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  1. #21
    I thought stating Seal of Righteousness/Exorcism damage would make it pretty obvious i'm not talking about single target...

  2. #22
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    Sorry , thought you were just talking about the buff you receive from judging while in those seals

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post
    From a ret pov I don't think multi strike or amplification will be much good for us we attack too slow and we are not really based around crit so those 2 stats will be diminished , however readiness i think will have some value because of how reliant we are on cds for our dps , however this can be said for any dps spec....
    I think MS will come out quite nicely if they implement it the way they plan, where by all of the stats are designed on a spec by spec basis, so they could allow for a scale based on Ret having all of its attacks proccing MS.

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Haste + Readiness = ?

    It feels like 2 stats that do the exact same thing, practically-speaking, for Prot/Ret. Unless I'm misinterpreting Readiness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Demsi View Post
    it is really dissapointing to see holy shield be brought back to a passive, i liked the old version better ><
    I'd rather see it proc off something, yeah. Not sure it would add a lot by just being another button to push.

    Although, which old version did you mean? The Cata minor CD, or the WOTLK rotation-slap?

    Quote Originally Posted by nzall View Post
    The light within is actually pretty interesting if different judgement bonuses stack. it brings back the vanilla and TBC act of seal weaving
    There was a Blue tweet specifically referring to the talent's entire point being to "bring back Seal twisting" or similar.

    Here: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/statu...47734173794304
    Last edited by Lovestar; 2014-02-23 at 01:31 AM.

  5. #25
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Haste + Readiness = ?

    It feels like 2 stats that do the exact same thing, practically-speaking, for Prot/Ret. Unless I'm misinterpreting Readiness.
    But they don't do the same thing , Readiness will work exactly like Evil Eye trinket does being our big cooldowns , while haste only lowers our GCD and the cooldown of CS ,Judge ,HoW and attack speed of course.

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  6. #26
    For Ret I can see Readiness being our most common tertiary stat to aim for. Now this could change considerably if they do away with Wings or GotAK, but right now our DPS still remains rather CD reliant so anything that makes those come up faster will get priority.

    Multistrike also sounds fun but really on huge pack fights I think it'll remain best to swap to SoR.

  7. #27
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post
    But they don't do the same thing , Readiness will work exactly like Evil Eye trinket does being our big cooldowns , while haste only lowers our GCD and the cooldown of CS ,Judge ,HoW and attack speed of course.
    Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

    Although, Readiness sounds kind of bland, unless the stat-to-percent conversion is huge with a sharp DR. The SoO trinx work because they're a big fat chunk chopped right off, similar to how Mastery works because there's a baseline chunk given to you to get it rolling.

    It can't be too generous or have too shallow a DR though, or it risks stacking until CDs aren't really CDs anymore. It seems like a really sketchy thing to balance; it's one of those "Useless until X% / Useless after X%" breakpoint kind of stats that would vary on a fight-by-fight basis.

    "Hang on, regemming to Readiness, summon me back". =/

  8. #28
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Ah, that makes a lot more sense.

    Although, Readiness sounds kind of bland, unless the stat-to-percent conversion is huge with a sharp DR. The SoO trinx work because they're a big fat chunk chopped right off, similar to how Mastery works because there's a baseline chunk given to you to get it rolling.

    It can't be too generous or have too shallow a DR though, or it risks stacking until CDs aren't really CDs anymore. It seems like a really sketchy thing to balance; it's one of those "Useless until X% / Useless after X%" breakpoint kind of stats that would vary on a fight-by-fight basis.

    "Hang on, regemming to Readiness, summon me back". =/
    In all honesty this is probably how readiness will be for us until we can get lots of it , so I'm predicting it will be near useless for the first raid tier , then get stronger as the tiers go on , and if there's a DR with it , we will simply hit X cap then move onto another stat , plain and simple. The problem is we don't yet know how easy this will be to attain as we don't know how much rating= 1% CDR or how much each piece of gear will likely have.

    Of course with reforging gone , we will obviously take what we can get , its not as if we will be able to stack a certain stat heavily anymore outside of gems/enchants like we do now.

    This makes me worried for ret because we need so much haste to make our rotation smooth , hell even at 40% haste with the thok trinket i still have the odd period of down time where I'm just auto attacking, I feel that we may be VERY VERY clunky early on unless they do some work on ret , Hell if we can't get enough haste it will devalue Sanc wrath , and we may end up specing DP to fill rotational gaps.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also don't forget they've said that not a lot of gear will have gem slots , they are sorta going to be a bonus like WF is now , it won't affect stat budget but they will be a lot less frequent than we have now , so this will also affect rets ability to hit the sweet spot of haste we want

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    All good points.

    I'm Prot, but likewise I'll miss the ability to go full-out Haste. The transition from low Haste levels to high Haste levels was an amazing and very pleasant gameplay change, and made me love my Prot Pally's style.

    Right now fights often seem (roughly) balanced around the frequency at which tanks can use CDs. With Readiness in play, I'm not sure what design direction they'll choose — assume X Readiness (you hurt if you lack it); ignore Readiness (you're OP if you stack it); don't try either way (Readiness is either junk since it doesn't bring you low enough to soak another fight mechanic, or overkill since you can't use it earlier anyway because it needs to be up in time).

    I know all of these things can be solved in some way or other, and I feel bad for being negative, but Readiness stands out as an impending headache stat. Everything else sounds cool / exciting.

    I mean, Holy Shield is back! :D
    Last edited by Lovestar; 2014-02-23 at 02:26 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post
    • Steadiness: Indestructible equip; NO durability loss
    It's called sturdiness not steadiness. Just thought I'd let you know so you could correct it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    I think many people use the word "scale" the same way the smurfs use "smurf".

  11. #31
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    I still think perhaps one tier of talents should be based off famous Paladin names


    (Uther,Arthas Liadrin). That's mostly for creative sake.



    I need to think more to get a better idea
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  12. #32
    In the warrior video from the Warlords of Draenor Korea event, Shattering Throw was nowhere to be found in the spellbook. I wonder if bubble (HoP, etc) will be among the 20% of class abilities removed for the Paladin. I can't see invulnerability remaining without a counter. It be sad to lose another iconic ability, but if a lot of CC is going to be removed (which I believe is Blizzard's intent), it might need to be cut for balance.
    Last edited by Tylanthia; 2014-02-23 at 02:48 AM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post
    Also don't forget they've said that not a lot of gear will have gem slots , they are sorta going to be a bonus like WF is now , it won't affect stat budget but they will be a lot less frequent than we have now , so this will also affect rets ability to hit the sweet spot of haste we want
    One thing that I read a month or so ago, was the even though there will not be a lot of gear with gem slots natively, gems will have a chance to show up on all gear that drops. As I remember it was something like gear will have a chance to drop as a "Warforged" version, Drop With a Socket and Drop with a tertiary stat. I'll need to do some digging around but I believe they said that it would be like a 10% chance to drop with any one of those three attributes at have like a 1% chance to drop as a Tertiary + Socketed + Warforged.

    Time will tell I guess, my main is a JC so I hope they don't just destroy 2/3 of my money making capability with no compensation. Metas are gone, Gem demand will be significantly lower. That leaves pets, mounts and jewelry.

  14. #34
    Stood in the Fire Zabannith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tylanthia View Post
    In the warrior video from the Warlords of Draenor Korea event, Shattering Throw was nowhere to be found in the spellbook. I wonder if bubble (HoP, etc) will be among the 20% of class abilities removed for the Paladin. I can't see invulnerability remaining without a counter. It be sad to lose another iconic ability, but if a lot of CC is going to be removed (which I believe is Blizzard's intent), it might need to be cut for balance.
    As a ret I would gladly give up bubble in exchange for better sustained dps , also they neutered a lot of warrior skills it was not just shattering throw
    My wife plays a warrior so we were interested in the video, and from the warrior forums they've made a list

    Arms Warriors - Abilities Removed

    - Cleave
    - Disarm
    - Spell Reflect
    - Shattering Throw
    - Throw
    - Hamstring (As an ability, however it is now a Passive in WoD)
    - Skull Banner (Recklessness in WoD uses the current live Skull Banner icon. So it is likely Skull Banner & Recklessness were combined.)
    - Overpower (Shows an empty icon slot where Overpower used to be. Could be a bug but the ability is not in the Spellbook.)
    - Sunder Armor
    - Whirlwind
    - Demoralizing Banner

    I would not be surprised if we receive the same treatment, they've been saying they want to reduce button bloat, Hell as ret i have 33 key binds with 2 of them being dps pot/lock rock , the rest are all utility ,dps cooldowns and main abilities

    New Ability: Renounce. When cast, Renounce permanently changes the Paladin into a Warrior.

  15. #35
    That's a lot of bloat removed. Sadly, I don't see them doing that for Retribution because we really don't have any bloat outside of support. Things I would like to see done are;

    Emancipation merged with Cleanse. We really don't need 2 different dispelling effects.
    Hand of Salvation merged with Freedom. In PvE you almost never need Freedom, and cleanse SHOULD be changed to remove 1 movement effect from anyone. So we won't need freedom in PvE at all. However we don't need Salvation in PvP.
    Blinding Light removed or altered. I've only used it to interrupt casts.
    Selfless healer to be changed to make it so each stack removes the need for 1 Holy Power from Word of Glory. Let Ret just use Word of Glory for everything.

    Otherwise I don't think ret bloat is TOO bad.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Zabannith View Post
    As a ret I would gladly give up bubble in exchange for better sustained dps , also they neutered a lot of warrior skills it was not just shattering throw [...]I would not be surprised if we receive the same treatment, they've been saying they want to reduce button bloat, Hell as ret i have 33 key binds with 2 of them being dps pot/lock rock , the rest are all utility ,dps cooldowns and main abilities
    I agree Ret has a lot of keybinds (although I never saw it as big issue--especially compared to say fury warriors). But for me, honestly, I chose to play a Ret paladin because of all the utility we bring. Doing damage is certainly fun, but I love the--however rare--moments when say a well timed HoP saves a group from a wipe. So I was sad when we lost auras and I'll be sad if we lose bubble (even if I understand). I guess I don't find DPS by itself as interesting as DPS plus support.

    As far as the core rotation goes, I'm not really sure what they could cut out other than maybe inquisition, guardian, and Hammer of the Righteous. Merging Emancipate into Cleanse (or just getting rid of it) would seem like another logical move. So that leaves removing support--much of which may not be needed in pvp if a lot of cc gets removed.

  17. #37
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    Otherwise I don't think ret bloat is TOO bad.
    Pally is one of the cleanest, most streamlined and efficient classes in the game at this point. I think cutting much more risks oversimplification.

  18. #38
    The Unstoppable Force Aeluron Lightsong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Pally is one of the cleanest, most streamlined and efficient classes in the game at this point. I think cutting much more risks oversimplification.
    Paladins might need an ability or two and adding more MIGHT give ability bloat.
    Blizzard do not destroy Jaina Proudmoore's character. Make her who she once was, not full of rage and vengeance.,If you are curious about me or about my writing aspirations, feel free to pst me. Paladin-Sorcerer at your service! My Youtube Channel https://www.youtube.com/user/Aeluron Big fanboy of Yrel now. Love her now

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Lovestar View Post
    Pally is one of the cleanest, most streamlined and efficient classes in the game at this point. I think cutting much more risks oversimplification.
    I agree, but I could see my listed changes being ok. As really it just clears the small bloat we have without oversimplifying the spec at all.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Lovestar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eon Drache View Post
    I agree, but I could see my listed changes being ok. As really it just clears the small bloat we have without oversimplifying the spec at all.
    Yeah, simple things like Emancipate will get no arguments from anyone I expect. But a gutting on the level of what Warrior is seeing would leave Pally skeletal; taking things like Bubble & HoP is just crossing lines that shouldn't be crossed IMO.

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