Poll: Are you impressed or disappointed in NATO's response?

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  1. #161
    The Lightbringer Keosen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taiphon View Post
    In practical terms, there is almost nothing Obama/NATO can do
    ofcourse they could, Ukraine government fell with violence from an rightist/neonazi party, it's essentially a coup d'état.
    NATO could at least have shown that they learned something from history, but yeah let's have a talk with the neo-nazis while drinking tea instead of kick the leaving shit out of them.
    The "Ukrainian Crisis" scheme and the roles each country and the NATO have is so clear that is not even interesting to interpret them.

  2. #162
    I am Murloc!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    NATO treaty, it is a legally binding requirement for us to come to their defense. Failing to would end US world power instantly.
    So.. optimism and a vague belief in some international laws that cannot be enforced?

  3. #163
    Herald of the Titans Irisel's Avatar
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    Making it more annoying for Russian politicians to do trade or travel... not really very impressed.

    Rule of Thumb: If the healer's HPS is higher than your DPS, you're doing it wrong.

  4. #164
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xarkan View Post
    So.. optimism and a vague belief in some international laws that cannot be enforced?
    The understanding that the U.S. will not render itself powerless on the world stage just to avoid fighting an easily defeated Russia. The President would be impeached if he failed to uphold the treat, which does have the force of law in the U.S.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkTZeratul View Post
    I really love how America just can't fucking win. When we intervene in Syria everyone tells us it's not our fucking problem and we shouldn't be sticking our noses where they don't belong. When we don't intervene in Ukraine, everyone bitches that we're sitting on our asses instead of getting involved.
    Here's a wild idea: Different people have different views, with enough people you'll get large complaints no matter what choice make.
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  6. #166
    Pit Lord Doktor Faustus's Avatar
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    Hmmm.

    A weak Obama regarding (more than likely) US/EU (at least) funded coup in Ukraine.

    Are we paving the way for a Republican President again?

    Not that it matters to the rest of the world, but for US voters the perception of change is very important.

    The rest of us carry on regardless, and it really does not matter who resides in the White House.

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tierbook View Post
    Speaking of England they have done even less than we have.... all of Europe seems to be being rather light on this
    And rightfully so. Really not worth it.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by RICH8472 View Post
    Not our fight, the Ukraine should have joined NATO if they wanted protection.
    Except the Budapest Memorandum assures Ukraine that the 'nuclear' states wont nuke it and will respect its territorial and economic sovereignty, which the USSR Russia clearly broke. It makes the whole thing a laughing stock puts a massive pallor on any future attempts to peacefully disarm a nuclear arsenal.
    Quote Originally Posted by xanzul View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    So if the states get together and work with the Legislative Branch to write an amendment to the federal constitution, you think the Judiciary (SCOTUS) could strike it down for being 'unconstitutional'?
    Uh...yes. Absolutely.

  9. #169
    Elemental Lord Flutterguy's Avatar
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    We've declined our invitation to the G8 Ball.

    Good job Obama. Strength of a lion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doktor Faustus View Post
    Hmmm.

    A weak Obama regarding (more than likely) US/EU (at least) funded coup in Ukraine.

    Are we paving the way for a Republican President again?

    Not that it matters to the rest of the world, but for US voters the perception of change is very important.

    The rest of us carry on regardless, and it really does not matter who resides in the White House.
    Only if the Republican party doesn't eat itself trying to get a candidate ready. Democrats already have a chosen candidate and the election is two years away. They won't even have much of a primary. It's insane.

  10. #170
    That is what you get for voting Obama.
    Now you are too scary to go to war.

  11. #171
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    Fracking and energy conservation in the US are hurting Russia badly. I wonder how much of the anti-fracking noise is actually covertly funded by Russia. (And ditto for anti-nuke activism in Germany.)
    How is fracking and conservation in the US hurting Russia? I am not sure if we get any oil from Russia and sure as hell not any natural gas. Most of their resources are sold to Europe. With Poland and Germany getting the largest share. Which is one reason Germany has refused to get involved much into the issue with the Ukraine. You will not see any sanctions coming from those two countries I think. None which are that punishing to the point Russia would cut off their supply to them at least. :P

  12. #172
    The U.S. response was hypocritical as usual. They are opposing the referendum in crimea to split from the ukraine because it's "unconstitutional" and violates "ukrainian sovereignty" forgetting of course this was exactly how the Ukraine split from the Soviet union. The difference of course was Ukraine leaving ussr was good for Nato expansion and Crimea leaving the Ukraine is bad for Nato expansion. There are no standards or principles at work in the U.S. response.

    And of course all the hysterical WWII analogies in the U.S. press are comedic. This is photo of Kiev from WWII it's nothing like that:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ru...ev_in_WWII.jpg

  13. #173
    Deleted
    Obama had a reaction? Because boring Putin to death over the phone isn't really a proper reaction to the Russians running wild again.

    The west is loosing it's influence across the world, the EU is utterly incapable of taking a stand on anything, and the USA imo has the weakest leadership it has ever had.

  14. #174
    Skroesec makes some really good points, but it appears that he fails to understand that all politics are domestic. The Obama administration isn't going to do any meaningful sanctions and certainly not any sanctions to the degree that you propose, Skroesec. In addition, what few sanctions they do pass, if any, will be repealed in the coming years (see the Georgian crisis). The European Union won't declare any sanctions either, because of their reliance on Russian trade (mostly energy). America COULD supplant Russia as the primary oil exporter to Europe, given our large stockpiles, but there is no way that our administration would go for such a plan. You put far too much trust that the West's competence and backbone.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    How is fracking and conservation in the US hurting Russia? I am not sure if we get any oil from Russia and sure as hell not any natural gas.
    It reduces US demand for oil produced elsewhere, and has aborted a nascent US market for imported liquefied natural gas. The US is also exporting an increasing quantity of refined petroleum products. More products made from natural gas, like plastics, are being made in the US from US gas, rather than overseas. The reduction in global energy demand has reduced global energy prices.
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  16. #176
    Deleted
    The reason most the EU countries are undecided is because of the economical consequences it could have in their trade relations with Russia. It is easy for the US to criticize or even sanction Russia as they have very little to lose.

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