This game is fun!

[May90]

No, but I played ME. It was so long ago (I really need to play it again). [/FONT]

Hmm... ME is a little different. Sidequests there are generally short and generic - it is the main story and the companions' quests that shine (at least, in ME2 and ME3). KotoR, in contrary, had all the quest on the same high level. I don't recall a single generic quest in which you just need to collect something or kill something - there were many quests the end result of which was killing some beast or droid, but they were always a lot more than that, with a backstory that actually fits into the game as a whole and into a main story.

And, well, KotoR is by far not the first such game. Baldur's Gate 1 had more "quest-like" quests than SWTOR. So, we can say that such approach to questing as in SWTOR would be fine, say, in 1997 or so... But definitely not in 2011.

I played KOTOR. Hated it.

You don't have to like it. But you have to admit that quests there were 100 times better than SWTOR's "kill 20 dudes", "kill 20 more dudes", "kill 5 kilodudes", "kill 1 megadude", "drop megadude's toilet paper into mission dropbox".

[Tiev]

I think we might have a different idea of "gameplay" because playing the Jedi Knight was the best gameplay experience I had in an MMO to date. Including every WoW class, GW2, and others in between.

Leaping, tossing sabers, force pushing people was just SO MUCH FUN.

What killed the game to me, being an end-game raider that I am with very little desire to level was the fact that there was not much end-game when it first launched. So all my friends and I reached max, did an operation and went back to WoW never to look back again.

I kept playing because the storylines were so much fun. But I cannot be arsed to level anymore than I already did in WoW so if I have to repeat a levelling content even for 30 minutes I get bored into oblivion.

If they made it so that you *ONLY* needed to do class quests in order to level up, I'd probably have every class in the game at max :P And then go back to WoW since my friends quit playing.

[May90]

I think we might have a different idea of "gameplay" because playing the Jedi Knight was the best gameplay experience I had in an MMO to date. Including every WoW class, GW2, and others in between.

Leaping, tossing sabers, force pushing people was just SO MUCH FUN.

What killed the game to me, being an end-game raider that I am with very little desire to level was the fact that there was not much end-game when it first launched. So all my friends and I reached max, did an operation and went back to WoW never to look back again.

I kept playing because the storylines were so much fun. But I cannot be arsed to level anymore than I already did in WoW so if I have to repeat a levelling content even for 30 minutes I get bored into oblivion.

If they made it so that you *ONLY* needed to do class quests in order to level up, I'd probably have every class in the game at max :P And then go back to WoW since my friends quit playing.

I see. You have different comparison. You compare this game to other MMOs, and among MMOs it may be one of the best games, indeed.

I, however, compare this game to the games I consider good, and not a single MMO fits my criteria, maybe Ultima Online can be considered "not very bad", but that's it. I mostly compare this game to KotoR series since I had been waiting for KotoR 3 since 2006, and SWTOR was that KotoR 3. Unfortunately, in comparison to the two predecessors, this game really blows in pretty much every regard. The only thing that I really loved a lot was Galactic Starfighter - that was a lot of fun. Yes, I know it is a game of different genre. But still... Even a very generic MMO should be able to offer something better than "kill 30 droids", right? Especially considering how much they've spent developing this game - on this kind of money they could have made KotoR 3, KotoR 4 and KotoR 5 combined and once more support their reputation as the best RPG maker in history. Instead, they've made a copy of WoW with Star Wars skins... Such a wasted potential!

I can certainly say that SWTOR is the only Bioware game ever that I do not even think touching/replaying ever again. Even Neverwinter Nights 1 OC may see some walkthrough from me again in a few years. But not this game. I must admit, among the modern MMOs I've tried it has been the best or, should I say, the least bad. But still...

[Tiev]

You're setting yourself for disappointment then. MMOs will be MMOs. Can't expect a single player RPG level of story / quest out of an MMO. Could it be done? Maybe. Would it be successful? Who knows. It's never been done. So it wasn't going to be anything that EA would invest into.

I think you held an unreasonable expectation towards an MMORPG and it then crashed and burned on you.

I also agree that Kotor was awesome. Played the heck out of that. But it was pretty obvious that SwTor wasn't going to be a Kotor =P

[May90]

I also agree that Kotor was awesome. Played the heck out of that. But it was pretty obvious that SwTor wasn't going to be a Kotor =P

They swore so much that SWTOR was going to offer an awesome experience for both MMO players and single players... They said so often that SWTOR was not going to disappoint KotoR fans... And they lied.

[Lovestar]

They swore so much that SWTOR was going to offer an awesome experience for both MMO players and single players... They said so often that SWTOR was not going to disappoint KotoR fans... And they lied.

To be fair, SWTOR disappointed every segment of player on the entire spectrum. It's not like any particular group got it worst. :p

The game is doing a lot better now partially because all those overblown expectations have faded away, and now people coming to the game just see it as a fluffy little Star Wars MMO without the hype. In that context, it's enjoyable.

[tru]

SWTOR/GW2 had a great questing experiences and personal storyline... doesnt mean they were a good game esp after you hit max level.

[Deleted]

did they change anything regarding lvling? When I played the game(release) the levling was the worst I have ever seen in a game. Repetetive and incredibly boring quests, planets way to big in comparison to player size, and overall it seemed dull. That every NPC and your char talked and the decision making when deciding quests was nice. I quit the game after Hoth I believe, as it was to boring for me back then.
Even FF XIV ARR didnt feel that grindy to me.

Not bashing, just stating my opinion, and interest if smth changed

[Fhi]

did they change anything regarding lvling? When I played the game(release) the levling was the worst I have ever seen in a game. Repetetive and incredibly boring quests, planets way to big in comparison to player size, and overall it seemed dull. That every NPC and your char talked and the decision making when deciding quests was nice. I quit the game after Hoth I believe, as it was to boring for me back then.
Even FF XIV ARR didnt feel that grindy to me.

Not bashing, just stating my opinion, and interest if smth changed

Aside from easier XP, nope. You're better off playing another game.

[Lovestar]

It's a bit much to call SWTOR the worst leveling you've ever seen in a game — it's actually very smooth and generous and the cinematic quality is extremely appealing. The combat system isn't sophisticated, but it's enjoyable and polished enough.

You can do much, much worse than SWTOR. I mean like, it's not even anywhere close to how bad the majority of 2000s-era MMOs were, and many continue to be.

There's legit complaints about how clunky its overall design, engine, system, etc. are but these are high-level griping from grognard gamers that have exacting standards. For the average person that just wants to go WHOWWW STARWARS WHEE FLASHING LIGHTS (like me) it's much better than this thread has diverged into making it sound.

If you're looking for the Second Coming of Gaming, then, no, not here. But then, you should probably not be looking for that inside MMOs to begin with.

[May90]

It's a bit much to call SWTOR the worst leveling you've ever seen in a game — it's actually very smooth and generous and the cinematic quality is extremely appealing. The combat system isn't sophisticated, but it's enjoyable and polished enough.

I actually support Vogelweide here. Cinematics are good and well, but most of the time you are actually in the zones doing quest - and they are extremely dull, repetitive and slow paced. Just one word: Balmorra. I will remember that snoozefest long after my ashes have been eaten by worms...

There's legit complaints about how clunky its overall design, engine, system, etc. are but these are high-level griping from grognard gamers that have exacting standards. For the average person that just wants to go WHOWWW STARWARS WHEE FLASHING LIGHTS (like me) it's much better than this thread has diverged into making it sound.

That's the thing: the game doesn't feel like Star Wars! It feels like WoW with Star Wars skins, but it doesn't feel like Star Wars. Star Wars is like Jedi Outcast: force pulls and pushes, dodging, jumping, taunting, mind tricking... It is not two clowns with ugly models bashing each other with colored baseball bats like idiots for 2 minutes. It is "sneak into Droid factory, disrupt it from the side terminal without having been seen, for which you will have to force grip the guards and to mind trick the controller". It is not "kill 20 bantas and give their poos as a quest reward".
Even when I played WoW, with its horrendous leveling and cartoonish graphics, I felt as if I was really there, in that fantastic world. When I played SWTOR, I felt as if I was on some very boring lecture that I don't really bother listening to, but still have to sit through those 90 minutes and try to not fall asleep lest I miss the regular test at the end of the lecture. Only starting planets felt somewhat real (maybe just because playing a new character is always refreshing), but everything beyond the start of the faction planets was one looooooooooooong and monotonous chore, and the only thing that kept me going was hope to acquire cool companions in the end and to find out how the events turn out... which usually also disappointed me in the end.

[Lovestar]

Yeah I get that you're very disappointed with the game and I've acknowledged most of your complaints as legit at the objective, high-concept level. I stand by my assertion that a lot of the negativity here is being grossly exaggerated.

SWTOR's flaws taken against itself and its BioWare Star Wars legacy and even other Star Wars games that did the combat better are legit. Setting aside that SWTOR could have been a lot more than it is (valid) it's still significantly better than, or at least on par with, most other MMO offerings we've had and continue to get.

You can interpret that as a negative commentary on the state of MMO design, but that's neither here nor there. Most people who try SWTOR have a lot of fun with it. I'm not sure any survey would rank it as the best game anyone's ever played (or close), but I'm willing to hazard that most of the people would consider it "fun".

Because it is. I have a sick affection for the MMO genre despite its generally lackluster offerings, and SWTOR is definitely one of the more solid efforts available.

[May90]

I do not exaggerate anything: I really found the gameplay so boring that I actually often yawned. Balmorra was the worst of all, I barely made it through, but other planets were not perfect either. Leveling in all MMOs I've tried was very boring, so I eventually gave up on MMOs and returned to single player games. But in SWTOR it was even more boring than anywhere else. It is, in addition to having nearly all the quests grindy, also very slow paced, has an incredibly uninspired music (it was music that made me survive monotony sometimes in WoW and GW2, but here it is so dull and monotonous that it only made me want to sleep more), quite terrible voice acting (even Jennifer Hale, it seems, were bored with her character and didn't even try to sound believable), awfully terrible profession system (really, it was just epic bad, I have never seen such useless professions in any game before) - and I don't even mention insane amount of bugs near the launch, something that shouldn't be in a game for $200m, terrible performance (games that look 5 times better, like GW2, perform better than this), AWFUL F2P restrictions... People there complain about the lack of the endgame, but I don't even care about that - the game is already so repetitive and uninspired that it is hard to make it any worse. And yet they find ways to do so: f!@king Cartel market popping out every time I dare to blink, expansion on which they have worked for so long and which features the same boring quests and dailies...

Seriously. I don't like the MMO genre, so my opinion is biased. I do not think that SWTOR is the worst MMO at the moment (it is, actually, one of the best, I would say). But its quality is just terrible, absolutely terrible. The game feels so uninspired, it must have been developed solely for raw profit. Nearly everything is blindfoldly copy-pasted from WoW, and yet they managed to copy-past it badly, to make that already boring leveling system even more boring and monotonous, remove all the humor and the soul Blizzard has put into their game and not offer anything for a change.

The best way I can describe the feeling of this game in comparison to other games is this: some generic tasteless drink in Thailand named "tai-cola" in comparison to Coca-Cola". "Tai-cola" is in a used plastic bottle of uniform size. It is perfectly black, it has no taste, its coverage having dull colors of 30-s or something. In other words, it is crap. It is a copy of the genuine drink, but a very poor copy at that. It does not feel bad, it does not feel enraging. It does not feel at all, like it doesn't really exist. You drink it without emotion, without taste, without feeling. And, after drinking it, you have this weird sensation that something is just off, something is not right, something that should not exist exists. Something unnatural and uninspired. Something created to earn easy money and to be forgotten 5 years later.

[Stormcall]

But you have to admit that quests there were 100 times better than SWTOR's "kill 20 dudes", "kill 20 more dudes", "kill 5 kilodudes", "kill 1 megadude", "drop megadude's toilet paper into mission dropbox".

I like simple straightforward questing. "Kill these dudes" is about as straightforward as it gets.

[Warlord Booty]

I really don't see any of that when I play WoW. The only time i really felt immersed was with the Wrathgate but that was mostly due to the awesome cinematic that completely punked off the Alliance. I don't know if it was the cinematic itself, or what, but questing in WoW is identical to any other MMO, what I like about SWTOR is those cut scenes. I love how sweet and innocent my character can be when talking to the Grand Moff or Darth Whogivesadamn but then a ruthless bitch to everyone else. I find the fluff of the WoW quests more annoying than anything (go tell Johnny Awesome on his idiot sparkle mount to go kill some wolves). One of my latest toons to hit 90, got his 250 quests completed achievement on day 10 or something of doing Isle of Epics dailies.

I pretty much hate questing in general, I just want to kill shit.