[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Deleted]

w8, when u change seals u change abilities too? So seal swapping to trigger empowered seals, is even worse. Cause either u will lose dmg (tv>ds, cs>hotr) or u need to adjust your rotation so that at swapping moments those abilities wont be available or seal swapping cant be very fast and not annoying us at all, or...i dunno i am confused :s

[Zabannith]

w8, when u change seals u change abilities too? So seal swapping to trigger empowered seals, is even worse. Cause either u will lose dmg (tv>ds, cs>hotr) or u need to adjust your rotation so that at swapping moments those abilities wont be available or seal swapping cant be very fast and not annoying us at all, or...i dunno i am confused :s

the only skill that changes when you change from truth to righteousness is CS->HoTR at the moment, this was tweeted by celestion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I have a lot of faith in Blizzard but IMO locking abilities to seals is silly.

[Deleted]

I have a lot of faith in Blizzard but IMO locking abilities to seals is silly.

why? i feel like they wanna make us druid like spec :P

[Aeluron Lightsong]

why? i feel like they wanna make us druid like spec :P

Until we Rets can turn into Uther via transformation the arne't going into Druids


Also

PSA: Latest alpha build included some damage tuning changes.

Do not take those as any indication, whatsoever, of buff/nerf to spec power.

Says Overlord Celestalon

[Rogal Dorn]

I hope Judgment won't trigger a snare when in SoJ.

Why not? Mortal Strike is going to trigger hamstring and I miss Burden of Guilty talent, I was used to humiliate dks in a regular basis with it. SoJ needs some appeal and we have shit mobility.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a lot of faith in Blizzard but IMO locking abilities to seals is silly.

They make something easier "Blizz dumbing wow down", they make something harder "omg too ard".

It's only HotR tied to SoR,so, or seals wont have gcd or HotR damage will be buffed.

[Kelemar]

Why not? Mortal Strike is going to trigger hamstring and I miss Burden of Guilty talent, I was used to humiliate dks in a regular basis with it. SoJ needs some appeal and we have shit mobility.

If every single specc in the game has a snare, then there's no need for them.

[Rogal Dorn]

If every single specc in the game has a snare, then there's no need for them.

Every single melee spec have snares, many of them auto-applied (rogue, feral, enhance, dk with talent, monk perma slow while near and war now).
We have bad mobility so ranged snare is good for us.

[Krekko]

So you'll only be able to use certain abilities in certain seals? I thought they were trying to make classes LESS complex. What the hell are they doing over there?

That kind of "complexity", if you were to consider it that, is not bad. In fact, conceptually it makes a ton of sense if it's done right.

You'd have your Single Target/Multi Target spells which would be separated out.

It's a tough road to walk, and it is cool having the ability to pick and choose which spells to use, when, but if they do it right it could add depth to everything, and in turn, help allow them to tune things better.

I have a lot of faith in Blizzard but IMO locking abilities to seals is silly.

In the end, as weird as it might be, if it's executed, and thought our properly it really could make things interesting.

I'm at least down for them trying it.

- - - Updated - - -

Every single melee spec have snares, many of them auto-applied (rogue, feral, enhance, dk with talent, monk perma slow while near and war now).
We have bad mobility so ranged snare is good for us.

I just wan't Uther's leap from the DK starting zone. AKA Paladin version of Heroic Leap.

[Kelemar]

I just wan't Uther's leap from the DK starting zone. AKA Paladin version of Heroic Leap.

Yes, definitely. Or even better, Leap of Faith (similar to charge, just more "Tirion-Style"). Charge was even originally intended as a Paladin ability, it's time for Blizzard to implement it.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

In the end, as weird as it might be, if it's executed, and thought our properly it really could make things interesting.

I'm at least down for them trying it.

I'll wait and see for this one. God I can't believe I'm feeling this way.

I just wan't Uther's leap from the DK starting zone. AKA Paladin version of Heroic Leap.

DO WANT. DO WANT BLIZZARD SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

[Camaris]

The problem I have with the redesign locking HoR to SoR (and potentially DS to SoR as well) is that Blizzard already stated that sort of ability gating is undesirable for a number of reasons. This is exactly why Warriors no longer have abilities locked to certain stances and it wasn't that long ago that the development team went to the trouble of separating their toolkit from their stances.

I'm getting very, very tired of constantly being told "We want to move the design of the game in this direction," and then watching the development team apply the exact opposite philosophy to Ret.

[Fredzilla]

Well that's not an entirely applicable comparison, as wars would lose x amount of their resource going between stances, whereas we lose nothing going between seals except a gcd (at this point).

[catablitz]

So, if I get this correct....assuming I spec into empowered seals, in the last 3-4 secs of the 20 secs duration buff, I waste 2 globals (or actually I hope for an ability locked out time so as I don't delay skills) and wait for a judgement to keep a 10% attack speed buff.
Why the heck do that in first place? Design is perfect as it is now. This reminds me of warrior in wotlk when it was optimal to stance dance for rend so as to gain 0,000001% dps. I really hope that this will be what the talent will worth.
Seriously...were there any complaints about ret "rotation" after the last inquisition change?

[Vash The Stampede]

If the remove the gcd on them u'll probably be macroing it. You only need to change around 10 sec so make 1-3 macros should be the case. This seems to be the way we will be going but i really like the seraphim way more.

I don't see us making macros for Seals. There's really no point since switching over to Seal of Righteous also switches abilities.

Will never happen... sombody will ALWAYS do the math and that will be the talent to take from a math point of view.. unless they are all within .5% of each other which is doubtful

This is why I said talents should be about encombersomes, where you can't mathimatically compare one ability to another. For example, lets say we added a new ability on top of the current abilities that can't be mathically compared.

Final Verdict will now increase Paladin movement speed when Templar's Verdict is used, on top of it's current abilities. Saraphim will now reduce the Paladins damage taken by X% when used, on top of current ability. Empowered Seals will remove Seals from GCD, on top of current abilities. Suddenly you have abilities that have different benefits, that may or may not be handy in certain situations. This is probably very bad choices, but the idea is to give them something that can't be proven with math.

[rad586]

I don't like the idea of our abilities being tied to seals.
Honestly, it's not that hard to, for example, bind Crusader's Strike to 1 and HotR to SHIFT+1. Why lock HotR to SoR ? That's going way overboard with cutting ability bloat.

It really reminds of the old warrior stances, just without losing resources. Something they wanted to move away from.

[Ryuji]

...If they're gonna tie abilities into seals, then will the seals go on a separate cooldown akin to warrior stances or are they gonna be on the GCD?

Also this just sounds like a weird change. If it's gonna be on the GCD then most rets will probably just macro seals to abilities they wanna use, like how Arms Warriors used to do in late Cata I believe(possible before then as well but didn't get into warriors until 4.3)

[Maegor]

The real problem is what if I want to cleave while giving a primary target a dot, h malk for example, where the adds don't stay alive long enough to swap seals, but I can get an hotr or two in while they are out. If this is true and he didn't just misspeak, it would be fucking retarded.

And they have a couple of tiers of talents that don't affect dps and they are boring as shit.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

If HotR/CS and DS/TV(FV) is only usable if you have X seal active they have to make the GCD from changing seals lower, like 0.5 sec or less. If they don't then it means ret aoe (or single target after aoe) will be slower to get into action and require way more prep than any other class, adds spawn in 5 seconds. Get your holy power up, already takes 1-5 gcds add one more for seal swapping (which mind you will be a single target dps loss if you swap too early) then start your aoe. After aoe is done you have to use another gcd just to get back into it, depending on how much/little haste we're gonna get for the first tier or two we're looking at 1.3-1.5 gcd (based on past experience). Add the seconds up during a fight it's a bit much to be honest, if ret aoe is lackluster I'd imagine we not bother at all leaving the typical warlocks and warriors etc to cleave their hearts out...

Ret - Swap seal 2x to go back and forth between dps effectivenes..
Warrior - lol bladestorm.
Ele Shaman - Lol Chain Lightning.

Why is it that we need to have this overly complicated system to do aoe/single target? T_T

[Lumineus]

The real problem is what if I want to cleave while giving a primary target a dot, h malk for example, where the adds don't stay alive long enough to swap seals, but I can get an hotr or two in while they are out. If this is true and he didn't just misspeak, it would be fucking retarded.

Yeah, or what about Garrosh p1 where it's the opposite and you might want to use Righteousness to slowly melt the adds while tunneling Garrosh?