full agi procs on pull you gain 35%~ crit, mastery and haste's values skyrocket for that short time, especially when stampede is used (this is the main reason haste and mastery shine with a lot of gear).

TL;DR: haste is not > mastery in all situations. Mastery=Haste>crit for high gear levels, with mastery being better for specific fight lengths. Mastery also dominates on burst aoe (8-9 of the 14 bosses). Haste is only better than mastery for pure single target fights with unknown lengths, or lengths that make stampede uptime low. Mastery actually beats haste more often than haste beats mastery, but again, there is a balance that must be found so one does not pass the other in value.

[Deleted]

Going to progress on Garrosh HC at least the next ID and wanted to go back to Haste = Mastery > Crit.

Because I am switching to SV quite often (but mainly BM) I chose the reforgelite settings of RogerBrown. DPS wise I cant complain, but for the Garrosh Progress I want to optimize this.

I have HCWF Malkorok Weapon and HC TED at my hands. So there is some mastery to play with.

Current Settings: (as mentioned RogerBrowns)
Crit: 160
Haste: 150
Mastery: 130

What would you recommend as Stat Priority for Haste > Mastery > Crit or Mastery > Haste > Crit reforging


Just swap the statweights around (depending on the priority) or would you adjust them in any form?
AMR-Statweights are equally helpful

[Azortharion]

Going to progress on Garrosh HC at least the next ID and wanted to go back to Haste = Mastery > Crit.

Because I am switching to SV quite often (but mainly BM) I chose the reforgelite settings of RogerBrown. DPS wise I cant complain, but for the Garrosh Progress I want to optimize this.

I have HCWF Malkorok Weapon and HC TED at my hands. So there is some mastery to play with.

Current Settings: (as mentioned RogerBrowns)
Crit: 160
Haste: 150
Mastery: 130

What would you recommend as Stat Priority for Haste > Mastery > Crit or Mastery > Haste > Crit reforging


Just swap the statweights around (depending on the priority) or would you adjust them in any form?
AMR-Statweights are equally helpful

Go BM with this:

It's just standard Haste > Mastery > Crit.

[Leakage]

Is Haste>Mastery>Crit best at all gear levels? My hunter is 545 and I play exclusively BM for PvE.

[Deleted]

I am quite surprised at this statement. SV is RNG and BM controlled burst. There is no way SV is better for belt than BM - quite the contrary, unless overgeared, SV is going to have difficulty.

Anyway a well played BM is superior to SV in almost every situation. Singletarget simulation put BM way ahead of SV at high ilevel ( 418k vs 404k with BiS )
There is only 2 fights where SV can be better and that is Immerseus and Thok.
For target switching, I personally prefer BM since pet has a 100% uptime on boss while you switch.

but don't forget BM is a lot harder to play compared to SV. So if you hunter performs poorly in BM, that is not the spec but the player.


Back on topic, only reforge with haste if you play BM only. If you switch between specs, Crit is the best secondary. It is more optimal as both spec get good value on it while haste only benefits BM.

I'm sorry but the statement of BM being a lot harder to play than SV is utter bollocks. There is nothing that makes BM a harder spec to play at all. The only slight argument you can have is keeping beast cleave up in AoE, which takes all of a weakaura to keep track of. All your pet management is dealt with by macro's, and pet management isn't non-existant from SV either, if you want to perform optimally.

[mercychan]

I'm sorry but the statement of BM being a lot harder to play than SV is utter bollocks. There is nothing that makes BM a harder spec to play at all. The only slight argument you can have is keeping beast cleave up in AoE, which takes all of a weakaura to keep track of. All your pet management is dealt with by macro's, and pet management isn't non-existant from SV either, if you want to perform optimally.

Not everyone is an 88th percentile player. Keeping 100% uptime on beast cleave while maintaining your single target rotation and not getting focus depleted is significantly harder than lelserpentspread

[Deleted]

Not everyone is an 88th percentile player. Keeping 100% uptime on beast cleave while maintaining your single target rotation and not getting focus depleted is significantly harder than lelserpentspread

It has more to it, agreed. It's hardly "a lot harder to play compared to SV" though. It is if anything, ever so slightly harder in AoE situations.

[Azortharion]

It has more to it, agreed. It's hardly "a lot harder to play compared to SV" though. It is if anything, ever so slightly harder in AoE situations.

I think the thing is that BM is much less reliant on RNG/thus cannot be carried by it. Doesn't take an 88th percentile player to spam Explosive Shot when you get lucky (which is, for its duration, doing max damage). With ToTH/Fervor being the talents of choice and Explosive Shot's focus cost being so low, there's MUCH more room for error with regards to overspending on Arcane Shot whereas with BM you're generally very starved (you're usually DB after all) with your signature costing 40 focus and your dump being 30 focus all the time, except during BW - and even during BW you have to plan ahead and build a good 60-70 focus (reacting in advance naturally), not to mention Focus Fire usage.. You get my point.

Sure, as with everything else in this game, that stuff can be handled for you by WeakAuras but knowing what to put in those WeakAura settings is a science in and on itself. This forum mostly discusses "simple" stuff, there isn't any super-advanced elaborate hunter guide (considered making one but then I realized the audience would be sooo small for such a thing and would only really confuse the shit out of the layman learning hunter for the first time).

There's just so many more elements to top percentile play because as much as one could nitpick on the planning/stuff you have to do as SV those things are FEW, and the things there are are not a huge deal.

1) "Snapshotting" Black Arrow on trinket procs.
2) Not wasting Black Arrow ticks on LnL's that won't happen because of its ICD.

Maybe I'm biased as a BM player but I'm open-minded so please list more Survival min-max things that you think makes the spec relatively "difficult" stacked up against BM. I don't entirely suck at SV but having not played it for a -while- I guess I'm no master. I can't think of stuff behind what I already said.

[Deleted]

Spamming explosive shot is hard.

BM is a lot more rewarding when played "perfectly". No matter how well you play survival, your dps is always determined by your luck with lnl procs and do they proc same time with trinkets.

[Kissthebaby]

Spamming explosive shot is hard.

BM is a lot more rewarding when played "perfectly". No matter how well you play survival, your dps is always determined by your luck with lnl procs and do they proc same time with trinkets.

It's the same for BM. If you have poop trinket up times then your dps won't be great. Gotta love 12 percent uptime on TED

[Azortharion]

It's the same for BM. If you have poop trinket up times then your dps won't be great. Gotta love 12 percent uptime on TED

Try 5.0%. c.c

[Kiea]

It's the same for BM. If you have poop trinket up times then your dps won't be great. Gotta love 12 percent uptime on TED

Well DPS will always depend on trinket up times, you think SV doesn't have burst? wait till you get 2 back to back Haroms on pull, together with purely spamming explosive shot cause of RNG.

On the flip side, imagine BM as well, 2 back to back TED's on the pull, it is up for all of stampede and such.

Personally I think BM is harder in some parts, but I would also classify survival in its current state as an awkward spec to play, if you get very lucky with ES procs you could sit there spamming it for 30 seconds (And I have done that), while you sit there, you are at max focus, and it is wierd to play.

In short, SV is a very random rotation, it requires you to make decisions on the spot, where as BM can be planned out entirely in my opinion, the only thing that will vary is if you get a TED proc and you use arcane shots a bit earlier than you otherwise would, since the way to play BM is just sit at high focus anticipating a TED proc, when as survival you wanna be scraping 0 focus as often as possible since if you get a sick LnL proc you will overcap on focus so much.


Also just for note, I do not have insane rankings or anything this tier since playing paladin for most of it and just getting the good gear now to rank, but used to get top 20 ranks on a lot of bosses before.

[Azortharion]

Personally I think BM is harder in some parts, but I would also classify survival in its current state as an awkward spec to play, if you get very lucky with ES procs you could sit there spamming it for 30 seconds (And I have done that), while you sit there, you are at max focus, and it is wierd to play.

Sure thing but it is everything but hard. It's literally the easiest thing you can do except not press anything at all.

[Kiea]

Sure thing but it is everything but hard. It's literally the easiest thing you can do except not press anything at all.

I think I ended up rambling a bit, my conclusion is that you can plan out a BM spec almost to the second, where as a survival spec it will always change what you do depending on procs. Two different playstyles really.

[anjan011]

since 4P T16, SV became a one button spamming class :P

[Deleted]

Most of the 25 Man hunters I've seen, especially the ones that have done or currently progressing HC Garrosh run Mastery > Haste > crit for BM, but if you're doing 10 Man heroic or normal Survival just comes out on top for majority of fights, a lot of the potential for BM just isn't there on 10 Man, especially when you're guilds not very far, i.e 3/14 heroic like mine.

But you could probably keep up with Survival as BM on 10 man

[Azortharion]

Most of the 25 Man hunters I've seen, especially the ones that have done or currently progressing HC Garrosh run Mastery > Haste > crit

Seems kind of silly when Haste > Mastery > Crit is superior on single-target.

[blackpink]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ayeon/advanced

So I got my heroic weapon and have HWF aoc and thinking of switching to bm full time. Is this setup correct? Haste > mastery > crit? Would it net higher dps than surv with my current gear?

Also, is focus fire really worth using? I notice my dmg go down everytime I use it.

[Azortharion]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ayeon/advanced

So I got my heroic weapon and have HWF aoc and thinking of switching to bm full time. Is this setup correct? Haste > mastery > crit? Would it net higher dps than surv with my current gear?

Also, is focus fire really worth using? I notice my dmg go down everytime I use it.

Yeah, definitely go BM now.

Haste (to 14800) > Mastery > More Haste = Crit

Focus Fire is a significant DPS increase and should be used.

[blackpink]

Yeah, definitely go BM now.

Haste (to 14800) > Mastery > More Haste = Crit

Focus Fire is a significant DPS increase and should be used.

Hey can you explain what exactly the 14800 haste cap gives? I see people talking about it but never really knew why people are going for it.