Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Aberzombie]

Instead of just repeating that not flying somehow "gimps" you, do explain to us all how in a game where all power progression takes place in instanced content, how on earth you can "gimp" yourself at max level in open world content that doesn't have any current tier power progression rewards in an area where you can fly.

Instanced content gets "gimped" when those who do it a lot (solid Raiders, etc.) need mats to craft things their group will need, flasks, food buffs, el al). If they are using ground travel when free-form flight is available they will suffer a slower acquisition of those various mats and thus slower crafting of those things, and thus slower progression through that instanced content... versus those who use flight. So, any 'competition' between guilds about server firsts and such (yes, I know those are being removed but doesn't change the competative mindset much) automatically puts the advantage to the side that flies -- thus flight becomes "mandatory" and not using it is a needless "gimp".

There are others if you would just think about it instead of knee-jerk denying the possibility.

[Baconeggcheese]

Thankyou for proving that blizzard is designing content with no flying in mind, laying that argument to rest.

No shit? Did you not get the memo?

[Dormie]

Because a game with flight undeniably offers more game play options than a game without.

Only issue with this is is blizzard capable of delivering it without major overhaul of the system or significant delay.

So? It hasn't been bringing more game play options and when it comes to game play options there are a dozen more interesting things they could focus on. If they were to really take flight and do something unique with it that's one thing, but IMO it's just better gone than left in its current state.

[Elegant]

Because a game with flight undeniably offers more game play options than a game without.

Only issue with this is is blizzard capable of delivering it without major overhaul of the system or significant delay.

Wrong on both points. It offers less game play. This is a fact. If you simply fly to your quest objective skipping all mobs in between you are, without ANY doubt, removing game play from yourself (personal choice is now being removed, umad?) as you have simplified the task to a trivial one. Game play is defined as the tactical aspect of a game. There is NOTHING tactical about flying to from point A to point B and having NOTHING interfere with you. There was no strategy, no thought process, you just said I need to get to this location and you did, no consequences, no concerns. Brain dead.

Another point, you remove World PvP, the person you fight either runs away and flies off or respawns and flies off. If you were both on ground mounts you could catch them and continue to kick their ass; I personally do not care if you don't like that, it is a form of game play. This REMOVES game play as there is nothing you can do when the person has such a large respawn radius. Lastly, adding time to get to a destination is not a loss of game play, it's a loss of time.

Blizzard designs ALL expansion areas with flying in mind now. There would however be a giant invisible barrier around Tanaan Jungle as that area will probably be a 6.3 or 6.4 zone.

[Nayaga]

It talks about the ambiguity in it returning or not. The key is in the word POSSIBLY. Unless you can 100% tell me it's not returning then current news we have points to it being delayed. Keep up with the times.

You are clueless to the english definition of "delayed". Delayed =/= Never.

So fuck if Bashiok is a CM? He knows more about the current and future state of WoW than you do. I'd take his word over yours.

It's not my word, it's Tom Chilton and Alex Afrasiabi.

[Aberzombie]

I should also slide in that Blizzard have told us this.



This news is later than the OPs video, so it's more up to date and more accurate on the direction they're taking.

Saying it's a "reasonable point" where it would be available is not a declarative statement that that is when it will be available. It's a deceptive statement to keep the lid on controversy. Just like the next sentence that says "likely" prerequisite. That may not happen either; it isn't 'written in stone'. Blizz always covers their ass with that "things change" disclaimer. Nothing in that quote is hard fact, just wind.

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It talks about the ambiguity in it returning or not. The key is in the word POSSIBLY. Unless you can 100% tell me it's not returning then current news we have points to it being delayed. Keep up with the times.

It does not. Afrasiabi's "world w/o flight and players love it" followed by Chilton's "overwhelming" # of bad responses necessary to bring it back point to no flight at all unless "a miracle happens."

[Deleted]

Saying it's a "reasonable point" where it would be available is not a declarative statement that that is when it will be available. It's a deceptive statement to keep the lid on controversy. Just like the next sentence that says "likely" prerequisite. That may not happen either; it isn't 'written in stone'. Blizz always covers their ass with that "things change" disclaimer. Nothing in that quote is hard fact, just wind.

I can accept nothing is hard fact and I am fully aware that there has not been a 100% answer, all I'm saying is that there is definate ambiguity concerning what'll happen.

Trust me I know Bashiok's response is not confirmation. I'm just using it show that they're ambiguous but not towards one direction or the other.

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It does not. Afrasiabi's "world w/o flight and players love it" followed by Chilton's "overwhelming" # of bad responses necessary to bring it back point to no flight at all unless "a miracle happens."

If you're referring to the video then it's pretty unfair to use that as up to date information concerning there has been more news on the topic after that video was posted.

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You are clueless to the english definition of "delayed". Delayed =/= Never.

And you're still unable to 100% say that flying will never happen. For all intents and purposes until we're told it'll never happen, it's delayed. Thanks for arguing semantics though that's literally the dregs of an argument and brings nothing to the table. "waah the words you chose are bad". Seriously?

It's not my word, it's Tom Chilton and Alex Afrasiabi.

Tom Chilton and Alex Afrasiabi's outdated info that's been replaced by new info.

[CheeseSandwich]

So? It hasn't been bringing more game play options and when it comes to game play options there are a dozen more interesting things they could focus on. If they were to really take flight and do something unique with it that's one thing, but IMO it's just better gone than left in its current state.

Flying and flying mounts offer tonnes of gameplay options.

Running the numerous raids and dungeons for the 1% drop flying mounts.
Running the raids and dungeons for the meta acheev flying mount rewards.
Primary profession farming.
Secondary profession farming.
Exploring the rarer parts of the map.
Profession goals.
Leasure.
Efficiency regarding goals.
World boss farming, ease of access to and mount drops.
Rep hubs and grinds for exclusive flying mounts.
The many instance encounters that involve flying.

Not to mention how good of a seller it is on the blizz shop.

[Aberzombie]

Wrong on both points. It offers less game play. This is a fact. If you simply fly to your quest objective skipping all mobs in between you are, without ANY doubt, removing game play from yourself (personal choice is now being removed, umad?) as you have simplified the task to a trivial one. Game play is defined as the tactical aspect of a game. There is NOTHING tactical about flying to from point A to point B and having NOTHING interfere with you. There was no strategy, no thought process, you just said I need to get to this location and you did, no consequences, no concerns. Brain dead.

Another point, you remove World PvP, the person you fight either runs away and flies off or respawns and flies off. If you were both on ground mounts you could catch them and continue to kick their ass; I personally do not care if you don't like that, it is a form of game play. This REMOVES game play as there is nothing you can do when the person has such a large respawn radius. Lastly, adding time to get to a destination is not a loss of game play, it's a loss of time.

Blizzard designs ALL expansion areas with flying in mind now. There would however be a giant invisible barrier around Tanaan Jungle as that area will probably be a 6.3 or 6.4 zone.

ANd...another wpvp fanatic who tries to use the non-impact of flight on wpvp to justify flight's removal. Puhhhlleeeaasee. Long dead argument.

[Nayaga]

And you're still unable to 100% say that flying will never happen. For all intents and purposes until we're told it'll never happen, it's delayed. Thanks for arguing semantics though that's literally the dregs of an argument and brings nothing to the table. "waah the words you chose are bad". Seriously?.

It really isn't semantics. One =/= two. Delay =/= never.

On top of that you said we should go to another thread since what we were posting about that which wasn't covered in the title of the thread and you didn't even get the title correct.

Seriously, don't tell us where we can post if you can't comprehend simple words.

[Aberzombie]

If you're referring to the video then it's pretty unfair to use that as up to date information concerning there has been more news on the topic after that video was posted.

Doesn't matter how new it is if it's all we've got. Just like Blizz's long-term responses to the old "Vanilla Server!" rant -- some of their most "recent" denials are over 5 years old... but still 'relevant' because there has been no change.

Blizzcon established a baseline of "delay flight till 6.1, maybe add a quest".
Afriasabit changed that baseline to "no flight at all at ship, and maybe never at all"
Nothing any "Blue" has said has altered A.A.'s comment in the least, merely amplified the ambiguity with the "wait and see" b.s.
Chilton then extended A.A.'s baseline to include the need for an "everwhelming" # of players to demand it back, otherwise it's gone, just like A.A. lined out.

Whether flight is "delayed" or gone depends on what BLizz announces... and that announcement might or might not have anything to do with actual player response. We have no way to vet them so they could actually lie through their teeth, get what they obviously want and we can't gainsay it.

[Mask]

Part of an MMO like World of Warcraft (or Everquest before it, or countless other games now) is the fantasy of playing a character like what comes from fantasy novels or movies. You rarely read stories like that where people just fly around as though they had jetpacks all the time. There is a reason for that, it ruins the story! Flight works fine as a narrative for limited uses (like the eagles saving Frodo and Sam) but it completely circumvents all kinds of story arcs and travel related adventures.

I have to say gameplay is so much more fun and immersive when you have to hoof through terrain and dangers to get to an objective than when you get to just point your flying mount a direction and "afk autorun" until you can drop down from above.

Flying mounts as they exist in WoW today are freaking terrible. As soon as the novelty of them wore off in Burning Crusade I started to hate what they did to the game and haven't stopped hating it in these last 7 years. The longer they are disabled in WoD the better.

[Deleted]

It really isn't semantics. One =/= two. Delay =/= never.

On top of that you said we should go to another thread since what we were posting about that which wasn't covered in the title of the thread and you didn't even get the title correct.

Seriously, don't tell us where we can post if you can't comprehend simple words.

Getting a bit vitriolic in the face of repeating an incorrect mantra.

Of course a delay doesn't mean never, but we've not been told it'll never return. Unless we're told it'll never return and given the recent information we've been told then arguing that it's delayed is a reasonable argument. Dunno how many times I have to drill this into you.

[gamingmuscle]

Wrong on both points. It offers less game play. This is a fact. If you simply fly to your quest objective skipping all mobs in between you are, without ANY doubt, removing game play from yourself (personal choice is now being removed, umad?) as you have simplified the task to a trivial one. Game play is defined as the tactical aspect of a game. There is NOTHING tactical about flying to from point A to point B and having NOTHING interfere with you. There was no strategy, no thought process, you just said I need to get to this location and you did, no consequences, no concerns. Brain dead.

Everything that is possible in a game without flight is possible in a game with flight. Not everything possible in a game with flight is possible in a game without. So the set of possibilities for no flight is a subset and therefore smaller set than the set with flight.

You seem stuck on the badly designed content blizzard has delivered to us so far as the way it should be. LOL. Its bad design.

WPvP goes away when there are no people interested in being in the world. Flight has no significant impact. It makes escape currently easier, but it also makes engaging easier. You want wPvP create content people care enough about to continuously do.

[Deleted]

Whether flight is "delayed" or gone depends on what BLizz announces... and that announcement might or might not have anything to do with actual player response. We have no way to vet them so they could actually lie through their teeth, get what they obviously want and we can't gainsay it.

I'm fully aware of this and I've said that previously in the thread. Blizzard has already made their long term decision. What I'm saying is that until we know for sure then there is objective ambiguity in what'll actually happen. We don't know what decision they've actually made.

[Aberzombie]

If you simply fly to your quest objective skipping all mobs......{snip}

To date we can't fly until level cap so the only free-form flight to a 'quest objective' is post level cap... and thus trivial content one has either experienced already in some way, or which is effectively "meaningless" to character progression other than from a completists viewpoint (achieves, whatever). Doing such with flight can already be problematicly grindy or boring. Doing with w/o flight will be worse.

Game play is defined as the tactical aspect of a game. There is NOTHING tactical about flying to from point A to point B and having NOTHING interfere with you. There was no strategy, no thought process, you just said I need to get to this location and you did, no consequences, no concerns. Brain dead.

Describes Flightmaster and flightpoints to a "T". Why is freeform flight the target and not flightpoints? Bad argument.

[Somarlane]

1011 pages, geez.

Why not just have an instant travel option at this point instead of flying mounts? Flying around means you want to get to point B without interaction from the environment, npcs, or player characters. At that point... why aren't we just all teleporting to where to gon the map via a mouse click?

There's a reason why walking around in Skyrim just feels more adventurous than instant traveling to every single spot on the map.

Actually, Rift uses that instant-travel option. You speak with an innkeeper (iirc) and they'll teleport you to the location of a different innkeeper. Also, I take slight issue with your characterization of world flying and resulting lack of interaction. There do exist players, such as myself, who actually interact more with the environment because of world flying. We're very likely not the majority, so your point is still fair - I just don't want those like myself to be forgotten in the discussion.

[gamingmuscle]

So? It hasn't been bringing more game play options and when it comes to game play options there are a dozen more interesting things they could focus on. If they were to really take flight and do something unique with it that's one thing, but IMO it's just better gone than left in its current state.

You asked for a reason. I gave one. It does bring game play options, to say it doesn't is a blatant lie. You may not value those options. But it brings them.

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Actually, Rift uses that instant-travel option. You speak with an innkeeper (iirc) and they'll teleport you to the location of a different innkeeper. Also, I take slight issue with your characterization of world flying and resulting lack of interaction. There do exist players, such as myself, who actually interact more with the environment because of world flying. We're very likely not the majority, so your point is still fair - I just don't want those like myself to be forgotten in the discussion.

If i was to rely solely on fixed point transportation (FP/portals) I would undeniably interact with the world less. I am not going to back track halfway across a zone to see if a rare thing is still there =p

[Aberzombie]

You rarely read stories like that where people just fly around as though they had jetpacks all the time. There is a reason for that, it ruins the story! Flight works fine as a narrative for limited uses (like the eagles saving Frodo and Sam) but it completely circumvents all kinds of story arcs and travel related adventures.

Rarely? I've been reading scifi and fantasy for over 40 years and I think it's more common that you realize/will admit. Read the Pern novels recently? Just one example.
/facepalm

I have to say gameplay is so much more fun and immersive when you have to hoof through terrain and dangers to get to an objective than when you get to just point your flying mount a direction and "afk autorun" until you can drop down from above.

Immersion is subjective and not a valid basis for removing the feature. Gimping me to benefit you is bad. I am more than willing to let you play the game according to your own preferences and choices, using or not using and all of the features in the game at your own discretion.

You, however, seem determined to deny me that same courtesey. Says a great deal about you... none of it good.

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We don't know what decision they've actually made.

Heard the phrase "the handwriting's on the wall"?

Yeah, like that.

[Deleted]

Heard the phrase "the handwriting's on the wall"?

Yeah, like that.

I'm not willing to let pre-determined bias give me an absolute answer on a situation that currently is not absolute.