WoD: Disc Priest Golden Time?

[Deleted]

http://wowpedia.org/Attributes/Warlords

Appears to suggest that all healing is being changed to 150% critical strike effect. Unfortunately, I can't find the original blue quote.

[Isheria]

It's PvP only, here's some proof in case you don't believe me: https://twitter.com/holinka/status/429300124750065664

[Deleted]

It's PvP only, here's some proof in case you don't believe me: https://twitter.com/holinka/status/429300124750065664

Thank you for the information!

[Deleted]

A) Like Spirit Link (which is FAR more limiting).
B) Like Divine Hymn, and Tranquility if your Druid can't give Symbiosis to a Shaman for some reason. You said that if you have to move during a Divine Hymn it's your bad, same goes for Spirit Shell. Also, moving a small amount will reduce your Spirit Shell effectiveness, but not break it entirely, the same is not the case with Divine Hymn or non-SWG Tranquility, or having to move from Spirit Link for whatever reason.
C) Knowing the fight and when to use CDs is a basic raiding requirement. Spirit Shell does require tad more planning than other 3 minute CDs, true.

You don't mention some of the advantages it has over most other CDs though -
A) Preemptive healing, you heal before the damage happened and then can fully heal when it happens as well (Healing Tide Totem works similarly, I guess).
B) Offers an effective health increase (Only Power Word :Barrier is similar in that regard).
C) No other healer has a similar spell (Spirit Link shares that sentiment, though it's not in the same ballpark as Spirit Shell to be honest).

The biggest problem with Spirit Shell, in my opinion, is the fact that it's an ability that has no equivalent among other healers, yet is limiting fight design quite severely.
The second concern (again, in my opinion) is that Spirit Shell severely limits how much Blizzard can change the healing to absorbs ratio of Discipline in it's current state.

Also, isn't Power Word: Barrier the natural equivalent to the 3 minute healing CDs?

Mazor.

There are some things that are profoundly wrong with your post.
First off , your A. B. C. responses that mirror my statements are either completely misunderstood, like A ( the clue with shell is that it fulfills ALL three properties, while you just listed various abilities that share one! limiting feature of spirit shell ) , or just the work of a plain homogenisation activist ike B and C.

I already said that you cannot directly compare the cds and abilities of one class/specc to another , since they are too different in their nature.
Some classes might rely more on cds than others and have lower output when those are on cd, while others have weaker cd's but are capable of performing on a more constant level. If one could, as its apparently your wish, draw direct parallels inbetween every healer mechanic (or every specc/role in general) and cd then the game would be so boring you cant imagine.

As for your unique "Advantages"
A.: Just the other side of the coin that is the limitation of ramp up time.
B.: Spirit link -> 10%effective health increase, Aura Mastery = effective health increase, Smoke Bomb = effective health increase, Paladin mastery = A + B
C.: No other healer has the pure niche of being an absorption based specc. Apples and Peaches all over again. Some healers can top whole 25 man groups from 30% to 100 in a matter of seconds or are great on the move, disc cant do that. But It can prevent damage which is the general idea behind te specc.
Judging other healers on their ability to prevent damage is like judging a fish on its ability to climb a tree, just sayin.

Again, shell is fine , crit scaling is broken , T90 not having a target cap is broken. Rest is working as intended. Stop crying already.

[Rizendragon]

This is my hope: Atonement becomes a joke again, absorbs are brought into check, and Holy is buffed a bit to bring it in line with Disc.

[Deleted]

I don't get the Atonement hate. It is a perfectly fine filler spell for healing that is actually engaging and works to provide a secondary boost.

[Rizendragon]

I don't get the Atonement hate. It is a perfectly fine filler spell for healing that is actually engaging and works to provide a secondary boost.

It's mindless and as a "filler" spell makes up for more than 50% of the healing done? Atonement is one of if not the reason smart heals will be toned down in WoD...

[Biggles Worth]

Palm to my face.

[Rizendragon]

@Lazu

Funny how you state that I totally misunderstand your point by separating the 3 con points you listed for Spirit Shell (and compared it to other healers' abilities one by one), then you do the same for my 3 pro points for Spirit Shell .

The tone behind my point is my (personal) thought that Disc is just too specialized in it's current role to the point where it hurts the game, and Spirit Shell is part of that problem, it also happens to be the one we're discussing ATM .



You repeat twice the point about homogenization, I'd like to give a different perspective.

You take the homogenization to the extreme and claim the game will be very boring that way, and I agree. But I don't think we're getting there just yet.
The other extreme is huge differentiation of specs, and that means that you have each spec only able to do it's very specific role (or at least be really bad at everything else in comparison) and that causes severe balance issues. We've slightly seen this extreme with tank healers and raid healers, though that didn't fully go to the extreme zone, luckily.

I feel that Disc is treading slightly too far into the latter extreme on the whole, whereas Tranquility/Healing Tide Totem/Divine Hymn are slightly too far in the former one. The main difference is that the CDs are just that, CDs that needs to be balanced because of their extreme effect on fights, whereas Disc as a whole is just too unique in it's role (and Spirit Shell is only one detail we're discussing ATM).

Again, just my thoughts.

Mazor.

With Mythic being the only raid level that will really matter and Blizzard balancing around having 3-5 healers on any given encounter expect each class to have a certain niche again. They stated that they will be balancing around having at least one of every class, and when It comes to the healing classes I'm going to guess (assume?) that will mean they will design around those classes being in a healing role.

[Quickie]

You cannot measure how OP a healing spec/class is just off meters. There are aton of fights in SoO that will make other heal classes shine. I outheal our disc priest on my shaman on sha by about 15% ect. So a "blanket statement is false. I think alot of people are just overly critical because Disc brings alot of utility, and benefits while content is current that other healing classes do not. Spirit Shell is OP because you can use it when incoming damage is predictable, and it will negate the effect of other healing CD's from other classes. SS in itself isnt op, just the effect it has negates the other CD's of other classes. Dont be jealous. Smart heals are going to get retuned for sure - which will effect our spamming spells, however its not going to be that serious proly. Blue post just stated that they wanted to make healing mechanics in raids more interesting, so I am hopeful we shall see a wider range of what we should do. SS in itself is limited because of the cast time it takes for disc to actually get the cast off, and although most guides will say it should be used on CD, I disagree, a good priest will use it at intervals where its going to be used best, not just on CD (not saying to use at intervals if applicable) Disc is also stacking crit, over the other stats, for our aegis, we prolly keep a healthy amount of haste, but not enough to blanket the riad in high amounts of SS bubbles that are potent enough to make those absorbs viable on a 1min CD.

Every healer has a niche, OP ability that we all hate or /drool over. wether its tranq, DH, Revival, static healing totems, they all exist and are subjective as to what is best or more OP at the time. A huge reason why so much disc hate is that everyone thinks its op, when its really not. People said the same thing when ToT was current, and a MW monk was pretty much necessary for the revival and mass dispell on poisons. (Horridon) Disc has a niche, dont mess with it, it it pulls ahead too far then we need to make a few changes, like the SS cast time reduction, however dont mess with the playstyle.

[Basmothh]

@Quickie, your Disc Priest is trash. Either that or you're raiding in a 10-man.

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The main difference is that the CDs are just that, CDs that needs to be balanced because of their extreme effect on fights, whereas Disc as a whole is just too unique in it's role (and Spirit Shell is only one detail we're discussing ATM).

Again, just my thoughts.

Mazor.

Hey, someone finally gets it. Disc having such a highly specialized niche is why you don't see any Holy Priests. If your raid needs healing, the MW/Druid/Shaman/Holy Priest are effectively interchangeable as they bring roughly the same things to the raid. On the otherhand, Discs (and Paladins to a much lesser extent this tier) bring such unique utility that's also highly useful, which means that any raid interesting in min/maxing is effectively forced into bringing a Disc Priest to the raid.

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It's mindless and as a "filler" spell makes up for more than 50% of the healing done? Atonement is one of if not the reason smart heals will be toned down in WoD...

How does Atonement make up more than 50% of a Disc's total output in a 25-H? Seriously, find me one competent log that has such a healing breakdown.

[Deleted]

It's mindless and as a "filler" spell makes up for more than 50% of the healing done? Atonement is one of if not the reason smart heals will be toned down in WoD...

1) Atonement is multiple spells. To even slightly suggest that it comes from one ability is pretty incorrect.

2) It certainly doesn't make up more than 50% of healing done. For what it is worth, Healing Rain and Efflorescence post similar or greater contributions to healing done relative to Atonement. Those abilities are also fire and forget, unlike Penance / Smite / Holy Fire which require active input.

3) I'd strongly suggest that abilities such as HR and Efflo are why smart heals will be getting toned down. Atonement is nowhere near as problematic and at least requires repeated input to generate the healing.

4) Basmothh notes that it doesn't make up anywhere near 50% of the healing done in a 25-H environment. It also doesn't do anything close to that in 10-H environment either unless you vastly out gear the content, the fights have become trivial and you are using three healers. Under those conditions, it might get closer to those numbers but it still isn't going to breach 50% of a discipline priest's healing.

Regardless, it looks like the L90 talents are going to be neutered beyond a cap (which might still be in place) by receiving a 1.5 second cast time. It will be interesting to see what sort of information starts to tumble out specifically about discipline but I am betting on shields being far less prominent with disc being given middling throughput to compensate for more DPS.

[Deleted]

Regardless, it looks like the L90 talents are going to be neutered beyond a cap (which might still be in place) by receiving a 1.5 second cast time. It will be interesting to see what sort of information starts to tumble out specifically about discipline but I am betting on shields being far less prominent with disc being given middling throughput to compensate for more DPS.

That and prayer of mending also. That is sad because if it goes live, it's gonna affect holy (which is currently not in the best place) as well...

And BTW, thanks Isheria for the crit info.

[Chillzor]

Where are you guys getting those changes to lvl90 talents and mending from?
Not doubting them, im just eager to read more stuff : o

[Deleted]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...st-changes-WoD

[Chillzor]

Thank you, somehow managed to miss that : o

But one would think that those are shadowpriest only changes... right? Right? No? Okay : (
While i do understand the change for the T90 (would have approached them some other way though) im really not sure why PoM was hit too. Ah well. I guess we'll have to see the full picture before judging.

[Deleted]

If the L90 talents are given a cast time I can see choices veering towards the position independent or less reliant talents such as Halo and Cascade. A cast time Divine Star would certainly reduce its potency in any situation that commands a moderate amount of movement. I would propose a cast time on Halo and Cascade but Divine Star being instant cast and having a lower target cap than either Halo or Cascade. This would change Divine Star into the niche of the L90 talent that you use when movement is a priority, Halo for large amounts of predictable damage and Cascade as a general choice.

I'm not sure about the PoM change to 1.5 second cast time. That really sounds more like something aimed at shadow rather than the healing specs.

Then again, we have this on the front page:

Casters have slightly too many instant cast spells, especially healers that can keep themselves alive without ever using a spell with a cast time.

Hopefully this isn't a PvP change that comes at the detriment of PvE.

[Deleted]

Well, if they somehow intend to limit instants for every healer, those changes would kinda make sense.
But what about HoTs then ? If they stay instant where every other spell needs casting, it might change some things.

At this point, we just have to wait and see I guess.

[Sakamae]

Hopefully this isn't a PvP change that comes at the detriment of PvE.

Of course it is. Have you tried taking down a good healer in PvP lately? It's almost impossible with the state of instant casts.

[nobodysbaby]

I do not like the idea to reduce the number of instant cast spells because of PvP and interrupting. I love proccs with instants for example, with multiple instant casts, I like a high tempo game. For Holy there are not a high amount of spells that are instant that are useable in a 25 m raid environment. Renew is so weak in Sanc, so to use it feels pretty meh and PoM/CoH are both on CD. I don't feel Holy needs more limitations in the mobility area. Hopefully they remove the limitations to Chakra atleast.