[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Holtzmann]

Gameplay wasn't really simplified by this change. At most, making it weird and or chosing when to Aoe. One could argue this change is complex...annoyingly complex >.>

It's not just about simplifying. It's about making the spec play in a way that's not too complex or too simple. Retribution Paladins don't have a whole lot in terms of rotational choices beyond choosing when to refresh Inquisition. So there's a good chance Ret was seen to be "too simple" and they chose to add a bit of complexity in how the transition from single-target to AoE is carried out. Many other specs have to change their rotations to do AoE, Retribution Paladins would have to spend a GCD on it.

How many other classes need to sacrifice gcds to aoe? This road they're going down makes it look about as fun as enhance aoe. Which isn't. At all.

I admit I don't know much about Shaman. Can Enhancement plan ahead and use that GCD to change "gears" while moving towards the adds, for example?

[Pigglix]

I just pray this spec dont get the road of BC again, LOLRET....those.....nightmares.

[Sforza]

avenging wrath is back to 20 seconds duration?

[Zabannith]

avenging wrath is back to 20 seconds duration?

There was nothing in the notes about it

[Deleted]

There was nothing in the notes about it

Read the tooltip in the notes

My bad. AW is always on 20sec duration :P Its the sw that makes it 30sec

[catablitz]

I start thinking that the intention is not to polish the playstyle but simply drive it towards a certain direction. This shaman comparison is one out of the rest 21-22 alternative dps specs. Imagine a frost DK obliged to swap presence to use howling blast. Does not make sence. If they want to make a seal the go to for aoe, they should add much more to it. I remember when warriors had WW and cleave usable only in zerger stance. That made sence. Abilities tied to a "stance" makes sence, abilities changing does not.
Taste aside, I can't find any reason to change something that is working fine. Instead of worrying for the obvious concerns like scaling, everyone's attention is drawn to a pointlessly made up matter.
I am pretty sure this will not go live and they will justify it as "We intended to improve Seal gameplay for Protection and Retribution but we reverted the change because players would just macro SoR and HotR"

PS: How can they grasp that the concept of button bloat is not only about how many buttons exist in the spellbook but also about how many buttons you have to press for an effective performance?
One button is removed only to be replaced by the need to press another first. Weeee!

[Dremall]

This is really counter intuitive for button bloat. For players who hardly ever switch seals, save for special circumstances clicking them is fine. All this is going to do is make people who haven't done it already keybind SotR and SoT. Seal Twisting...joy

[ipoststuff]

They could have increased sor damage to a level where it would be mandatory to switch before aoe. It would result in same rotation. I dont see the problem here?

People whine about how useless sor is. They change it. Now people whine about the gcds for switching.

[Lumineus]

I admit I don't know much about Shaman. Can Enhancement plan ahead and use that GCD to change "gears" while moving towards the adds, for example?

Well, Flame Shock and Lava Lash are both part of the normal rotation. Mostly you have to keep repositioning yourself so you can drop Magma Totem where it will actually have some effect, keep casting Fire Nova every other GCD, and cycle in Chain Lightning instead of Lightning Bolt. The problems Enhance presents are other DPS killing your Flame Shock target before you can spread it, overzealous tanks moving around too much making your totems useless, and Chain Lightining not being castable in motion. It also just takes SO LONG to get all this in play, largely due to shock cooldowns, that in any situation where you have a decent number of adds, they'll probably be dead before you get off more than one nova/CL combo.

Read the tooltip in the notes

My bad. AW is always on 20sec duration :P Its the sw that makes it 30sec

Actually it was ten seconds in the last two alpha builds.

Did they put it back to 2min cd? edit - hrm apparently not >:\

[Vanos27]

SoR is buffed to 50% up from 9%.

Would this make it mandatory to cast even if there were two mobs?

It would probably be extremely broken lol.

[Lumineus]

Considering how powerful Censure is, it was needed. I'm still not sure if it's worth using for fewer than four targets. But it does make Empowered Seals considerably more attractive. Seal of Justice remains unjustifiably weak, even moreso after this change.

[anaxie]

sor is buffed to 50% up from 9%.

Would this make it mandatory to cast even if there were two mobs?

It would probably be extremely broken lol.

whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaatttttttttttttt

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does 32% holy damage make up for the above Truth make up for the 45% physical loss on CS + it's HoL? is the question. Redic aoe seal now tho :3

[Kelemar]

I guess he just describes a "what if" situation. Notice the "would" form in his next two sentences. I don't think Blizzard would buff SoR to 50%.

Basically, what he meant to write was probably: "Imagine this: SoR is buffed to 50% up from 9% [...]"

If that's not the case, and Blizz did indeed buff SoR, well, then apologies.

EDIT: I don't see this buff anywhere... that's why I'm assuming it's just a "what if" situation.

[anaxie]

Divine storm needs to proc SoR plz

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Also i don't care what people say unless they give HotR some super OMFG mega aoe damage on it swapping is very unattractive since HoR is very underwhelming in the first place. As for swapping I don't even have SoR on my bars now. Shows how much i care about that seal.

[Kelemar]

So now with Inq, HoSalv, Blinding Light, GoAK and DA removed, they still think we have issues with button bloat and try to introduce this abomination. We are already getting rid of 6 (!) keybinds alone by the removal of the aforementioned spells, and they want to trim it even more by forcing swapping upon us. That's... like... where the heck do they get these ideas from.? As it is now, it's just stupid. It's totally fine now that these 6 spells are gone, we don't need more trimming! Just give us an interesting AoW mechanic and some kind of solution to the expansion-start-low-haste problem and I will guarantee that every Ret will be happy.

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Divine storm needs to proc SoR plz

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Also i don't care what people say unless they give HotR some super OMFG mega aoe damage on it swapping is very unattractive since HoR is very underwhelming in the first place. As for swapping I don't even have SoR on my bars now. Shows how much i care about that seal.

I have a /castsequence macro to quickly toggle between the two, but I hardly use it. I agree to your suggestions though.

[rad586]

It's not just about simplifying. It's about making the spec play in a way that's not too complex or too simple. Retribution Paladins don't have a whole lot in terms of rotational choices beyond choosing when to refresh Inquisition. So there's a good chance Ret was seen to be "too simple" and they chose to add a bit of complexity in how the transition from single-target to AoE is carried out. Many other specs have to change their rotations to do AoE, Retribution Paladins would have to spend a GCD on it.

Yeah, because using HotR and DS instead of CS and TV we are not changing our rotation at all! /sarcasm

With the current changes, not only we would have to change our rotations for AoE, we would also need to plan ahead to AoE and plan ahead to leave AoE mode and go into single target mode.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I think Inquisition still hasn't been accounted for in Alpha. Yeah I get you folks are tired of *Alpha is Alpha* but I aint banking on theatrics.

[Celebhil]

seal twisting needs to be something more meaningful and complimentry to the rotation than just its passive effect + crusaderstrike/hotr swap....

[rad586]

seal twisting needs to be something more meaningful and complimentry to the rotation than just its passive effect + crusaderstrike/hotr swap....

The real seal twisting has been dead since the removal of Seal of the Crusader and it's Judgment effect. What are they now trying to implement is an abomination compared to that. Atleast that's my opinion.

Even Empowered seals won't force us to do Seal Twisting unless they are going to change +attack speed buff to a +haste effect. Attack speed means nothing, that's why they've changed attack speed penalty on bubble to damage penalty so long ago.
All it will do is give us attack power buff in it's current form.

[Celebhil]

I agree.....its sad how in this and just about every other "bandaid slap" blizz has done to pallys its more often than not bad. Until crusader strike, divine storm and holy power came into existence (consecutively emerging every expac); the actual invention of new spells/tools for a paladin to use rather than tinkering with pre-existing stuff has been an improvement.