[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Vash The Stampede]

Movement speed has only ever contributed theoretical dps that can't actually be quantified, and in raids I don't know that we need any more than what we have available already. Unless they start making encounters the size of the iron highway headin up to flame levi. This is of course directed at talen, not you dakeshi. Just too lazy to quote him.

Movement speed increases have always been valuable for raiding. Someone figured out that movement speed increase enchants are more valuable then pure stats. That's why some Rets put Pandaren step on their boots instead of haste. I can't remember too many bosses that mimic patchwerk type fights.

Also consider how lvl 100 talents may effect out stat scaling. Final Verdict may favor haste, while Seraphim may effect mastery more, and Empowered Seals may effect crit. So you may intentionally want big gaps for GCDs with Empowered Seals, so you can fill in Seal swapping.

Wow so you intentionally put yourself behind the entire raiding curb. Gross

I've done it before. Not something I worry about.

Talen just stop. The self healing talent is trash because we already have ways to heal ourselves and mitigate damage without going through a clunky rotation that costs dps. Sorry going to dogshit dps seals costs you passive dps the 18% holy weapon damage truth procs aren't free.

Weren't you the one proclaiming how great our utility is to give out heals to raid members? A self healing hot would allow us to give out more heals, without worrying about our random deaths from raid damage.

You shouldn't judge things so hasty anaxie.

[Fredzilla]

A movement speed buff in addition to what we already have.

If you don't get where you wanna go fast enough now with LAotL, or either of the other two really, you're not where you should be. The only time this entire tier I had trouble keeping up was H Lei Shen when SoL was on CD, or I didn't want it to be for the transition, because we had a warrior tank leaping between quadrants. Literally 0 problems otherwise.

There are so very very few times when we need to move faster than LAotL or Speed of Light allow us to right now. Sure, there'll be different fights in WoD, but something tells me they won't involve that much more movement. Especially with them (theoretically) cutting down on ranged dps' ability to dps while moving.

Could each buff have some use? Sure, no one is denying that. The part we deny is that it'd be remotely worth keep up all the time, because there's no way it could be if you're wasting gcd's swapping to shitty SoJ and SoI.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Weren't you the one proclaiming how great our utility is to give out heals to raid members? A self healing hot would allow us to give out more heals, without worrying about our random deaths from raid damage.

That would be me I suppose, like Dakeshi said.
But you don't throw out a instant selfless healer FoL every time you get 3 stacks of the buff, just as you don't use LoH on CD and so on. They're situational and (IMO) it's a significant skill to have as a ret to be able to do your damage as close as possible to "perfect" while you keep track of raid encounter timings and your raids health. Or in rare cases you know that a debuff is coming up in ~5 seconds so you'll beware of that and throw a sacrifice or whatever on people when things like that happen.

IMO important "skills" as a raider.
Raid awareness > able to react to X(doing the encounters) > not dying/taking unnecessary damage > dealing damage.
"Random deaths" should never happen, I can think of 3 bosses in MoP that has somewhat of a "RNG" death factor to it. Every other boss this expansion is very well tuned to not instant gib people with "random". If someone tell you that they died to "random" chances are they don't know what the hell they're doing.

[anaxie]

Off topic, but I finally got my name on mmo champion. No more confusion :3

YAY everyone likes names

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A movement speed buff in addition to what we already have.



There are so very very few times when we need to move faster than LAotL or Speed of Light allow us to right now. Sure, there'll be different fights in WoD, but something tells me they won't involve that much more movement. Especially with them (theoretically) cutting down on ranged dps' ability to dps while moving.

Could each buff have some use? Sure, no one is denying that. The part we deny is that it'd be remotely worth keep up all the time, because there's no way it could be if you're wasting gcd's swapping to shitty SoJ and SoI.

No it won;t have a place period. Especially with rocket boots being avail to everyone.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Especially with rocket boots being avail to everyone.

Space Paladins.

[anaxie]

Get fucked son

[Fredzilla]

I had forgotten about that. Don't really see much point to it then. PvP only really.

[anaxie]

Space Paladins.

Genius! And then once we are closer to the light we will be complete.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Could each buff have some use? Sure, no one is denying that. The part we deny is that it'd be remotely worth keep up all the time, because there's no way it could be if you're wasting gcd's swapping to shitty SoJ and SoI.

Like everything else that is "situational" it's knowing when and when NOT they're needed, a lot of people have problems doing that so they chose no to play with it and instead focus on the other half of the class they're playing. You see that on all classes/roles not just ret paladins, so then when people say that X is weak when they only play "half" of what the spec can do it frustrates me so much, like Adele I sometimes set fire to the rain to get some anger out.

[Fredzilla]

Like everything else that is "situational" it's knowing when and when NOT they're needed, a lot of people have problems doing that so they chose no to play with it and instead focus on the other half of the class they're playing. You see that on all classes/roles not just ret paladins, so then when people say that X is weak when they only play "half" of what the spec can do it frustrates me so much, like Adele I sometimes set fire to the rain to get some anger out.

I know, I was merely saying that since Talen was, for some unknown reason, saying we'd keep all 4 up all the time, which would be a horrendous dps loss. Theoretically.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

(For the people who don't see what's happening. Hisek did aim at the exact same time as Dissector transformed people into scorpions. Both mechanics hit me and a parasite proceeded to start casting feed on me. All in the span of a second)

Yep, I had that happen to me and a feral druid in the guild at the same time, same pull, same second...
oh wait, it's not the same. Me and the druid got turned into the scorpions (tick) then got critted by the split shot before we both got finished by parasites that were fixated on us. 0.4sec kill log.
Another example is Nazgrim if he does a shout thing (technically bad play by some people) and you're tanking a shaman and you get powned hard.
Point was that the chances for that to happen is extremely small to make an excuse for it, more to the point the number of bosses that legit has a possibility to "RNG" people down is extremely, extremely low.

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I know, I was merely saying that since Talen was, for some unknown reason, saying we'd keep all 4 up all the time, which would be a horrendous dps loss. Theoretically.

In any situation where you HAVE to deal with a raid mechanic that comes way above dps in priority anyways, if you're set to deal with the Siege Engineer on HC Garrosh P1 your job is to go there and get it down. That means go there and be ready for him as he walks out, not "finish your cast and then go"... If you get fixated by Thok your first goal isn't to spam lightning bolt while you're moving him around, your first prio is to move him correctly.
Then the whole point towards going heal/support talents over stronger dps talents come into whatever and so on, basically if you have to do something situational your dps matters less.
Shouldn't have to be explained, anyways... the movement speed is situational use or for tanks to move adds faster or for holy/ret to get into positions faster. The self heal is prob only going to be a prot thing if any, plausible for high raid damage phases. People seriously have to consider different aspects of the new talents and abilities (or changes to old) and not just jump to the obvious conclusion.

[Vash The Stampede]

Also anaxie is hasty at judging things because, like i've tried to explain nicely, people have fucking stupid arguments. You wouldn't want to keep 100% uptime on movement speed because most of the times you don't utilize it at all. You want it for rare situations.

Isn't that the point of those extra bonuses? I wouldn't keep up healing or speed increase unless everything goes to hell, as it often does in my raids. Thok for example would be great to have a situational speed increase. Or in Iron Juggernaut where it's the siege phase. Cause often when we have new try outs in the raid, half the raid tends to suddenly die for no inexplicable reason. So I slap on Seal of Insight and pray, while I use every 3 stacks Selfless healers on the tank.

No it won;t have a place period. Especially with rocket boots being avail to everyone.

I forgot about them giving everyone rocket boots. That would make it harder to justify weaving in Seal of Justice for a speed boost.

Suggesting we should keep that hot on us is fucking retarded because it's the same as saying a feral should weave in a rejuvenation every 12 seconds.

If there's a lot of raid damage you should. As a Ret I tend to sacrifice some dps for staying alive. Sometimes hybrids tend for forget that they have this healing button. Got a couple of Enhancement Shaman dying on Siegecrafter fight, that complain about lack of heals. I'm on the trendmill like they are, but I toss Le heals when I see my heath or theirs dropping.

[Deleted]

"Ret's in a fairly good place right now, design-wise. We think simple number tuning can solve their problems"
I dont get this. We lost 2 buttons and they think we are ok? Just buff some dmg and stay with 4 buttons rotation its good design-wise? i dont like this.

[anaxie]

ALot of tweets on rets today but most of the ones about readiness came from an extremely uninformed player. What does readiness do and how many legs go into my pants. Hurrrrrrrr 8{}

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Technically we COULD see shorter cooldowns on certain abilities. I personally think this simply needs to happen if anything. Judge, CD, and Hammer Imo should all be 4.5, make exo 10 seconds and either make art of war interesting mechanically, Buff the next exo to double damage, or be an independant Exorcism proc. .

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I do however believe Holy avenger is going to be tied into readiness. It's clearly the only way to keep Holy Avenger on par with Sanctified Wrath.

[morislayer]

ALot of tweets on rets today but most of the ones about readiness came from an extremely uninformed player. What does readiness do and how many legs go into my pants. Hurrrrrrrr 8{}

Those tweets also confirmed "twisting" seals is going to be in and it is most certainty different than stance dancing!! LOLOL

I am though optimistic that Seal Twisting could turn out to be a buffed version of the vanilla / TBC style of damaging where your seal changes your judgement. As long as its not, Aoe: X Seal, single target: Z Seal and boss fight: Y Seal. If thats the case then they should have just scrapped seals....

[anaxie]

Yes this version of seal twisting is to me a complete fucking joke and nowhere close to the original seal twisting concept which was to provide the damage of both seals rolled into one. This one we forgo direct damage of a far better damaging seal for a buff. Fuck their intent. Empowered seals should of given us a unique seal and changed seals off the GCD. Bam Double seal power

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Or at the very least a less retarded concept such as the alternative seal we gain places a direct debuff onto the target upon application. None of this silly ass relying on Judgement crap.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I got a feeling they don't want to alienate a lot of their playerbse when making changes. Like don't change too much because apparently it's a big deal. Me? Changes to a class? Sure no problem as long as it's good. I'm not worried about relearning my class. Unfortunately I have a officer who....is perhaps way too attached to how the class is played.


Hint: It's a caster.

[anaxie]

Actually just mentioning that brings me even more idea's of Flavor. Empowered seals HURRRRR could of been a unique seal akin to the old seal system and would consume itself upon application from judgement.

[morislayer]

Actually just mentioning that brings me even more idea's of Flavor. Empowered seals HURRRRR could of been a unique seal akin to the old seal system and would consume itself upon application from judgement.

I'm thinking this to a degree as well. But Paladins HATED "rebuffing" seals every time they judged.

Watch them make X seal judgement to increase holy damage taken by 30%, Y seal judge increase critical strike chance against that target by 10% and Z seal apply a dot or old judgement of the light BS. Basically three seals twisted to accomplish one inquisition with painful ramp up time. Sounds like a blast for solo-ing and pvp...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm thinking this to a degree as well. But Paladins HATED "rebuffing" seals every time they judged.

Watch them make X seal judgement to increase holy damage taken by 30%, Y seal judge increase critical strike chance against that target by 10% and Z seal apply a dot or old judgement of the light BS. Basically three seals twisted to accomplish one inquisition with painful ramp up time. Sounds like a blast for solo-ing and pvp...

*Throws you into the Rancor pit*