Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Deleted]

ooooor... maybe the majority is fine with no flying and they have no reason to make big changes to their plans?

I dont think blizzard knows what the majority wants.

They never ask their customers what they would like.

[MoanaLisa]

I dont think blizzard knows what the majority wants.

I don't think so either but often enough many of us have asked them to design the game they want and then stand by it. That's not always going to work out to everyone's liking. No matter how I feel about this it would be good to see them do that and even better if they cleared the air entirely about their intentions going forward.

[Deleted]

I don't think so either but often enough many of us have asked them to design the game they want and then stand by it. That's not always going to work out to everyone's liking.

Right. At the end its all about preferences, and everyone has to decide if he likes what blizzard has to offer.

Blizzard decides how the game evolves, not majorities or minorities.

[Fullmetal89]

Heh just a couple of hours and already a 107 page thread in the US forums.

I hope it blows up in Blizzards faces, but I'm still not convinced that they will cave.

They will once the subs begin to drop, money trumps all for Blizz.

They are either sticking to no flying because Tannan Jungle wont be accessible on 6.1 or they just want to see how long the can get away with slowing people down by keeping them grounded. Either way this wont last, and I can guarantee you that one of the selling points of the next expansion will be the emphasis on flying. Just like how they flip-flop on every god damn expansion. This is Blizzard we are talking about, they are well known for their hypocrisy.

I don't think so either but often enough many of us have asked them to design the game they want and then stand by it. That's not always going to work out to everyone's liking. No matter how I feel about this it would be good to see them do that and even better if they cleared the air entirely about their intentions going forward.

I have to agree with this. I would prefer them to just openly tell us their intention from the beginning. Instead of sidestepping the questions and misdirecting people constantly. Even if I don't agree with their decision it's their game. I can choose to not play it, but for them to keep the player base hanging on by feeding us misinformation or false promises they never intend to keep. I rather they tell us the truth from the start, that way I know what to expect.

[MasterHamster]

I wouldn't mind an expansion where flying capabilities where really pushed to offer a quest experience we've never experienced before.
For better or worse, WoD is not that.

Flying has NO GAMEPLAY. At all.
Some try to argue they wouldn't mind anti-air cannons, monstrous kaliris and the like, but it's a lie. You don't want any risks to be dismounted. You just want the fastest possible route to a destination you've chosen.

I see flying similar to noclip in Minecraft. It's something that drastically changes how one views the world around them. The combat is "the same", but being allowed to disconnect from all forms of adversity... that is nothing but terrible design.

Maybe in a perfect world flying could be more than disconnection. But when it is nothing but convenient travel, it isn't.'

They will once the subs begin to drop, money trumps all for Blizz.

Stop relying on subs to prove you right about this topic.
I could argue that Storm Peaks and Icecrown in WotLK was the reason subs stopped steadily increasing and no one could "prove me wrong". Of course it is wrong because I can only point out the correlation and no causation.

Subs will drop in the next quarter because WoD, while it has been very capable of making people try it again, thanks to 90 boost and whatnot, one would have to be seriously deluded to think a majority of these will stay subbed.

[Deleted]

Flying has NO GAMEPLAY. At all.

Based on that logic any kind of traveling would have to be removed, as it has no gameplay at all.

What WoW would need is a fun way to travel. And that surely will not change if you remove the most convenient implementation only.

I recently played Far Cry 4. It got flying. It got vehicles. And the operating of those vehicles is really funny, and includes "mounted combat", if it is comparable in any way.

[MasterHamster]

Based on that logic any kind of traveling would have to be removed, as it has no gameplay at all.

Even when traveling by ground, running past "trivial" mobs that can't kill me, and terrain I've seen before, I'm still adjusting my path due to that terrain and mobs depending on proximity so no.
Ground travel is infinitely more immersive than flight travel.
1>0.

[gamz247]

Flying has NO GAMEPLAY. At all.

It's not impossible to add.

You don't want any risks to be dismounted. You just want the fastest possible route to a destination you've chosen.

I suppose you didn't build and upgrade a stable in your garrison, because you enjoy being dazed by mobs that hit you.

[MasterHamster]

It's not impossible to add.


I suppose you didn't build and upgrade a stable in your garrison, because you enjoy being dazed by mobs that hit you.

Lol no, Stables is a waste of a plot imo.

Can I get frustrated when I get dazed? Of course. But since getting dazed is 100% my own fault, it's not like I feel compelled to cry on the forums about it.

[DeadmanWalking]

People need to stop assuming they belong to the majority and the minority are the people who disagree with thier OPINION. It's a strawmans argument with no basis in reality. Blizzard doesn't listen to majorities or minorities, it decides how people should be playing the game but that does not mean they don't make mistakes like they did with how they implemented dailies in Mists. They implemented the dailies as they felt the game should be designed and they reversed thier decisions based on thier own data.

This isn't a discussion that any one forum user can win. We can throw opinions and ideals off each other all day but if Blizzard decides to change or not change it won't have anything to do with being a majority or minority voice.

[gamz247]

Lol no, Stables is a waste of a plot imo.

It trivializes travel, though. Shouldn't it be removed?

[Drytoast]

It trivializes travel, though. Shouldn't it be removed?

Naw it's fine, you are still going up that slightly sloping path...

duuuuuurrrp!

[Deleted]

Even when traveling by ground, running past "trivial" mobs that can't kill me, and terrain I've seen before, I'm still adjusting my path due to that terrain and mobs depending on proximity so no.

You even can run straight thru elite mobs, and wont be killed. Combat in world of warcraft is avoidable, no matter which way of traveling you use.

And if its about immersion.. Manual flying is way more immersive than flight pathes, as you can immerse into the content whenever you like.. while flight pathes take you out of the game.

[Veritus7]

When will people get it through their heads that Blizzard removed flying because of design philosophy, not because of player preference?

Before I go on, let me make one extremely clear: the only REAL argument that pro-flying stands on is mere precedence. We've done it this way before, why now? People seemed to like it. Why should we do it any other way? Just because it has been this way and people like out doesn't give any real basis why it should stay. Precedence, as an argument is used too often without any thought why.

Now that that's out of the way let's go back to what I was saying. Blizzard wants to design content. Playable, fun content. With flying being a consideration, Blizzards capability to design world content is EXTREMELY limited. I suppose you could say they could do stuff to keep flying limited, but that means a lot of design time on RESTRICTING a feature instead of time spent on fun content. Three dimensional space is extremely hard to design limitations like that, there's always another way around whatever you're facing. See: Vashj'ir

So when Blizzard wants to develop world content that's fun and engaging, what are their options then? Provide some somewhat fun content while having lots of penalties for flying, provide content everyone can ignore by flying over it, or cut flying altogether and spend time making the world content engaging? I think it's not quite as simple as that, but simplified down as much as possible, I think those three options pretty well cover it.

So then, at this point of view, it is clear it is not about player preference at all. There's no argument for "well if you don't like flying, then don't fly!" because it's not about what the player wants. "Well why should I have to be forced to do content I don't want to do?!" ...why are you playing this game then? It's like saying I want to play Mss Effect, but I just want to do the story and conversations and not the first person shooter part. Never in any game ever have you really got to pick and choose the content you want to do. Wow and some other MMOs are special in that you get to choose where to go and who you kill and whether you do pvp and pve, but ultimately the presentation of the content is not up to you. "But we've been able to pick and choose more before!" And that's you falling back on precedent to attempt to have a rational argument. There ARE, in fact, flaws with flying, too many to outweigh any real advantages it might have over flying in a DESIGN sense. The only way to fix those flaws is to change something.

And change is apparently scary for some people.

[Fullmetal89]

Stop relying on subs to prove you right about this topic.
I could argue that Storm Peaks and Icecrown in WotLK was the reason subs stopped steadily increasing and no one could "prove me wrong". Of course it is wrong because I can only point out the correlation and no causation.

Subs will drop in the next quarter because WoD, while it has been very capable of making people try it again, thanks to 90 boost and whatnot, one would have to be seriously deluded to think a majority of these will stay subbed.

Is not about proving my point or not, just look at past expansions. While I don't think flying will drastically reduce subs, I can assure you it will affect a lot of people. The majority of players enjoy flying to some extent and most still think it's coming on 6.1. Once they realize they will basically have to be grounded the whole expansion the complaints will intensify just like they did with MoP and dailies. Blizzard is a business, if they believe the model they are using is not as profitable then changes will be made and they will start listening more intently. All it takes is an overwhelming amount of complains on the issue for the company to change their mind. Once again, I'm not saying flying will drop their subs by millions but it will definitely affect them and in the long term they want to keep players playing. So if people really want flying again you bet they will deliver.

[MasterHamster]

It trivializes travel, though. Shouldn't it be removed?

The moment the stables allows your ground mount to run through physical objects, notify me and I will propose it's removal or change.

Naw it's fine, you are still going up that slightly sloping path...

duuuuuurrrp!

Oh? Too often do I hear when someone, somehow, manages to require 15 minutes to reach the goal on that slope.
Pretty embarassing

Is not about proving my point or not, just look at past expansions. While I don't think flying will drastically reduce subs, I can assure you it will affect a lot of people. The majority of players enjoy flying to some extent and most still think it's coming on 6.1. Once they realize they will basically have to be grounded the whole expansion the complaints will intensify just like they did with MoP and dailies. Blizzard is a business, if they believe the model they are using is not as profitable then changes will be made and they will start listening more intently. All it takes is an overwhelming amount of complains on the issue for the company to change their mind. Once again, I'm not saying flying will drop their subs by millions but it will definitely affect them and in the long term they want to keep players playing. So if people really want flying again you bet they will deliver.

I could easily just claim that no-flight makes people subconsciously appreciate world content more because it doesn't become instantly trivial the moment they hit 100.

Some will cancel because of no-flight. Some will remain subbed because the game doesn't become a sandbox the moment they hit 100.
There will be no exodus of subs directly related to the loss of ridiculously convenient personal travel.

[Chain Chungus]

It trivializes travel, though. Shouldn't it be removed?

Definitely. Everything wrong with flying now applies to ground mounts too.

Don't even get me started on the Nagrand mount.

[DeadmanWalking]

I'm pretty sure the reason they haven't given any stance on the subject yet is because they are still playing it by ear. This flying debacle is going to upset people no matter what Blizz decides on it, so they are probably trying to wait it out and see which side of this argument ends up being the 'majority' and go with that side, so as to piss off the least amount of ppl as possible.

The leveling content is still fresh, its only been 3 weeks or so. Once we get a few months into this expansion I think feelings will change. Once people clear the questing zones with the majority of thier alts the world will feel dead again unless Blizzard can put some compelling content in that gives us a reason for leaving the garrison more often than just 1 world boss and an apexis daily zone. I am already tired of flight points. If I am on a flight point my eyes are in another monitor and not immersed in wow.

[Deleted]

Now that that's out of the way let's go back to what I was saying. Blizzard wants to design content. Playable, fun content. With flying being a consideration, Blizzards capability to design world content is EXTREMELY limited.

Only because they lack of ideas and even the wish to add flying to the game itself as a vital gameplay component.

Infact, you could create a lot of content based on flying mounts. You could create game components based on flying mounts. You could create air combat, as a new way to fight.

The only thing that keeps blizzard from doing that is a design paradigm. And the wish to reduce their development effort.

Blizzards devs are the victim of a tunnel vision.. "cant.. create.. ground quests". While there is a way more powerful game mechanic they could use to build a lot of content with.

Unfortunately they dont take the chance. They rather get rid of a great source of innovation just because they have to design content with flying in mind, which probably would need more effort.

[gamz247]

The moment the stables allows your ground mount to run through physical objects, notify me and I will propose it's removal or change.

Last time I checked, flying mounts couldn't pass through objects, either.