why not give us a pitlord pet instead of perma doomguard/infernal?

[squid]

Wrathguards, Observers, and Shivarra may be more intelligent than the original demons they replace, but to say a wrathguard is anywhere near the power level of a Pitlord is just ridiculous. Wrathguards may be Eredar, but your pet is not the same as Jaraxxus or Kil'jaeden anymore than a gecko is a tyrannosaurus though they are both lizards.

To say nothing of size and practicality in a game like wow.

[Wildmoon]

Higher ranked demons like Nathrezims,Pit Lords,Eredar Lords are simply too much for warlocks to handle lore wise. They are more powerful than PC warlocks in some cases.

[Skeppio]

Here's one reason:

[Fullmetal89]

I would love to see a quest similar to the green fire quest, except you learn how to tame a really high level demon like a Pit Lord. It would only really be for aesthetic purposes but it could replace your doomguard or infernal. I know it will never happen, but it would be a pretty cool.

[Kuja]

Because they would be the size of an inn. Even some hunter pet sizes were nerfed because they were too big, even though they weren't big at all.

[Kaleredar]

Pitlord sizes would be waaaay too prohibitive. Consider they're tall, long, AND have wings and would most likely be blanketing the entire field in a team fight.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

Wrathguards, Observers, and Shivarra may be more intelligent than the original demons they replace, but to say a wrathguard is anywhere near the power level of a Pitlord is just ridiculous. Wrathguards may be Eredar, but your pet is not the same as Jaraxxus or Kil'jaeden anymore than a gecko is a tyrannosaurus though they are both lizards.

To say nothing of size and practicality in a game like wow.

You don't get it. Clearly. Before Sargeras offered the Eredar from Argus power, all Eredar were skilled in magic, all Eredar are still skilled in magic. Wrathguards aren't limited to Warrior abilities. Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar, and they can be Warlocks if they so choose, they aren't limited to one class. Mannoroth was stated to be as skilled as a Mid-Level Eredar.

"Nothing is known of the culture of the annihilan, but it is likely one where raw power is valued above all else. While Mannoroth was certainly quite powerful, he probably rose to become their leader through his cunning and magical knowledge — he is said to have been as skilled as a mid-level eredar. Besides Magtheridon, no other pit lord has shown particular affinity for the arcane arts, though many of them know the 'fel firestorm' spell"

Power level as in magical power level, yes, Wrathguards are actually more powerful than the Pit Lords. The Warlocks of the Burning Legion are the leaders. Warlocks, not Warriors.

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Higher ranked demons like Nathrezims,Pit Lords,Eredar Lords are simply too much for warlocks to handle lore wise. They are more powerful than PC warlocks in some cases.

Actually, Demons are at the beck and call of Warlocks. Master Warlocks. Wilfred Fizzlebang summoned a Man'ari Eredar, when he intended to summon a Doomguard. If Wilfred Fizzlebang can summon a Man'ari Eredar, certainly we can. The Man'ari Eredar Warlock killed Wilfred Fizzlebang, but he is a whimsically arrogant character and died from his arrogance. The Warlocks we play are disciplined, and we are masters of Warlock magic, we don't succumb to Fel magic.

[Aquamonkey]

You don't get it. Clearly. Before Sargeras offered the Eredar from Argus power, all Eredar were skilled in magic, all Eredar are still skilled in magic. Wrathguards aren't limited to Warrior abilities. Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar, and they can be Warlocks if they so choose, they aren't limited to one class. Mannoroth was stated to be as skilled as a Mid-Level Eredar.

"Nothing is known of the culture of the annihilan, but it is likely one where raw power is valued above all else. While Mannoroth was certainly quite powerful, he probably rose to become their leader through his cunning and magical knowledge — he is said to have been as skilled as a mid-level eredar. Besides Magtheridon, no other pit lord has shown particular affinity for the arcane arts, though many of them know the 'fel firestorm' spell"

Power level as in magical power level, yes, Wrathguards are actually more powerful than the Pit Lords. The Warlocks of the Burning Legion are the leaders. Warlocks, not Warriors.

No source. It sounds like something from the RPG.

[Wildmoon]

You don't get it. Clearly. Before Sargeras offered the Eredar from Argus power, all Eredar were skilled in magic, all Eredar are still skilled in magic. Wrathguards aren't limited to Warrior abilities. Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar, and they can be Warlocks if they so choose, they aren't limited to one class. Mannoroth was stated to be as skilled as a Mid-Level Eredar.

"Nothing is known of the culture of the annihilan, but it is likely one where raw power is valued above all else. While Mannoroth was certainly quite powerful, he probably rose to become their leader through his cunning and magical knowledge — he is said to have been as skilled as a mid-level eredar. Besides Magtheridon, no other pit lord has shown particular affinity for the arcane arts, though many of them know the 'fel firestorm' spell"

Power level as in magical power level, yes, Wrathguards are actually more powerful than the Pit Lords. The Warlocks of the Burning Legion are the leaders. Warlocks, not Warriors.

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Actually, Demons are at the beck and call of Warlocks. Master Warlocks. Wilfred Fizzlebang summoned a Man'ari Eredar, when he intended to summon a Doomguard. If Wilfred Fizzlebang can summon a Man'ari Eredar, certainly we can. The Man'ari Eredar Warlock killed Wilfred Fizzlebang, but he is a whimsically arrogant character and died from his arrogance. The Warlocks we play are disciplined, and we are masters of Warlock magic, we don't succumb to Fel magic.

What you said is confusing. Wrathguards are of Eredar race but they are wrathguard for a reason. They are weak compared to Pit Lords and all those high ranked demon. They are lower ranked because they are weak not because they choose to. That's why PC warlock could summon them. Noone said all those demons could not be summoned. They are just too powerful for warlocks to handle.

Also, Mannoroth was more powerful than ALL Eredar out there except Archimonde and Kil'jaeden. His rank was behind only them.

[Nathreim]

As for the size issue some demons including Pitlords have the ability to change their size in lore.

Personally Im just happy to have the Infernal.

[Surfd]

I would love to see a quest similar to the green fire quest, except you learn how to tame a really high level demon like a Pit Lord. It would only really be for aesthetic purposes but it could replace your doomguard or infernal. I know it will never happen, but it would be a pretty cool.

I think you are confusing warlocks with hunters here. Warlocks do not "tame" their summoned demon. They either dominate it through magical subjugation, or make some kind of magical contract with it. Pretty sure not many mortal warlocks are going to be able to dominate a pitlord, and I really doubt you would want to enter into a contract with something that powerful.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

You were railing against someone who said PC warlocks can't summon pitlords because they are too powerful. Nothing you said about Wrathguards counters his statements. Their race is irrelevant. You were trying to argue that Wrathguards are some super powerful demon class above pitlords just because they are eredar, which just isn't true. Pitlords are generals and commanders. Wrathguards are better than regular soldier fodder, but they are still just guards. Stop equating them to Eredar Warlocks which are actually in the leadership caste as overlords, strategists, and masters. They are completely different castes on completely different levels of power.

And it doesn't say anything about the Wrathguards being leaders, they are just guards for the leaders or used in battle as elite fighters above Felguards (standard soldiers).

Wrong

Pitlords are of much higher rank in the Legion than Doomguards or Infernals, so much more powerful, and harder to control.

The person I replied to stated that Pitlords are of much higher rank in the Legion than Doomguards.

http://wowpedia.org/Doomguard
http://wowpedia.org/Kazzak_the_Supreme
http://wowpedia.org/Azzinoth

The Doomguard served as Archimonde's personal escorts. There are Doomguard commanders in the Burning Legion.The Doomguard were also the Titan's hounds. Not all Pit Lords are as powerful as some Doomguards.

I don't even know why the person I replied to stated that Pit Lords are higher in rank than the Infernals. That is obvious. Infernals are nigh-mindless constructs, and not all Pit Lords are as powerful as some Doomguards. So if Doomguards can be summoned/controlled, some Pit Lords could be too.

All Eredar have an affinity for magic in all its myriad forms. The Eredar were skilled in the magic arts and they still are. The Wrathguard aren't limited to being Warriors. The Wrathguard are intelligent, they can still wield Fel magic.

Stop indicating that the Wrathguard are limited to one class/caste

Also v
http://wowpedia.org/Wrath-Scryer_Soccothrates

There are leaders amongst guards. Just because we aren't introduced to prominent Wrathguard leaders yet doesn't mean they don't exist. And that doesn't change the fact that Wrathguards CAN still wield Fel magic and can choose to be Warlocks, meaning that some hold a higher position within the Burning Legion infrastructure than a Pit Lord does

The Man'ari Eredar Warlocks are the leaders of the Burning Legion = Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar Warriors = All Eredar are talented in the magical arts = Wrathguards can choose to be Warlocks = profit

[CandyCotton Marshmallows]

^ Most likely why. It would be nice for a Satyr minion, or a Gan'arg. If we can't have Man'ari Eredar or Dreadlords, we obviously should get some other demons to summon. The Infernals aren't even Demons. They're just classified that way for in-game purposes. Even if they serve no purpose, we should have more Demons to summon and it should not be given to us through a talent point.

I remember the Dark Hounds in Tirisfal Glades. They are classified as Demons in the lore and were classified as Demons in-game. Blizzard reclassified them as Beasts in-game, and for what reason? Hunters already has a lot of pets to tame and most of the beasts they tame serve the same function ---> A tanking role or DPS role. Fel boars are demonic boars, they were beasts, but they are Demons now, and they were classified as Demons in-game but they aren't anymore, they're classified as beasts now, despite being demonic boars.

Hunters don't need more pet skins, yet Blizzard feeds them free shit, and for what reason? Hunters don't deserve #_%^#.

Blizzard hasn't removed the ability Enslave Demon and I am maddeningly trying to find out why. Blizzard keeps on re-classifying Demons as Beasts, what is Enslave Demon's purpose outside of the Kanrethad encounter?

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I don't think I'll ever find out why.

I've felt this is bullshit as well. Hunters are the golden pet class; warlocks are the red headed stepchild pet class. Hunters have hundreds of pet skins, literally. It took many years for them to give us a major talent choice to get different minion skins.

There have been suggestions of using enslave demon to 'learn' new minions ... to skin our demons. There is no reason to not have decent pets (voidlord puts voidwalker to shame; it should be a natural progression, a level 10 warlock should summon the weaker vw, a high level a lord).

There is no reason we couldn't have a larger kit of minions. There are demon core hounds that you are not allowed to enslave; as well as the continuous reclassification of demons into beasts for the hunter's benefit.

It is frustrating to see happen, if you are a long time fan of the class and not a newcomer to it. I mean, we have to pay to switch demons that serve us ... to me that is a wtf thing. If you have enslaved a demon, you don't want it, you have the talent and ability to put it under your control, and you'd have that same ability to do so to another of its ilk.

I agree and don't with the infernal argument in the thread. Infernals are contructs; intelligence doesn't matter, viability and durability does. IF you had earned your infernal prior to it being a talent given to every warlock, you'd know you needed a reagent. You were basically doing a short incantation with your reagent to summon it at your whim to fight; and fill in your own justification of its length of existence; burning magical construct burning itself out or whatever. Doomguard was slightly different, but same general idea. You needed a reagent AND you needed other to click on a ritual stone that you dropped to summon it. Summoning it also had the chance to kill (or nearly kill?) one of the people helping to summon. It was something you'd do before combat because of that, not a mid-fight, get 3 people to click on a stone that might kill you. The only other way to get one was Curse of Doom that if the Curse was the killing blow, it would spawn a doomgaurd (that was aggressive) ... it was actually funny to have that happen because you just killed a raid boss (or even more so in a dungeon) and not expecting a relatively powerful add to spawn and start beating on them



It may seem 'cool' to have a pit lord; but its size represents issues in pvp and pve. I don't like the fact they have to do it, but could you imagine having 3-5 warlocks in your 25 player raid all with pit lords humping the boss? It would be an issue for organization of the raid group and people seeing mechanics ... mini-pit lords would be a bit odd for me as well, just like seeing baby core hounds running around with hunters. I want their pets to be proper size for the species, and I'd want our minions to be as well.


p.s. please don't give them the idea to remove enslave demon, it can still be fun ... and just like priests using MC occasionally in instances, it can add a bit of flavor or fun for at least some people (though I personally rarely if ever use it). I think leaving flavor (and bringing back a lot of it) is best.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

I do however agree about the size of the Pit Lord being an issue. That is why I stated we should be given demons like Satyrs and Mo'arg to summon.

I came up with an idea that might make Enslave Demon more useful.

Minor Glyph [Demonic Construct] : Sacrifice a permanent summonable Demon and bestow their abilities unto a Demon that you enslaved with your Enslave Demon ability, scaling the Enslaved Demon to your level, and will replace the original Demon you sacrificed. Any specialization

In-game, there are demons who use their magic to disguise themselves using as gnomes, humans, etc. and it is known that Warlocks can imbue creatures with intelligence, so I was thinking, Warlocks can sacrifice a Demon, and imbue their knowledge unto a Demon they enslave with their enslave Demon. Other than the Kanrethad encounter, there isn't much of a good use for Enslave Demon so I'm just brainstorming ideas. Enslaving Demons that are at the same or lower level than our default summonable demons do less damage and provide less utility, and since you will inevitably lose control of the enslaved demon, the ability goes to waste.

[Aquamonkey]

Wrong



The person I replied to stated that Pitlords are of much higher rank in the Legion than Doomguards.

http://wowpedia.org/Doomguard
http://wowpedia.org/Kazzak_the_Supreme
http://wowpedia.org/Azzinoth

The Doomguard served as Archimonde's personal escorts. There are Doomguard commanders in the Burning Legion.The Doomguard were also the Titan's hounds. Not all Pit Lords are as powerful as some Doomguards.

I don't even know why the person I replied to stated that Pit Lords are higher in rank than the Infernals. That is obvious. Infernals are nigh-mindless constructs, and not all Pit Lords are as powerful as some Doomguards. So if Doomguards can be summoned/controlled, some Pit Lords could be too.

All Eredar have an affinity for magic in all its myriad forms. The Eredar were skilled in the magic arts and they still are. The Wrathguard aren't limited to being Warriors. The Wrathguard are intelligent, they can still wield Fel magic.

Stop indicating that the Wrathguard are limited to one class/caste

Also v
http://wowpedia.org/Wrath-Scryer_Soccothrates

There are leaders amongst guards. Just because we aren't introduced to prominent Wrathguard leaders yet doesn't mean they don't exist. And that doesn't change the fact that Wrathguards CAN still wield Fel magic and can choose to be Warlocks, meaning that some hold a higher position within the Burning Legion infrastructure than a Pit Lord does

The Man'ari Eredar Warlocks are the leaders of the Burning Legion = Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar Warriors = All Eredar are talented in the magical arts = Wrathguards can choose to be Warlocks = profit

According to your own source, the entire group known as "Pit Lord" are designated Generals and Ground Commanders.

You are making shit up regarding Wrathguards despite them explicitly being listed separately and not of the Legions' leadership caste. Only the Eredar Eredar (warlocks) are of leadership level and power. Wrathguards are only listed as guards. They are shit in comparison or they wouldn't be guards and would actually be in the Legion's leadership. They're like the Secret Service and you're trying to pretend they are part of the Cabinet.

Soccothrates was in an honored position amongst other Wrathguards because he guarded the Legion's top commanders.

Doomguards can also function as enforcers, that gives some of them a higher standing in the Legion.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

According to your own source, the entire group known as "Pit Lord" are designated Generals and Ground Commanders.

You are making shit up regarding Wrathguards despite them explicitly being listed separately and not of the Legions' leadership caste. Only the Eredar Eredar (warlocks) are of leadership level and power. Wrathguards are only listed as guards.

Soccothrates was in an honored position amongst other Wrathguards because he guarded the Legion's top commanders.

Doomguards can also function as enforcers, that gives some of them a higher standing in the Legion.

The Pit Lords are listed as generals and commanders but that does not mean a Demon from another race can't hold the same position. We aren't given much detail about the Wrathguard but it's a KNOWN FACT that Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar. It's a known fact that Wrathguards are intelligent. It's a known fact they CAN wield Fel magic. Being a Warrior doesn't prohibit you from choosing to pick up a different class. The difference between the Wrathguard and the Man'ari Eredar Warlocks is that one group are Warriors and the other group are Warlocks.

Who cares if Doomguards can be enforcers? I am pointing out that not all Pit Lords rank above all Doomguards and some Doomguards hold a higher rank than some Pit Lords. Some Doomguards hold a leadership role in the Burning Legion.

As you stated:

PC warlocks are not summoning leader-class demons.

So you are undeniably wrong. We can summon Doomguards.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...-story/velen/5

"alluring succubi wielding greenish-yellow fire and powerful magic, destroying everything in their path."

What the Holographic Emitter states does not contradict that the Wrathguard CAN be Warlocks.

If Succubi can be Warlocks then Wrathguards can be Warlocks.

The Wrathguard are listed as seperate, but the Wrathguard is a caste, they can move out of that caste.

-Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar

-The Man'ari Eredar Warlocks are the leaders of the Burning Legion

-Wrathguards CAN be Warlocks.

Even the most dim-witted of a race can become Warlocks and as we all know, Wrathguards are Demons and are intelligent.

If you're capable of simple logic/reasoning, you would have understood.

[DarthMonk79]

maybe we can't control pit lords cuz blizzard doesn't want us to. What a concept!!! then complaining that hunters have a bunch of pets to go with where locks only have a few, at least they all have some different spells and abilities. There might be thousands of pets a hunter can tame but there's only a few abilities between them. Why are people complaining about this crap.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

What the Vision of Perfection cannot comprehend is why ignored people can view your posts. I will never, ever, ever understand.

[Aquamonkey]

The Pit Lords are listed as generals and commanders but that does not mean a Demon from another race can't hold the same position. We aren't given much detail about the Wrathguard but it's a KNOWN FACT that Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar. It's a known fact that Wrathguards are intelligent. It's a known fact they CAN wield Fel magic. Being a Warrior doesn't prohibit you from choosing to pick up a different class. The difference between the Wrathguard and the Man'ari Eredar Warlocks is that one group are Warriors and the other group are Warlocks.

Who cares if Doomguards can be enforcers? I am pointing out that not all Pit Lords rank above all Doomguards and some Doomguards hold a higher rank than some Pit Lords. Some Doomguards hold a leadership role in the Burning Legion.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...-story/velen/5

"alluring succubi wielding greenish-yellow fire and powerful magic, destroying everything in their path."

What the Holographic Emitter states does not contradict that the Wrathguard CAN be Warlocks.

If Succubi can be Warlocks then Wrathguards can be Warlocks.

The Wrathguard are listed as seperate, but the Wrathguard is a caste, they can move out of that caste.

-Wrathguards are Man'ari Eredar

-The Man'ari Eredar Warlocks are the leaders of the Burning Legion

-Wrathguards CAN be Warlocks.

Even the most dim-witted of races can become Warlocks and as we all know, Wrathguards are Demons and are intelligent.

If you're capable of simple logic, you would have understood.

Except they aren't.... Their race is irrelevant. I'm not talking about their race, which seems to be what you are cherry-picking. Yes, Eredar can rise to the leadership ranks, but Wrathguards are the ones who didn't/couldn't. They are shit in comparison or they wouldn't be guards and would actually be in the Legion's leadership. They're like the Secret Service and you're trying to pretend they are part of the Cabinet.

It's like Grunts and Shaman for orcs. Yes, they are both orcs. Racially, there is potential for an orc to take on a high caste of shaman. But if they are shit, they are relegated to the lower caste of Grunt. A Grunt is not going to suddenly jump up to the level of a Shaman, just like a Wrathguard is not going to suddenly jump to the level of an Eredar Overlord or Strategist.

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As you stated:

PC warlocks are not summoning leader-class demons.

So you are undeniably wrong. We can summon Doomguards.

Oh, look. You're cherry-picking information again. Doomguards are not exclusively Enforcers. The lesser ones function as Shock Troops. FFS, this is all from the same source you cited....

[Cheapnecrolyte]

maybe we can't control pit lords cuz blizzard doesn't want us to. What a concept!!! then complaining that hunters have a bunch of pets to go with where locks only have a few, at least they all have some different spells and abilities. There might be thousands of pets a hunter can tame but there's only a few abilities between them. Why are people complaining about this crap.

OHHHH SNAPPLES. You have found the answer to your very own question within your very own post. Hunters have thousands of pets they can tame and most of them share the same function. While Blizzard reclassify demons we can enslave into beasts so hunters could have more pets that does the same thing as his other pets. ROFLOLMAO, and also, I'm aware Blizzard doesn't give us Pit Lords because they don't have to, they should though, although their size is definitely problematic, which is why I stated we should be given a satyr or Mo'arg to summon.

People complain, welcome to forums.

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Except they aren't.... Their race is irrelevant. I'm not talking about their race, which seems to be what you are cherry-picking. Yes, Eredar can rise to the leadership ranks, but Wrathguards are the ones who didn't/couldn't. They are shit in comparison or they wouldn't be guards and would actually be in the Legion's leadership. They're like the Secret Service and you're trying to pretend they are part of the Cabinet.

It's like Grunts and Shaman for orcs. Yes, they are both orcs. Racially, there is potential for an orc to take on a high caste of shaman. But if they are shit, they are relegated to the lower caste of Grunt. A Grunt is not going to suddenly jump up to the level of a Shaman, just like a Wrathguard is not going to suddenly jump to the level of an Eredar Overlord or Strategist.

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Oh, look. You're cherry-picking information again. Doomguards are not exclusively Enforcers. The lesser ones function as Shock Troops. FFS, this is all from the same source you cited....

ROFLOLMAO, their race is relevant. Because the leaders of the Burning Legion are Man'ari Eredar Warlocks. Wrathguard are Man'ari Eredar AND THEY CAN be Warlocks.

The Exodar Holographic Emitter doesn't state that a Wrathguard can't be a Warlock. The Wrathguard are more adept at magic than Orgres, even Ogres can become Warlocks. Even the Lost Ones can become Warlocks. The Succubi can become Warlocks.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...-story/velen/5

"alluring succubi wielding greenish-yellow fire and powerful magic, destroying everything in their path."


The Exodar Holographic Emitter doesn't state that Succubi can be Warlocks. It doesn't go into specifics. The point I'm making, is that there are leaders within the Burning Legion infrastructure that aren't Man'ari Eredar Warlocks or Pit Lords. In fact, Archimonde and Mannoroth held no sway over Xavius.


“Archimonde had called Xavius a satyr, one of Sargeras’s blessed servants.”

"Even Archimonde did not realize everything Xavius plotted, for the former night elf answered now to Sargeras alone. Neither Archimonde nor Mannoroth had any sway over him.
Yes, Xavius thought, if all went as planned, when Sargeras entered the world, it would be he who stood at the right hand of the demon lord . . . and Archimonde and Mannoroth who would be forced to kneel before him."

Excerpt From: Richard A. Knaak. “Warcraft: War of the Ancients #2: The Demon Soul.” Pocket Star Books. iBooks.



I already know Doomguards aren't exclusively enforcers. Directly quote me where I have stated they are exclusively enforcers. Exactly. You can't. I stated not all Pit Lords rank higher than all Doomgaurds, and that is true. There are Doomguards who serve as leaders/commanders within the Burning Legion infrastructure, and that is true.

PWNT