Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill

[Wilian]

No, but it usually does require at least a minor familiarity with them. I have handled a SA-16/Igla-1 in the past, but it isn't something I can say I could actually use anymore.

I could say that about few different weapons I've used back in military too but I'm fairly sure that given few days with them and dry training I could use stuff pretty effectively again.

Totally possible. I'm just tired of people crying that Ukraine shouldn't use military against "civilians", which the separatist are clearly not.

Oh me too. I don't have any particular pity for the separatists considering what's happening there.

[obdigore]

Totally possible. I'm just tired of people crying that Ukraine shouldn't use military against "civilians", which the separatist are clearly not.

The problem is that if the Ukrainian Government does go hard at the Separatists, many people think Putin will go 'got to protect mai Russians!' and move those troops doing 'exercises' in.

[Kellhound]

I could say that about few different weapons I've used back in military too but I'm fairly sure that given few days with them and dry training I could use stuff pretty effectively again.



Oh me too. I don't have any particular pity for the separatists considering what's happening there.

I'd say 15 minutes to relearn. It took 15 minutes to learn the first time, granted my only "target" was a 737 that was flying overhead. I still remember all my small arms though (M1911, M14, M16, M2), and most Russian stuff is designed for an idiot to use....

[belfpala]

The problem is that if the Ukrainian Government does go hard at the Separatists, many people think Putin will go 'got to protect mai Russians!' and move those troops doing 'exercises' in.

Realpolitik in its purest form.

Sorry, Ukraine, that you have to be the proving ground.

[BreathTaker]

16700+ posts and people here a still too stupid to understand what's happening.
How can you still argue on anything here, i don't know.


To me it's obvious the UA's days are running out, i only wonder if the junta will survive and hide or US agents kill them so they cannot tell the world who's really behind it all, when they're captured.
To me it's obvious the initial plan about UA failed and the only purpose they currently have is to force Russia to participate directly, to throw shit at us ever after, which hopefully we'll manage to evade.
To me it's not obvious ho many cazualties will there be among the 'separatists' - which is not a bad word since there's no 'UA country at all as of now'.
To me it's obvious you people will not admit you've been shitting your own pants all this time defending the insideous operation of worldwide aggressor.

Sux to live at times when people are so crazy so that you know you should not even try to talk, you should shoot first.

[malgin]

Yanukovich should have used army in Kiev in 1st place. The best thing he did during his presidency was staying alive.

[Elim Garak]

It should be obvious to anyone that the only way to save Ukraine now is for junta to submit to so called separatists. All the other ways will start a civil war and disintegration of Ukraine.

[obdigore]

It should be obvious to anyone that the only way to save Ukraine now is for junta to submit to so called separatists. All the other ways will start a civil war and disintegration of Ukraine.

So a small percentage of the population is rebelling against the government, even when the areas they are rebelling in aren't majority rebels, and you think the government should just 'give up' because if they do anything its the start of a civil war?

I'd suggest that a group of people rebelling against a government militarily and wanting to join another nation would be the start of the civil war.

[bison91]

Do you see guys what ur american politician have done now? instead of doing democratic way to throw yanucovich out of his seat and just place ur own guy....you made a civil war with the help of money...and now Bandera soldiers are going to fight against crimea and other russian ppl...what have you done...spilling blood? then spil ur own blood instead...ruining countries coz u wanted to? you are no batter then stalin or hitler

[mmokri]

Obdigore ^^^ John Kerry party line. http://m.washingtonpost.com/external...raine-2004.jpg

[malgin]

So a small percentage of the population is rebelling against the government, even when the areas they are rebelling in aren't majority rebels, and you think the government should just 'give up' because if they do anything its the start of a civil war?

I'd suggest that a group of people rebelling against a government militarily and wanting to join another nation would be the start of the civil war.

"Goverment"? This goverment took in position with armed force. I guess 15-20k Ukranian army could do the trick with protestors armed with sticks and guns mostly.

Meantime IMF gives first part of credit and Russia is official adversary of NATO.

[Deleted]

I just hope Ukrainian government starts making adequate moves and soon. In Russia or America those separatists wouldn't have lasted a week, so i see no reason for Ukrainian government to hold back their forces. Those people are just terrorists - taking hostages, robbing people, torturing and murdering people. And around 20% max of those separatists are there for the idea, the rest are just russian agents and/or soldiers and mercenaries, so i have no pity for those after what they did.

[obdigore]

"Goverment"? This goverment took in position with armed force. I guess 15-20k Ukranian army could do the trick with protestors armed with sticks and guns mostly.

Meantime IMF gives first part of credit and Russia is official adversary of NATO.

No, the previous President fled the country after his party agreed to hold new elections for the post of president. The Government itself didn't take power through armed force, and as far as I can tell, they've tried to institute no policies but want to wait for the elections, and certain people are trying to take advantage of that stance.

- - - Updated - - -

I just hope Ukrainian government starts making adequate moves and soon. In Russia or America those separatists wouldn't have lasted a week, so i see no reason for Ukrainian government to hold back their forces. Those people are just terrorists - taking hostages, robbing people, torturing and murdering people. And around 20% max of those separatists are there for the idea, the rest are just russian agents and/or soldiers and mercenaries, so i have no pity for those after what they did.

The problem is that this is an interim government. They don't want to do anything until the official elections are held on the 25th.

- - - Updated - - -

Obdigore ^^^ John Kerry party line. http://m.washingtonpost.com/external...raine-2004.jpg

All polls indicate there isn't anywhere in Ukraine that more than 30% or so want to leave the Ukraine, regardless of if they join Russia or become independent.

Not sure what 'John Kerry Party Line' means, but w/e.

[Elim Garak]

So a small percentage of the population is rebelling against the government, even when the areas they are rebelling in aren't majority rebels, and you think the government should just 'give up' because if they do anything its the start of a civil war?

It's always a small percentage. You think revolutions are performed by majority of population? And Civil Wars too? You think the Civil War in Syria is carried out by majority of population? Or is it small percentages on both sides?

What the fuck is wrong with you people? How can you be so clueless?

Maidan was a small percentage of population, even compared to Kiev's population. You were saying?

Yes, there will be Civil War if criminals in Kiev continue to push instead of submitting to the demands on people in the east.

I'd suggest that a group of people rebelling against a government militarily and wanting to join another nation would be the start of the civil war.

They want decentralization, i.e. for Ukraine to become a Federation. There's nothing BAD in that. They don't want to exactly join other nation. They want their rights and freedoms to be in their own hands via local government. Like say in USA. There's a Federal Government and there are state governments. This is what they want. that can't be a BAD thing can it?

- - - Updated - - -

No, the previous President fled the country after his party agreed to hold new elections for the post of president.

No, the president fled because there was an assassination attempt on his life.

[mmokri]

All polls indicate there isn't anywhere in Ukraine that more than 30% or so want to leave the Ukraine, regardless of if they join Russia or become independent.

Not sure what 'John Kerry Party Line' means, but w/e.

Image means that gov is couped & replaced by orange electorate. John Kerry party line is ignoring fact above.

[Elim Garak]

The problem is that this is an interim government. They don't want to do anything until the official elections are held on the 25th.

There can't be official elections in this state of a country.

[Deleted]

People got so pissed off and tired of all the nasty stuff going on in Ukraine so they finally revolted and in the end Yanukovosch fled the country. Fled where? To Russia of course, the only place where criminals are welcome.
Just look at Yanokovich's palace, he stole billions of $$$, too bad he managed to fled, he deserved other fate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ne-to-see.html
And if he didnt flee Putler wouldnt be able to write speeches for him now, but either way no one believes in this "yanukovich is the ligitimate president" fairy tails putler keeps telling us.

[obdigore]

It's always a small percentage. You think revolutions are performed by majority of population? And Civil Wars too? You think the Civil War in Syria is carried out by majority of population? Or is it small percentages on both sides?

What the fuck is wrong with you people? How can you be so clueless?

Yup everyone but you is clueless, right?

Maidan was a small percentage of population, even compared to Kiev's population. You were saying?

Yes, there will be Civil War if criminals in Kiev continue to push instead of submitting to the demands on people in the east.

Why are the people in Kiev Criminals? What laws have they broken? The only thing you could get them on is not having enough votes for no confidence in a president that fled the country.

They want decentralization, i.e. for Ukraine to become a Federation. There's nothing BAD in that. They don't want to exactly join other nation. They want their rights and freedoms to be in their own hands via local government. Like say in USA. There's a Federal Government and there are state governments. This is what they want. that can't be a BAD thing can it?

That's what some of them want. Others want to join Russia, and the vast majority want to continue on with their lives.

And yes, smaller governments can be just as horrible and exploitive as state governments. Wanting localized government is pretty useless unless you have specific aims to achieve that you feel a local government can do better.

Even so, they should elect people to represent them in the elections in less then a month away, if they honestly wish for real changes to their government. Grabbing guns and accepting support from Russia to make the Ukraine a better place isn't going to work. It's going to get them annexed by Russia.

[Thunderball]

All polls indicate there isn't anywhere in Ukraine that more than 30% or so want to leave the Ukraine, regardless of if they join Russia or become independent.

Yeah, and these people dont want that either. They just want more power for regional government (to ensure their interests are protected, as you see they are quite different from the western Ukraine), russian as a second national language (which is pretty obvious aswell, most of the people in Ukraine speak russian) and get neonazis to jail. That's actually the same thing that Crimean government wanted right away, before the situation escalated and Russia came into play. They had their own government that was able to do things the way they wanted. In the southeast they just have a harder time because the regional authorities are controlled from Kiev.

[obdigore]

There can't be official elections in this state of a country.

Sure there can. In fact, if there are international observers, the official elections in the whole of the Ukraine will be much more legitimate then what happened in Crimea.