WoD's proposed Mistweaver changes

[Entropy]

Is anyone else annoyed that all Healing Spheres are lumped in under Gift of the Serpent when the ones from PoM and CE definitely are not from Gift of the Serpent? Detonate Chi is also lumped in there (but no one uses it lololol). It's very hard to tell what actual impact those mechanics have and even harder to figure out what the impact of mastery is.

https://twitter.com/Hanna_MW/status/493932683907837953

[Brilynn]

Consistently 10k hps above other healers (hpriest/rshaman) both fights today. I would say the class felt pretty strong so long as we stuck to stack strats.

[apepi]

Is anyone else annoyed that all Healing Spheres are lumped in under Gift of the Serpent when the ones from PoM and CE definitely are not from Gift of the Serpent? Detonate Chi is also lumped in there (but no one uses it lololol). It's very hard to tell what actual impact those mechanics have and even harder to figure out what the impact of mastery is.

No one uses Detonate Chi? Shocker!

[Rakael]

Yo Reglitch, as you are one of the few top high lvl raiding guys, what healing setup is your guild going for?

Just chiming in here as I am a lurker but no one will be able to answer this question for you until much later into the beta process.

[Geodew]

Celestalon seems to be ignoring all my good questions. Not sure if he doesn't know the answer, or is afraid to tell me the answer. Sigh.

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BTW ReM/Uplift still seem off, my EM heals for more than 10x my Uplift on one target; that shouldn't happen until ~42% Haste

[Totaltotemic]

BTW ReM/Uplift still seem off, my EM heals for more than 10x my Uplift on one target; that shouldn't happen until ~42% Haste

No, that should be happening even with 0 haste. EM is 925% SP total, Uplift is only 82%.

Just looking at those numbers on some of the spells though, it's so damn weird.

For the following, I acknowledge the fact that tuning has yet to happen, this is more of an exercise to figure out where tuning needs to happen because waiting until they throw random numbers at the board doesn't usually work out well.

Here are some samples for total healing per target for 1 GCD spent:

Soothing Mist: 172% SP per 1.5 sec (not counting statue)

Renewing Mist: 109% SP over 20 sec (to 1 target)

Surging Mist: Unknown, tooltip broken?

SCK/RJW/Chi talents: Unknown, what is so hard about having straight SP coefficients on the tooltips?

Enveloping Mist: 925% SP over 6 sec (not counting Soothing increase)

Uplift: 82% SP per target

Chi Explosionx2 (honestly we need an agreed-upon notation for this): 607.5% SP over 6 sec

Chi Explosion x3: 810% SP over 6 sec divided amongst all targets in range.

Chi Explosion x4: 1013% SP over 6 sec divided amongst all targets in range, plus 472% SP in Healing Spheres - total 1485% SP


So there are a few things to note here, the first being that a 3x CE is actually kind of garbage compared to Enveloping Mist, even more so if you Soothing the target as well. It should probably be no question for CE to be better in this circumstance.

Uplift vs EM breaks even at 11.3 targets even with no soothing on EM. 2x Uplift vs a 4x CE is even at 9 targets even if you account for the healing spheres, which is reasonable because if that many people are hurt at once you'd expect Uplift to win since that's kind of its job.

ReM across 3 targets does literally less than Soothing Mist + Statue for 1.5 seconds. I know it gives 1 chi and enables Uplift, but come on, that's just pathetic.

3x CE seems like a complete waste of time. I don't think they thought this one through when they nerfed the effect from copying to meteoring, it's strictly always better to do a 4x CE instead which does almost double the healing. Combined with the fact that it's also worse than EM, I think we can conclude that the 3x CE needs a new effect entirely (or simply adding another 50% onto the heal at that point).


We can conclude from all of this that the 3x CE effect needs to be beefed up, ReM is utter garbage and needs to have its healing increased to around double what it is, and Uplift probably needs to be increased a bit to compete with EM and still edge out CE at 12+ targets if CE gets a buff. All of this can be done without affecting healer balance by doing across-the-board changes after the spells have the right ratios to each other.

[Entropy]

Celestalon seems to be ignoring all my good questions. Not sure if he doesn't know the answer, or is afraid to tell me the answer. Sigh.

- - - Updated - - -

BTW ReM/Uplift still seem off, my EM heals for more than 10x my Uplift on one target; that shouldn't happen until ~42% Haste

Good luck, you have to ask very specific questions any retard and answer.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...01&end=2575679


This is the only time frame I can find where Path of mists would be noticeable "mainly because i did not use it during any other part of the fight because it sucks ur mana quick if people are playing like cuntz"


One thing to note is. Rem was on 5 people, meaning I slacked pretty hard but it does not change the point. ReM if used correctly, most likely would of beaten PoM in healing. Using this logic I can say ReM will always beat PoM. Not to mention ReM had 40% over heal.


NEVER USE POM SPELL SUCKS DICK

[Deleted]

http://www.twitch.tv/sheetka

streaming some mistweaver gameplay

[Spotnick]

If you think mistweavers are bad, you should have seen me testing my disc priest last night.

Must say, so far, I really don't like how healing is in WOD, not at all, but that's me, starting healing in T11, so I'm used to the aoe fest.

I really hope for a good wave of balancing soon. For the curious, here is our last attempt log, we had a mistweaver, just wanted to test disc last night and see how bad it is.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...T#type=healing

25 man full guild group with 7 healers.

[Entropy]

If you think mistweavers are bad, you should have seen me testing my disc priest last night.

Must say, so far, I really don't like how healing is in WOD, not at all, but that's me, starting healing in T11, so I'm used to the aoe fest.

I really hope for a good wave of balancing soon. For the curious, here is our last attempt log, we had a mistweaver, just wanted to test disc last night and see how bad it is.

http://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/...T#type=healing

25 man full guild group with 7 healers.

I think disc is fine, it provides that extra hp buffer via absorbs, it does not need to be topping the meters like it does now.

[Spotnick]

I think disc is fine, it provides that extra hp buffer via absorbs, it does not need to be topping the meters like it does now.

While I'm not there to validate disc, priests are fine as they have 2 healing specs anyways, the log shows how mistweaver are in spread fights, and well, seems like uplift really needs a buff, but we all know that.

[Entropy]

00:01:07.509 Hannaswag Uplift Baltz +*10119*
00:01:07.509 Hannaswag Uplift Roidzillaz +*10120*
00:00:16.861 Hannaswag Renewing Mist Svebn +1504
00:00:16.892 Hannaswag Renewing Mist Scarlynn +1503
00:00:16.896 Hannaswag Renewing Mist Yukk +1504
00:00:13.466 Hannaswag Rushing Jade Wind Roymix +4753
00:00:13.466 Hannaswag Rushing Jade Wind Scarlynn +4321
00:00:48.825 Hannaswag Chi Explosion Hannaswag +0 (O: 3231)
00:00:48.855 Hannaswag Chi Explosion Quilen (Bekill) +0 (O: 3948)
00:00:48.855 Hannaswag Chi Explosion Somaa +0 (O: 1419)
00:00:48.855 Hannaswag Chi Explosion Scarlynn +0 (O: 2912)
--------------------------------------------------------------------
00:00:07.765 Svebn Rejuvenation Yukk +8594
00:00:07.787 Svebn Rejuvenation Tostitos +0 (O: 8595)
00:01:06.538 Svebn Wild Growth Bekill +3434
00:01:06.538 Svebn Wild Growth Yukk +3122
00:01:06.538 Svebn Wild Growth Ub +3123
00:09:03.045 Svebn Wild Mushroom Baltz +*8980*
00:09:04.799 Svebn Wild Mushroom Bekill +4725
00:09:04.799 Svebn Wild Mushroom Baltz +*8980*
00:09:04.799 Svebn Wild Mushroom Roymix +4725
00:09:06.545 Svebn Wild Mushroom Svebn +4295
--------------------------------------------------------------------
00:00:19.086 Scarlynn Chain Heal Tostitos +10028
00:00:19.086 Scarlynn Chain Heal Tostitos +*6289* (Multistrike)
00:00:19.086 Scarlynn Chain Heal Yukk +*7388* (O: 15369)
00:00:08.387 Scarlynn Riptide Scarlynn +*8046* (O: 71)
00:00:08.471 Scarlynn Riptide Svebn +2002
00:00:38.691 Scarlynn Healing Stream Totem Svebn +3630
00:00:38.691 Scarlynn Healing Stream Totem Tostitos +3218
00:00:39.984 Scarlynn Healing Stream Totem Hannaswag +3802
00:00:39.984 Scarlynn Healing Stream Totem Somaa +3183
--------------------------------------------------------------------
00:00:01.928 Ub Circle of Healing Ub +0 (O: 13499)
00:00:01.928 Ub Circle of Healing Valti +13217
00:00:01.928 Ub Circle of Healing Svebn +0 (O: 13512)
00:00:01.928 Ub Circle of Healing Hannaswag +*0* (O: 27746)
00:00:01.928 Ub Circle of Healing Baltz +0 (O: 13377)
00:00:01.928 Ub Circle of Healing Roymix +0 (O: 14584)
--------------------------------------------------------------------

raid healing numbers do not look to unbalanced, druids just have more hots going on at once then us, meaning more healing. They prob just need to be toned down a little. I have not raided with a pally, but I am going to have to think they will be on tanks most of the time. so they do not mater

[Darkener]

While I'm not there to validate disc, priests are fine as they have 2 healing specs anyways, the log shows how mistweaver are in spread fights, and well, seems like uplift really needs a buff, but we all know that.

Disc healing is a lot different now, and I see Disc Priest testing in WoD taking the same old MoP SoO approach. You tried a lot of different talent/spell combos which is good. But Disc priests still trying to Atonement heal are going to be 50% or lower than other healers. Smite and Penance damage is so bad, I would only ever use HF to stack AA. Penance is pretty much exclusively a heal now, you lose 40% healing when cast against an enemy. Triage is pretty much Heal & Holy Nova. Emergency is FH/Penance & PoH. Then use PWS/SS/CoW for burst damage or low health. I don't really see a place for Atonement, maybe late in the xpac. Same for Fistweaving. It's like WoD will be the death of the "damage" healer unless you can convince your raid to switch to the damage done tab and even then the tiny amount of dps won't impress anyone it will just make them more mad at you for wasting time doing "low" dps instead of healing. I hope I will be wrong on that one.

[Entropy]

Disc healing is a lot different now, and I see Disc Priest testing in WoD taking the same old MoP SoO approach. You tried a lot of different talent/spell combos which is good. But Disc priests still trying to Atonement heal are going to be 50% or lower than other healers. Smite and Penance damage is so bad, I would only ever use HF to stack AA. Penance is pretty much exclusively a heal now, you lose 40% healing when cast against an enemy. Triage is pretty much Heal & Holy Nova. Emergency is FH/Penance & PoH. Then use PWS/SS/CoW for burst damage or low health. I don't really see a place for Atonement, maybe late in the xpac. Same for Fistweaving. It's like WoD will be the death of the "damage" healer unless you can convince your raid to switch to the damage done tab and even then the tiny amount of dps won't impress anyone it will just make them more mad at you for wasting time doing "low" dps instead of healing. I hope I will be wrong on that one.

Chances are the last part is correct. If you want to FW it means the healing requirement is extremely low. Go WW with how easy it is to change specs, FW should never really be on option minus 5 mans that you are like 40 ilevels higher then. Or a boss is casting some like 40 second nuke as an enrage with no healing requirement.

[Kaeth]

zen sphere still need to disappear totally and replaced with another thing

Or be changed to a single-target-only spell and massively retuned. Though this is coming from a primarily BrM point of view, I'd love to be able to use Zen Sphere's mechanics (aside from the 2-targets-but-clunky-CD/duration part), but its numbers are just such shit. A reliable single-target HoT with a DoT aura, that can bloom, would be rather attractive if it didn't heal for less than a single healing sphere over its duration.

[Darkener]

Just tested Chi Explosion (Serpent and Crane) to see the healing difference between the two because the Crane version retains the "heals all players within 8 yards for X" versus the Serpent tooltip that was changed to "evenly divided by the number of players".

Anyway, it behaves totally (ok, somewhat) different than the tooltip. The Crane version behaves a lot different. The Serpent version behaves a little different. And they both seem to have weird bugs, plus the numbers in the tooltip are not correct. Right now it seems the Serpent version is healing all players in 8 yards for an undivided amount, contrary to the tooltip. There is also a hoT going out on multiple players before the number of Chi is reached to do that (fewer than all but more than none).

I think some of the bug parts of this is due to every single healing dummy having exactly the same name, which is forbidden in actual live WoW for players to have the same name (enemies/mobs can but players can't). I say this because I notice spells affecting the wrong targets on both my healers, Priest and Monk.

Even with that it is clear CE is not working right so these numbers in raid tests are not valid. Other healers undoubtedly have bugs too.

[Totaltotemic]

Right, there's the fact that CE is basically broken, but at least we do have the tooltip to go by for how it's supposed to work.

[Spotnick]

I don't really see a place for Atonement, maybe late in the xpac. Same for Fistweaving. It's like WoD will be the death of the "damage" healer unless you can convince your raid to switch to the damage done tab and even then the tiny amount of dps won't impress anyone it will just make them more mad at you for wasting time doing "low" dps instead of healing. I hope I will be wrong on that one.

I don't know, at some point they tried to give it to every healer, and then it was used to regen mana, and then then changed their idea again.. it's really hard to follow their logic. Today disc received another nerf, Celestalon replied to me to wait for tuning, so we'll see.

However I'm bringing my monk to next raid testing, seems like hot classes will shine in this xpac... which I believe they wanted to do for a while.

[Deleted]

I hope Monks are still viable in WoD, I feel they're a bit too strong at the moment and are too good at everything they do, but that's what makes them so fun to play x)

[Brilynn]

I hope Monks are still viable in WoD, I feel they're a bit too strong at the moment and are too good at everything they do, but that's what makes them so fun to play x)

You cannot, in any way, be talking about MW...