Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill

[Deleted]

There can't be official elections in this state of a country.

Oh really? And who decides that? There were several revolutions in Russia earlier and governments were coming to power using force, but no other country did what Russia does now in such circumstances. Yeah, putting a knife in Ukraine's back and attacking it just when it needed help most. That's the spirit.

[Thunderball]

Others want to join Russia, and the vast majority want to continue on with their lives.

So? The radicals always come into play when you want to solve everything with force. The fact that some people want to join Russia doesnt mean that's what everyone wants and it doesnt mean their interest can be ignored altogether. That's why they want to hold a referendum, to see what do people actually want. But since Kiev doesnt want any talks like that the only way to do it is to have your own authority, i.e. to declare independency.

[Elim Garak]

Yup everyone but you is clueless, right?

Is it some kind of "did too" response? Do you have anything against what I said about "small percentages"? Apparently, no. Were you under impression that I'm stupid and you can get away with "but its a small percentage of people" argument?

Everyone but you is stupid, right?

Why are the people in Kiev Criminals? What laws have they broken? The only thing you could get them on is not having enough votes for no confidence in a president that fled the country.

Constitution, obviously. They staged a coup.

That's what some of them want. Others want to join Russia, and the vast majority want to continue on with their lives.

Yeah, people are different, more news at 11.

And yes, smaller governments can be just as horrible and exploitive as state governments. Wanting localized government is pretty useless unless you have specific aims to achieve that you feel a local government can do better.

They have specific aims, if you were interested you would've known them - I'm not going to lend a hand here, no.

Even so, they should elect people to represent them in the elections in less then a month away, if they honestly wish for real changes to their government. Grabbing guns and accepting support from Russia to make the Ukraine a better place isn't going to work. It's going to get them annexed by Russia.

Tell that to people in the Kiev, because that is what they did. And now they hold "elections". Do you expect people to trust them? Would YOU trust them?

[Thunderball]

Oh really? And who decides that? There were several revolutions in Russia earlier and governments were coming to power using force, but no other country did what Russia does now in such circumstances. Yeah, putting a knife in Ukraine's back and attacking it just when it needed help most. That's the spirit.

The Ukrainian constitution has it pretty clear. If you want to use army on the territory of Ukraine you have to declare a state of emergency. If you have a state of emergency you cant have elections/referendums.

[malgin]

People got so pissed off and tired of all the nasty stuff going on in Ukraine so they finally revolted and in the end Yanukovosch fled the country. Fled where? To Russia of course, the only place where criminals are welcome.
Just look at Yanokovich's palace, he stole billions of $$$, too bad he managed to fled, he deserved other fate.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ne-to-see.html
And if he didnt flee Putler wouldnt be able to write speeches for him now, but either way no one believes in this "yanukovich is the ligitimate president" fairy tails putler keeps telling us.

And? Why people in Slavyansk has no same rights? IMF credits are the same robbery for the country.

Noone is feel pity for Yanukovich, but Ukraine wants to swap it for another "Yanukovich" that is the problem.

Naval, if Putin is Hitler shouldn't Bandera Right sector,national guard and the new goverment obey him?

[Deleted]

Majority of Ukrainian people trust current temporal government and elections will be held as planned, unless Russia stages more terracts or invades Ukraine completely. If it was for me to decide i would gladly give those separatists regions to Russia right away, people in Crimea are starting to realise now how sucky it is to be living in Russia and same would have happened to those other separatists. But problem is if it happens Russia will want more and more, if it's not stopped now other countries will be invaded by putler's forces in future.

[Thunderball]

Oh really? And who decides that? There were several revolutions in Russia earlier and governments were coming to power using force, but no other country did what Russia does now in such circumstances. Yeah, putting a knife in Ukraine's back and attacking it just when it needed help most. That's the spirit.

Except the Russia has been the only one helping, so yeah, go figure.

- - - Updated - - -

Majority of Ukrainian people trust current temporal government and elections will be held as planned, unless Russia stages more terracts or invades Ukraine completely. If it was for me to decide i would gladly give those separatists regions to Russia right away, people in Crimea are starting to realise now how sucky it is to be living in Russia and same would have happened to those other separatists. But problem is if it happens Russia will want more and more, if it's not stopped now other countries will be invaded by putler's forces in future.

You are a believer, obviously. You cant do much to a believer, because you guys dont listen to facts.

[Elim Garak]

Sure there can. In fact, if there are international observers, the official elections in the whole of the Ukraine will be much more legitimate then what happened in Crimea.

Hahaha, that's a funny one. There were international observers in Crimea. Plus there were no martial law in effect.

You do know that you can't hold elections during martial law?

[Deleted]

And? Why people in Slavyansk has no same rights? IMF credits are the same robbery for the country.

Noone is feel pity for Yanukovich, but Ukraine wants to swap it for another "Yanukovich" that is the problem.

Naval, if Putin is Hitler shouldn't Bandera Right sector,national guard and the new goverment obey him?

People in Slavyansk are led by Russian troops, that's why. Internal revolution is one thing and separatist forces led by russian forces is totally different.
Answering your second question - of course they shouldn't, why would they? Right sector or new government didnt do anything to call them nazis even though Russian TV channels and news agencies try to show it all in such light.

- - - Updated - - -

Hahaha, that's a funny one. There were international observers in Crimea. Plus there were no martial law in effect.

You do know that you can't hold elections during martial law?

There wasnt any legit ones, just some pro-putler's dolls pretending to be those. And ye, elections in Crimea were awesome, guys with machine guns standing nearby just to make sure everyone makes the right choice hehe.

[Deleted]

8 years in the EU told me so. McCain, Biden and Ashton are playing the naive Ukrainian people like a fiddle.

Been living for 14 years in the EU, I wouldn't trade it for anything else in the world.
Except maybe a private mediterranean Island. (But that would still be in the EU)

[mmokri]

Too bad greece peasants would disagree.

[Deleted]

Too bad russian peasants would disagree even more, they would gladly want to have what greece peasants have, at least. But they dont and wont while putler's government is in charge in Russia.

Its kinda funny how lots of Russian emigrants are working/living in EU and USA and pretty much all over the world - and yet russian goverment tries to make people believe that life sucks in EU and USA. The irony.

[obdigore]

Hahaha, that's a funny one. There were international observers in Crimea. Plus there were no martial law in effect.

You do know that you can't hold elections during martial law?

There wasn't any kind of official international observers, OCSE refused because they suggested that the local Crimean politicians didn't have the authority to have such a referendum (and they didn't under Ukranian law). Of course that is ignoring the fact that the referendum was 'Join Russia' or 'Do what the politicians put in place by Russian Gunment want, and Join Russia'.

The 'international observers' in Crimea were express invited by the Kremlin, numerous of who used to or currently lead neo-Nazi parties in their country, like Luc Michael (French neo-Nazi) and Enrique Ravello (Spanish neo-Nazi).

But yes, when you annex part of a country, then hold an illegal referendum at gunpoint, giving the only questions to be 'do you want to join us' and 'do you want to join us', and then only allow (OCSE ended up trying to send observers, but they were turned away under fire) hand picked people who are willing to do say whatever the fuck you want, that's totally a fair and free election, right?

Sadly, the natives to Crimea (read Tatars) are going to be screwed over once more by the glorious, friendly Russians, and maybe this time Russia can manage to wipe them all out so the next vote is 100% pro-Russian after you move in more 'good Russian citizens', right?

Now, go call the KGB and ask them how to respond to this post so you can keep pulling the Russian line about how the poor Russians are so hated by the everyone else in the world and you are just victims while you invade other countries and shit on entire populations.

[malgin]

People in Slavyansk are led by Russian troops, that's why. Internal revolution is one thing and separatist forces led by russian forces is totally different.
Answering your second question - of course they shouldn't, why would they? Right sector or new government didnt do anything to call them nazis even though Russian TV channels and news agencies try to show it all in such light.

Exept them worship Bandera (a war criminal), SS division, ect.

I could say that Ukranian army is led by US(academi and cia agents).

Too bad russian peasants would disagree even more, they would gladly want to have what greece peasants have, at least. But they dont and wont while putler's government is in charge in Russia.

Its kinda funny how lots of Russian emigrants are working/living in EU and USA and pretty much all over the world - and yet russian goverment tries to make people believe that life sucks in EU and USA. The irony.

You can live pretty much everywhere if u have money. So even in Eu/US it sometimes sucks.

[mmokri]

Obdigore ^^^ Legal referendum = EU referendum. Where is queue [to play ball with EU]?

[obdigore]

Obdigore ^^^ Legal referendum = EU referendum. Where is queue [to play ball with EU]?

Learn to use the quote button.

No, a 'legal referendum' under Ukrainian law would require it to be applied to all Ukraine, not just Crimea. Of course, it would help if there weren't Russian Gunmen and International Election Observatory Bodies weren't turned away when they tried to observe.

But that's just icing on the cake of such a horseshit referendum anyway.

[mmokri]

I already imagine playing ball with US. Closing eyes on NSA + buying $180mn planes.

[malgin]

Learn to use the quote button.

No, a 'legal referendum' under Ukrainian law would require it to be applied to all Ukraine, not just Crimea. Of course, it would help if there weren't Russian Gunmen and International Election Observatory Bodies weren't turned away when they tried to observe.

But that's just icing on the cake of such a horseshit referendum anyway.

That's why it called Autonomous republic of Crimea. It has all rights to do so. It performed referendum long ago but Kiev didn't give a shit about it. There wasn't any treat to be shot in Crimea if u didn't want to vote. Simple as it is - people was dreamed of it for 23 years.

Google "Yatsenuk and crimean tatars". He said they are no better than russians, no better than comon terrorists and thats why they have to be punished.

[obdigore]

That's why it called Autonomous republic of Crimea. It has all rights to do so. It performed referendum long ago but Kiev didn't give a shit about it. There wasn't any treat to be shot in Crimea if u didn't want to vote. Simple as it is - people was dreamed of it for 23 years.

Google "Yatsenuk and crimean tatars". He said they are no better than russians, no better than comon terrorists and thats why they have to be punished.

That isn't what the Ukrainian Constitution says, or what was approved when Crimea joined the Ukraine. But ignoring that is easy, right?

[Cybran]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...t-9314374.html

Ukrainian government forces have launched an anti-terror operation to retake the rebel stronghold of Slavyansk, with two troops reported dead after separatists used grenade launchers against military helicopters surrounding the city.

Gunfire and blasts were heard early this morning around the eastern city in Ukraine that has become the focus of an armed pro-Russian insurgency, whose leaders claimed that government troops had began a military assault in an attempt to retake control.

Ukrainian officials said Slavuyansk was "tightly surrounded" and called on separatist leaders to release hostages and surrender.

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said the offensive was answered with heavy artillery, with the rebels using grenade and portable anti-aircraft missile launchers to bring down planes.

"As a result of the shooting, two troops from the Ukrainian army were killed," Ukraine's Interior Ministry said in a statement.

Today, Russian President Vladimir Putin's spokesperson accused Kiev of launching a "punitive operation" in south-east Ukraine, destroying the final hope of keeping alive the Geneva agreement designed to defuse the crisis, Russian news agencies reported.

Vyacheslav Ponomarev, the insurgency-appointed mayor of Slavyansk, said self-defence forces had shot down two helicopters, killing one pilot and capturing the other. Details of these claims could not be independently verified.

Describing the operation as "the active phase of the anti-terrorist operation", Mr Avakov said its goals were simple - "free the hostages, lay down their arms and free administrative buildings, and restore the normal functioning of the town's administration".

Shit is about to hit the fan.