Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[gamingmuscle]

So, I have to wonder... if gathering speed has ZERO affect on Raid speed, why do so many people lack the willpower to avoid their flying mounts and just use ground mounts like the RP crowd?

My guess is because they actually prefer convenience, over their romanticized ideal. The fun of ground travel isn't worth the loss of convenience to them.

[beanman12345]

So, I have to wonder... if gathering speed has ZERO affect on Raid speed, why do so many people lack the willpower to avoid their flying mounts and just use ground mounts like the RP crowd?

don't ya know, people are paying their money for efficiency, not fun.

[zEmini]

Flying kills the feel and immersion of the game/world for multiple reasons. If there is flying everyone will use it. It's that simple. There is no choice if flying is enabled. People want to play their characters to the fullest of their ability, from using a sprint or heroic leap to move just that little bit faster to using a glider from a 10 foot tall cliff. If flying is enabled, you'd have to not be playing to your fullest ability to use your ground mount. Thus removing the fun.

Nice generalizations there. Sounds like you are the one without self control.

What may be fun and immersive for you is nothing more than an opinion....And a lot of use feel the exact opposite. At least on our side we can have both.

[Penguintamer]

Flying sucks

[-Superman-]

"A few people are willing to do something, why aren't everyone willing to?"

Christ this thread should be documented for Game Design courses.

It's a legitimate question. Much like no flight. "A few people (designers) like the idea of no flight, so why shouldn't everyone?" I don't know? Maybe because 8 years of speed, convenience, and freedom should not be excluded based on "reasons". Aside from the point A to B argument, and being out of reach for PvP (not my concern on PvE and RP realms), there is no actual, legitimate excuse to leave it disabled once the content is no longer current. Come 6.1, everything we are doing right now will be old hat... VERY, old hat. Particularly for those of us "lucky" enough to spend 3 months in the Beta.

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My guess is because they actually prefer convenience, over their romanticized ideal. The fun of ground travel isn't worth the loss of convenience to them.

Convenience isn't truly lost though. They are only slowed by 52%, much like right now, and they are hardly at ANY disadvantage given the resources of the Garrisons.

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don't ya know, people are paying their money for efficiency, not fun.

Sounds like efficiency to some IS fun, so not sure how asking to have that efficiency removed/delayed helps anyone. With travel time slowed by 52%, they've effectively added double their playtime to complete the same tasks. Logic.

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Flying sucks

Yes. Speed, freedom, and convenience must be just horrid.

[Ordinator]

Never leaving my house to go outside is also pretty convenient, but not much fun.

Based on your argument, we may as well just reduce the entire game down to "press a button and win", then uninstall. That's not what an mmo is about though. It's not about speed unless you are a botter. No doubt, every single botter and gold seller is freaking out about no flying - while most of the player base is loving it.

Agreed. Their only argument of "I need the convenience" is so weak.. i just don't get how this is even an issue anymore. Especially after the largely positive turnout.

[-Superman-]

Agreed 100%. So do about 3mm new or returning players.

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Never leaving my house to go outside is also pretty convenient, but not much fun.

Based on your argument, we may as well just reduce the entire game down to "press a button and win", then uninstall. That's not what an mmo is about though. It's not about speed unless you are a botter. No doubt, every single botter and gold seller is freaking out about no flying - while most of the player base is loving it.

Quite the strawman ya got there. This is an MMO-RPG. Has been for 10 years. 8 of that 10 years has offered expansion that took you to the skies on the back of a Dragon, or other choice beast or machine, in an effort to soar through the skies on your way to your next great adventure. They opened Pandora's box when it came to flight in Cataclysm. Had they left it only 70 (TBC), 77 (Wrath) 83 (Cata - specific zones) and 90 (Pandaria), this would be a non-issue.

Now they are trying to reopen the box and push things back inside. Not sure how they plan to pull that off without some kinks.

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Agreed. Their only argument of "I need the convenience" is so weak.. i just don't get how this is even an issue anymore. Especially after the largely positive turnout.

"I need the convenience" is the only reason anti-fliers even claim they use flight. Also, EVERY launch has a positive turnout, so that is hardly a usable statistic.

[NutellaCrepe]

Quite the strawman ya got there. This is an MMO-RPG. Has been for 10 years. 8 of that 10 years has offered expansion that took you to the skies on the back of a Dragon, or other choice beast or machine, in an effort to soar through the skies on your way to your next great adventure. They opened Pandora's box when it came to flight in Cataclysm. Had they left it only 70 (TBC), 77 (Wrath) 83 (Cata - specific zones) and 90 (Pandaria), this would be a non-issue.

Now they are trying to reopen the box and push things back inside. Not sure how they plan to pull that off without some kinks.

Not sure what makes you say that, they enabled flight in Azeroth, how are they trying to close Pandora's box when you can still fly in Azeroth? Nothing is ever going to stop you from flying everywhere you could fly before. Technically, they didn't take away anything that was already there, they only chose to ommit flight in this new content.

[Ordinator]

They opened Pandora's box when it came to flight in Cataclysm. Had they left it only 70 (TBC), 77 (Wrath) 83 (Cata - specific zones) and 90 (Pandaria), this would be a non-issue.

Now they are trying to reopen the box and push things back inside. Not sure how they plan to pull that off without some kinks.

There's no Pandora's box here at all. You just want there to be by crying wolf over and over and over and over. And well.. you know how that story goes.

"I need the convenience" is the only reason anti-fliers even claim they use flight. Also, EVERY launch has a positive turnout, so that is hardly a usable statistic.

It's had the largest subscription jump of any expansion release.. and it seems most people are enjoying the no flight. So yea.. largely positive turnout.

[-Superman-]

Not sure what makes you say that, they enabled flight in Azeroth, how are they trying to close Pandora's box when you can still fly in Azeroth? Nothing is ever going to stop you from flying everywhere you could fly before. Technically, they didn't take away anything that was already there, they only chose to ommit flight in this new content.

The idea is pushing the feature back under wraps when it was already fully unwrapped in prior iterations. Not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp. Flight was unleashed in TBC, Wrath, Cata, and Pandaria. Now, it is being re-leashed in Draenor. Big mistake from my perspective.

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It's had the largest subscription jump of any expansion release.. and it seems most people are enjoying the no flight. So yea.. largely positive turnout.

It's called NOSTALGIA. TBC players, like myself, wanted to return to see Velen, Khadgar, and the rest of the gang to see how things were in this AU. Anyone who assumes the surge is NOT related to Nostalgia would be pretty foolish given that the game is 10 years old and the ONLY thing to bring back players is the promise of the good ole days.

[Ordinator]

The idea is pushing the feature back under wraps when it was already fully unwrapped in prior iterations. Not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp. Flight was unleashed in TBC, Wrath, Cata, and Pandaria. Now, it is being re-leashed in Draenor. Big mistake from my perspective.

Yet.. nobody cares.

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It's called NOSTALGIA. TBC players, like myself, wanted to return to see Velen, Khadgar, and the rest of the gang to see how things were in this AU. Anyone who assumes the surge is NOT related to Nostalgia would be pretty foolish given that the game is 10 years old and the ONLY thing to bring back players is the promise of the good ole days.

I think 3 million people heard there won't be flying this expansion and resubbed. See i can speculate too.

[-Superman-]

Yet.. nobody cares.

You must, otherwise you would not be here pushing back so hard.

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I think 3 million people heard there won't be flying this expansion and resubbed. See i can speculate too.

Now you're just being obtuse and inflamatory. Either stick to the topic or add me to ignore.

[Granyala]

It's had the largest subscription jump of any expansion release.. and it seems most people are enjoying the no flight. So yea.. largely positive turnout.

Waaay too soon to judge. Blizzard will know it a month after the addon release.
We will get the data in the next quarterly reports.

Until then, all "arguments" using sub numbers are pure speculation and no arguments at all.

[-Superman-]

Waaay too soon to judge. Blizzard will know it a month after the addon release.
We will get the data in the next quarterly reports.

Until then, all "arguments" using sub numbers are pure speculation and no arguments at all.

Thank you for understanding that and helping others understand it also.

[Radish Spirit]

Anyone who assumes the surge is NOT related to Nostalgia would be pretty foolish given that the game is 10 years old and the ONLY thing to bring back players is the promise of the good ole days.

Or maybe there are people who thought the good ole days were fucking boring and awful, and picked up WoD because it's something different and very much not the old game?

I super love calling out people for making assumptions while making an enormous, baseless assumption of your own.

[Ordinator]

Now you're just being obtuse and inflamatory. Either stick to the topic or add me to ignore.

Not sure how I deviated from the topic?.. and how am I supposed to knock over all your straw men if i ignore you?

[-Superman-]

Or maybe there are people who thought the good ole days were fucking boring and awful, and picked up WoD because it's something different and very much not the old game?

I super love calling out people for making assumptions while making an enormous, baseless assumption of your own.

If people thought TBC was boring, they would not be here. All we are doing is helping the Draenei on the non-corrupt version of Draenor. The glued back together draenor. The same races, beasts, and pretty much zones of outlands (Draenor). This has nostalgia written all over it. And, just to really put it into perspective, there have been tons of hints dropped that the Burning Legion returns in 7.0 making the fight that much more like TBC. Will likely also introduce Tinkers and Demon Hunters... two classes we are already starting to see signs of. Maybe, if you spent less time power leveling, and more time seeing the signs, the nostalgia would have been more obvious. The only differences between Draenor and Outlands is Flight and Fel energy.

[Granyala]

Sure there is some nostalgic quality to WoD.
As someone who started in TBC and still dearly loves Outland I can see the little tidbits they added here and there like mini Murmur as a rare <3.

Probably also a reason why no fly doesn't really bother me that much atm.

[Ordinator]

If people thought TBC was boring, they would not be here. All we are doing is helping the Draenei on the non-corrupt version of Draenor. The glued back together draenor. The same races, beasts, and pretty much zones of outlands (Draenor). This has nostalgia written all over it. And, just to really put it into perspective, there have been tons of hints dropped that the Burning Legion returns in 7.0 making the fight that much more like TBC. Will likely also introduce Tinkers and Demon Hunters... two classes we are already starting to see signs of. Maybe, if you spent less time power leveling, and more time seeing the signs, the nostalgia would have been more obvious. The only differences between Draenor and Outlands is Flight and Fel energy.

What an awful generalization. Really don't think I need to elaborate though because you're treading dangerously into 'off-topic' territory that you just warned me about a couple posts ago.

[NutellaCrepe]

The idea is pushing the feature back under wraps when it was already fully unwrapped in prior iterations. Not sure why this is a difficult concept to grasp. Flight was unleashed in TBC, Wrath, Cata, and Pandaria. Now, it is being re-leashed in Draenor. Big mistake from my perspective.

Logically, no. Think about it this way: TBC and WotLK had flight while 1-60 content did not. People wanted it, but they didn't get it until another expansion altogether. Your argument would make sense if the second TBC had released, all of azeroth was promised flight, same with WotLK but it wasn't the case. They had been selective with unlocking flight, even after introducing it in WoW. Yet again, they are simply being selective.

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If people thought TBC was boring, they would not be here. All we are doing is helping the Draenei on the non-corrupt version of Draenor. The glued back together draenor. The same races, beasts, and pretty much zones of outlands (Draenor). This has nostalgia written all over it. And, just to really put it into perspective, there have been tons of hints dropped that the Burning Legion returns in 7.0 making the fight that much more like TBC. Will likely also introduce Tinkers and Demon Hunters... two classes we are already starting to see signs of. Maybe, if you spent less time power leveling, and more time seeing the signs, the nostalgia would have been more obvious. The only differences between Draenor and Outlands is Flight and Fel energy.

Hm, you seem to focus on an idea so much that you are blindly dismissing credit where it is due. The location is the same, sure, but Draenor looks nothing like Outlands enough to call it a reskin, it was entirely remodeled and re-worked with changes so drastic that locations subtly hint at outlands but nothing more. It would be like saying that any forest-like area throughout the game is but a reskin of another forest like areas. It's a story of the same place at an entirely different time.

I get that you have beeg with the fact that you aren't exploring a whole new land, and that is fine, but give credit where credit is due, because keeping a theme and creating something entirely new from it doesn't amount to "the same thing aside from flight and fel energy."