Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Edriden]

It took a nose dive because when a player logs on, they want to...you know...do shit that's gonna progress their character. WPVP doesn't do anything like that. It took a nose dive immediately after battlegrounds came out. That is to say, TM and SS were ghost towns, cause everyone was in a battleground farming honor because it was faster that way.

I wonder if you were ever actually playing during this period of the game because you are absolutely wrong about this. The whole TM vs. SS thing happened BECAUSE of battlegrounds (specifically AV). When AV came out you had to go to the portal to que (and I bet you don't even know battlegrounds have portals). And given the fact that AV was actually fun back then it was very popular. Since the battles typically lasted multiple days and you could easily lose yourself for hours in there so the que times could take a while. Thus, the Hillsbrad Foothills basically became its own battleground full of people waiting for a battleground. It had nothing to do with ganking lowbies and being a dick (although admittedly there were many casualties). It was actually best practice to AVOID killing lowbies because that would earn you a dishonorable kill. So what killed it?

The next patch when Blizzard added battlemasters that allowed you to que right in your main city. Sure some people still made it out there but it was nothing like it was and never will be again. This is an interesting thing in and of itself because everyone loved going to Hillsbrad for some epic battles yet as soon as Blizzard offered a choice between going out there to que or just simply que from your city.. the players pretty much unanimously chose the city option. Why? Because getting in to AV was the end goal and TM vs. SS was just the in-between stuff between them and the end goal. When Blizzard puts in mechanics that allow you to get to your end goal faster and skip the in-between players pretty much always do it regardless of how much they actually enjoy the in-between stuff (or claim to). And this is the same reason why players don't choose to ground mount when flying mounts are available. Does it make any sense? Not really. But its the reality of it. And completely disregarding reality when designing the game (or doing anything for that matter) is a damn foolish thing to do.

Another reality is that flight does have a negative impact on wpvp (even if it is a minor one compared to other things) but taking flight out is hardly going to resurrect it to its former glory. Nothing probably ever will. I really think its time to just put this argument to rest because it has nothing to do with this discussion on whether or not flying is going to return at some point in the xpac.

[Barkloud]

It's not on me, prove to me that they are facts. I've shown screenshots and videos of people with issues with flying before this all started. So there goes that second 'fact'. Bliz hasn't been misleading, they have been perfectly clear that they are undecided. Flying is not a pace of play slower, even beta people have said that.

- - - Updated - - -



According to you.
This is that part where fliers literally can't seem to comprehend how it changes the game.

Then Explain to me how the content in WoD is different from content we have seen in BC, Wrath, Cata and MoP?

[quras]

SNIP

I've been trying to stick to what we actually know and have been told.
SNIP

Wellhere are some facts for you.


We had 12 million subs with flying but we can't contribute all those subs to flying but you can make a good educated guess and know flying helped.

We lost 6million subs with flying but you can also make an educated guess we didn't lose those subs because of flying. Why? Because if the most die hard forum goers didn't quit, it's not hard to realize average gamers didn't either.

We lost subs when content took a nose dive in quality and quanitity and the story went right along with it. You can throw in age of game and competition and a number of other small factors but flying isn't the problem wow has been suffering from for the past 2 expansions.

It's a scapegoat for blizzard lack of quality and quantity of content and good design.

[Deleted]

"Everything official from Blizzard"

By all means link these official Blizzard responses... I have a need for you to put me in my place today. Or is it maybe... nah... I'm sure they exist... please link.

It's not my job to inform you of stuff you missed. Put on your big boy pants and try heading to google.
Or you could just try to explain why you are so sure that the devs intent to keep WoD flight free throughout the expansion.

[Wingspan]

NOTHING. Not shit. No one thinks it's a big deal but the loud minority.

Hmmm... the tense of the bolded statement is wrong if it was addressing the "What will happen when..." post that you quoted.


If you meant "No one will think..." then that would be rampant speculation at this point, because no one can say with certainty which way this is going to fall out (not even Blizzard, or they would have actually taken a definitive stance for the entire expansion, if not the remaining life of the game).


If you meant it as stated, then that is technically true, since both camps (pro and anti) are part of the small loud minority that make up forum goers. However this statement, while true, does not do much to support your theory on the outcome.

[MrGrimord]

It does change it changes radically. For the past seven years travel was not modified at all. Flying is a core mechanic. It is something people love and enjoy. It is a reward for leveling. People will be upset it is gone.

There is no reason for it to be removed.

Players: why was flying removed?

Blizzard: so we can develop an expansion designed for the ground.

Players: so how does the content differ from past expansions?

Blizzard: *crickets*

1. Flying mounts has never been a core mechanism. Looks like the definition of core mechanism isn't the same for everyone.
2. It's not something that everyones loves.
3. It's not really a kind of reward for hitting max cap. Well at least, I don't see it this way. It's more a feature for lazy people.
4. Yes, there are good reasons to keep it away from the game.

[Aehl]

1. Flying mounts has never been a core mechanism. Looks like the definition of core mechanism isn't the same for everyone.

Northrend and a load of other places say hi.

2. It's not something that everyones loves.

It isnt? Please tell me how many players in WOW dont have flying mounts?

3. It's not really a kind of reward for hitting max cap. Well at least, I don't see it this way. It's more a feature for lazy people.

Rightttt....and when people turn 18 and get their drivers license as a reward that makes them lazy too.....got it....

4. So yes, there are reasons to keep it away from the game

To extend content. To slow us down. To keep people playing longer. To keep people PAYING longer.

[Wingspan]

3. It's not really a kind of reward for hitting max cap. Well at least, I don't see it this way. It's more a feature for lazy people.

To be fair here, on-line gaming is pretty much designed with lazy people in mind. Outside of possibly watching television, there is almost no form of entertainment that demands less of a person than on-line gaming. In fact, successful computer gaming actually requires that you restrict most bodily movement outside of hand/arm/eyes... even television watching can be achieved while jogging on a treadmill (though few do).



So throwing around the "lazy" word in anything related to this hobby is kind of ironic, since it is key to the design and nearly mandatory.

[Deleted]

To be fair here, on-line gaming is pretty much designed with lazy people in mind. Outside of possibly watching television, there is almost no form of entertainment that demands less of a person than on-line gaming. In fact, successful computer gaming actually requires that you restrict most bodily movement outside of hand/arm/eyes... even television watching can be achieved while jogging on a treadmill (though few do).



So throwing around the "lazy" word in anything related to this hobby is kind of ironic, since it is key to the design and nearly mandatory.

.. Do you even read what you type, or at least have some thought about it, before you post it?

[Dormie]

Hmm you seem to be losing this argument.

lol, do I?

If you were passionate about it, you should be able to rattle off what no flight means to you, how it makes the game better for you, how you appreciate the world more and how the option of flying never once made you think of giving up the majestic splendour of riding into the sunset on your sea turtle.

First of all, I've gone over why I personally like no flying probably a dozen times in this thread. Second, the fact that people think using ground mounts primarily when flying is available truly don't get it. The very fact that you're able to fly makes riding on the ground redundant. It's just ignorant.

How all that dudes facts about flying were old hat arguments, cuz here are my rebuttals BAM BAM BAM, cuz his facts are wrong on the most basic of levels because of this reason. Not "sorry mr amnesia dude, you prove my facts to me". Yeah, kinda wobbly there mate.

I kind of did go over why they weren't facts. And telling me that I have to disprove unproven arguments is lolworthy. That's called a waste of time.

The fact that Blizz is undecided could possibly be construed as being misleading. How do they NOT know how they want to make there own game? If the no flight game is that awesome, who are they afraid of upsetting?

It could be construed as misleading if you are already looking at them negatively.

1. Northrend and a load of other places say hi.


2. It isnt? Please tell me how many players in WOW dont have flying mounts?



3. Rightttt....and when people turn 18 and get their drivers license as a reward that makes them lazy too.....got it....



4. To extend content. To slow us down. To keep people playing longer. To keep people PAYING longer.

1. That in no way makes flying a 'core mechanic'. Are core mechanics in the game limited in any sort of serious content? No.
2. Are you serious with that logic? Cmon...
3. It's not a reward for hitting max level, but I wouldn't say its for lazy people. Flying is in the game so people take advantage of it, whether they like it or not.
4. Oh look, more conspiracy theories.

This does not appear to be a rebuttal of any sort.


So I would guess that the same could be said for you.

Ridiculous statements shouldn't be dignified with rebuttals. A lot of lazy people play video games, but that's about as much as you can tie laziness to video games.

[Wingspan]

.. Do you even read what you type, or at least have some thought about it, before you post it?

This does not appear to be a rebuttal of any sort. An attempt at angering me perhaps, or maybe just something rhetorical to pass the time... but no real purpose or insight towards the topic.



So I would guess that the same could be said for you.

- - - Updated - - -

Ridiculous statements shouldn't be dignified with rebuttals. A lot of lazy people play video games, but that's about as much as you can tie laziness to video games.

What is ridiculous is a matter of opinion.


A common side-effect of most video games (WoW particularly) is suppressing movement on any but the most trivial levels (mouse clicks, key presses, eye scanning). It is a hobby that generally promotes/rewards limited physical activity. These are simply facts.


With that in mind, is it any small wonder that lazy people are drawn to gaming?


Stranger still is when people sitting in a chair (gaming) tell other people that are sitting in a chair that they are lazy. Irony at its finest.


Recent years have brought us things like Wii, which is generally regarded as fun but not serious gaming (your mileage may vary). Still, it is a step in a new direction where gaming does actually require something more than clicks and presses.

[Thimagryn]

It does change it changes radically. For the past seven years travel was not modified at all. Flying is a core mechanic. It is something people love and enjoy. It is a reward for leveling. People will be upset it is gone.

There is no reason for it to be removed.

Players: why was flying removed?

Blizzard: so we can develop an expansion designed for the ground.

Players: so how does the content differ from past expansions?

Blizzard: *crickets*

The content doesn't differ, the game atmosphere and general attitude to travel will. Yes, it becomes a burden to those who used fast travel methods for gathering or to quest, but this is a global change that affects everyone and will change how the content is consumed, not the actual content itself.

Herb runs take longer on ground mounts. Quests will not be aided/bypassed with flight. PVP server players will be more wary. This is how content differs from past expansions. It's a social change, for better or worse. It's a backstep in convenience that changes how content is consumed.

[Deleted]

Been eyerolling for 1116 pages now. I need some Optrex.

[khalltusk]

I wonder if you were ever actually playing during this period of the game because you are absolutely wrong about this. The whole TM vs. SS thing happened BECAUSE of battlegrounds (specifically AV)..

Just to correct something, the battle grounds pretty much killed off WPVP in hillsbrad. The honour system is what made hillsbrad the place to be prior to the battle grounds. The day of the patch the place still had a lot of PVP but no huge hordes of players fighting compared to the day previous. The city battle master change really killed it when that got changed though.

[Deleted]

Honestly - i do not really care about flying or non-flying, except for one thing, that bothers me a little - "World PVP players".
Flying really helps to ignore them, and now we are back to camping at low-level zones, ganking at low hp, 3-5 vs 1 fights and all the over "funny" stuff.

[Deleted]

This does not appear to be a rebuttal of any sort. An attempt at angering me perhaps, or maybe just something rhetorical to pass the time... but no real purpose or insight towards the topic.



So I would guess that the same could be said for you.

It was an honest question tbh. But i assume that you went back and read it, and realized how stupid everything you wrote was.

[Noybbs]

When you fly, you open map, turn the direction of your destinantion, and hit num lock. You should be able to estimate when your about there and alt tab back in or w/e and drop directly on your location.

When you use a flight path, you have to travel to a flight master, take the flight path, and then travel to your destination. If you can't see how the first example is more brainless and automatic than the second then I can't help you.

This is one of the most idiotic posts I've ever seen. No one can be this clueless, can they?

[Asmekiel]

This is one of the most idiotic posts I've ever seen. No one can be this clueless, can they?

He has been repeating himself for the past 500 pages.

[Barkloud]

It has been pretty quiet. Maybe the anti flyers have had a change of heart. There has been significant compelling evidence that flight is good for the game that is hard to argue with. It has been a good debate to date. Thoroughly enjoyable.

[Anzaman]

It has been pretty quiet. Maybe the anti flyers have had a change of heart. There has been significant compelling evidence that flight is good for the game that is hard to argue with. It has been a good debate to date. Thoroughly enjoyable.

Nah, just bored of repeating same things over and over, quite pointless actually.

Nevertheless, those who wish to continue the discussion are free to do so.