Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Errtu]

Or give the devs the appropriate feedback, so they know what peeps think about certain game decisions?

After all, the ultimate purpose of a forum is to DISCUSS stuff. That includes opinions, fact checking and yes: the occasional guy venting (within reason ofc).

Telling people to STFU and adapt is a possibility, telling them that in a forum is misguided. You don't like the topic or consider it irrelevant? You are welcome to leave the thread at any time.

I agree that it looks like Blizzards mind is set, which is why I don't believe that unlimited flight will ever make a comeback. Or maybe it will, Blizzard pulled 180°s before... who knows what they think anyway.

again discussion!=whining

saying I don't like no flying because of this, this and this is one thing, whining like a baby on forums is another

[rebecca191]

A question for the "pro-flight" crowd.

Is there any amount of convenience or changes to the game you can envision that would make the removal of flight acceptable?

Nope because personally I hate the feel of the game without flying, every time there was a no fly zone I had a very negative feeling about the game while I was there, it just feels lousy being glued to the ground, and totally kills immersion and fun for me. Flying has always been one of the most awesome things in the game to me. I can't imagine anything that would ever be an acceptable replacement for flying for me. I'd rather just not play at all if I can't fly. I couldn't even stand to level an alt in Pandaria because being on the ground was so terrible.

[Errtu]

Nope because personally I hate the feel of the game without flying, every time there was a no fly zone I had a very negative feeling about the game while I was there, it just feels lousy being glued to the ground, and totally kills immersion and fun for me. Flying has always been one of the most awesome things in the game to me. I can't imagine anything that would ever be an acceptable replacement for flying for me. I'd rather just not play at all if I can't fly. I couldn't even stand to level an alt in Pandaria because being on the ground was so terrible.

yeah, totally, like in real life.

[Deleted]

Yes, summoning / Hearthstone / Flightpath would fall into the same category of convenience of circumventing the actual ground travel.
Avianas gives you pretty much all the control you need to get where you want unless that destination is too far away.

I didn't say that it's identical to unlimited flight, but it is close enough to call out no-fly fanboys (not necessarily you specifically) on their hypocrisy.

That's the key point. "destination is too far away". Just how close do you have to be to a destination, in your case Highmaul, to use the item effectively?

I used the feather from Highmaul to see what my radius is to make the feather effective. This is how far I got.



I normally fly to Rizlit's Holdfast for Highmaul, so maybe I can cut down some flight time by flying to Yrel's Watch and using the feather. However, I'm still flying from either Ashran or my garrison to get to Nagrand and to highmaul. Just exactly how much time am I saving here compared to how much time I'm actually spending on a flight path? How much of that time saved is enough to make the claim that with the advent of people using Aviana's feather it's enough to justify an apt comparison to flying?

Aviana's Feather, for all intents and purposes, isn't flying and it isn't really even that close. It does alleviate some travel time but given its limited control and decitedly limited distance compared to flight path spacing it's not really worth bringing up as a key argument.

[Cassidin]

Again I go back to the loot fiasco a while back. That was such a big deal in the minds of many players that Blizzard had no choice to change it back to Personal loot. If not being able to fly was such an issue for the players as all the pro flyers believe then changes would have been made or are upcoming soon.

Not really... two totally different things. The Loot issue was easy to make people happy with - bring back personal loot. The flying issue is not so easy to sort out because their whole structure of WoD is around no flying. If they suddenly gave flying now - then the content would be basically over. There is no max level content apart from raids and daily crystals. Sure there is treasures and rares - but almost all of those are now useless to a large number of players. There is no point going out into the world to farm mats - which was another thing people did at max level - because they have killed the mat market with the garrison. They basically cant give flying back now - or a lot more people will start to realize how empty this expansion really is.

[Granyala]

Then you realize there isn't much discussion to be had on the topic as long as you hold that stance right?

The game... like all games... is inherently repetitive, so as long as world of warcraft is still world of warcraft there is nothing anyone could say to change your stance on this topic...

I'm pretty sure that Blizzard can do a lot better than the piss poor job they did with WoD max level content.
Make the world interesting and to a degree dynamic and I might miss flight a lot less.

- - - Updated - - -

Aviana's Feather, for all intents and purposes, isn't flying and it isn't really even that close.

You don't WANT to understand, do you?

The time and hassle you save is not the issue here (and is minimal at best).
It's the fact that you don't have to RIDE ON THE GROUND from the FP of your choice that makes Avianas comparable to flight.

Going: "I LOOOVE ground travel, no flight is sooo awesome" and then using Avianas to reach Highmaul instead of RIDING there IS hypocritical.

If you are incapable of grasping that, I don't know how to make it any more obvious.

[Deadite]

I didn't say that it's identical to unlimited flight, but it is close enough to call out no-fly fanboys (not necessarily you specifically) on their hypocrisy.

You don't need to call them out on their hypocrisy. 99% of the people that think flying is the devil will be the first ones to hop on the old flying mount in 0.234 seconds if they become available again. They are all hypocrites. I would wager good money that most of them had no opinion on flying one way or the other untill blizzard made up their minds for them.

[Granyala]

They basically cant give flying back now - or a lot more people will start to realize how empty this expansion really is.

Very true, because many are still blinded by the "200 treasures, everywhere" which they would collect in an hour were flight to be enabled..

[Cassidin]

"facebook game" nice 1

Logging in every couple of hours to send your followers back out again and re-feed work queues...... seems very much like facebook to me.

[Baconeggcheese]

I'm pretty sure that Blizzard can do a lot better than the piss poor job they did with WoD max level content.
Make the world interesting and to a degree dynamic and I might miss flight a lot less.

So are you changing your stance now? Are you saying you can envision changes that would make the removal of flight acceptable?

[Deleted]

You don't WANT to understand, do you?

The time and hassle you save is not the issue here (and is minimal at best).
It's the fact that you don't have to RIDE ON THE GROUND from the FP of your choice that makes Avianas comparable to flight.

Going: "I LOOOVE ground travel, no flight is sooo awesome" and then using Avianas to reach Highmaul instead of RIDING there IS hypocritical.

If you are incapable of grasping that, I don't know how to make it any more obvious.

Well you are right. I don't understand. I'm not too sure where you're trying to take this logic.

This isn't some sort of phobia for the ground of philia for the air. Is using a flight path hypocritical? They're not traversing across the ground. Is taking a portal hypocritical? They're not traversing across the ground. Even in your example of Highmaul in order for me to get there from Rizlit's holdfast I literally made a beeline towards the path outside Highmaul and did two micro readjustments. It maybe required me to press space bar to jump over some rocks but that's literally all there was to it.

I genuinely don't know where you're trying to go with this "ground phobia" approach.

Also, you're implying that the hypocrisy is derived from using Aviana's Feather on cooldown constantly. Personally I've only used it about three times. Once to see what it actually does and go "oh that was underwhelming", and twice to do the test I just did there. Maybe under some sort of convoluted approach there are some individuals who use Aviana's Feather in a way that's closer to emulating flight more than I've described, but from my own personal experience it is nowhere near approaching levels of hypocrisy to use.

[Cassidin]

I mean, come on, people seriously stop playing because of no flying ? that seriously has to be the dumbest thing since the square wheel. it's not the class changes, not the different style, or annoying bugs but lack of flying, lol.

You are making the mistake of judging other peoples preferences by your own. Some people may stay or leave based on raid content, other people may never do anything to do with raids and thus care not a fig about it. Similarly - some people fly around doing archaeology and pet battles and thats what they like doing. If part of that - the flying - is taken away from them they may find that whats left is just simply not enough to make them want to still play. Its fair enough - it wont make Blizzard change their minds on anything but yeah.... people will leave for all kinds of reasons.

[Granyala]

So are you changing your stance now? Are you saying you can envision changes that would make the removal of flight acceptable?

Difficult to say, I am not a game designer, so I have 0 clue if what it would take would even be realistically achieveable.

But basically: Make the world matter at maximum level. Make random stuff happen on the way. Make it interesting. Change the world.


Right now, once you have done the quests, the whole territory between you and you and the tiny spec of land that houses a few lv 100 mobs to kill might as well not exist because it is irrelevant.
I hope you can see how I would like to be able to traverse it quickly and quietly in that scenario.

[Cassidin]

"Ugh. I want to farm Steamwheedle rep but because I can't fly to the ogres and am forced to take a slightly longer flight path I don't want to" isn't convincing in the slightest.
.

Correct, but this is only becuase Blizzard took out any real need to BE in the open world apart from things like this - which are more or less in the same place and dont even really benefit from being able to fly. This and daily apexis quests are the main reasons to actually be in the open world and with this... its fly to one destination and then quest - then leave. There isnt any need to fly from node to node - they removed everything in the game that actually benefits from flying apart from Archaeology and Pet Battles. Now the main reason left for flying is simply "I want to". If Blizzard had not destroyed the may economy in order to force their wish to make cheaper easier to make content by making sure they didnt have to account for flying then not being able to fly would have been a bigger deal.

[Granyala]

Is using a flight path hypocritical? They're not traversing across the ground. Is taking a portal hypocritical? They're not traversing across the ground.

If you claim to love ground travel, yes it is.

Though YOU (as in Lewor), didn't claim that. More thinking about the likes of Brandon (Guinea pig with lightsaber) and TyrianFC.

[Deleted]

Correct, but this is only becuase Blizzard took out any real need to BE in the open world apart from things like this - which are more or less in the same place and dont even really benefit from being able to fly.

I'm not gunna argue with that. If the content itself is irrelevant outside of vanity then the general incentive to do it is at a lower priority.

- - - Updated - - -

If you claim to love ground travel, yes it is.

Though YOU (as in Lewor), didn't claim that. More thinking about the likes of Brandon (Guinea pig with lightsaber) and TyrianFC.

I'd say anyone who claims to "love" ground travel blindly isn't really much of a hypocrite just more of an over exaggeration. Like I said, people have a nasty habit of embellishing their points and neither side is exlusive from that.

So yeah, If these people genuinely claimed to love ground travel the motives behind it are pretty questionable. I still don't think Aviana's feather has any level of utility that approaches the scale of what flying did I just want to make that clear.

[Baconeggcheese]

Difficult to say, I am not a game designer, so I have 0 clue if what it would take would even be realistically achieveable.

You don't necessarily have to have the solution for you to be able to envision something that would change your stance on the subject.

For instance I would change my stance on flight if there were a way to make it not trivialize content and negatively effect game design without coming up with convoluted more frustrating systems that take even more resources and make the game even more frustrating than simply not having it.

I don't have the answer to what that solution could be, but if one were presented I would change my mind. That is all it means to be able to envision something that would change your mind, it can be as simple as a condition.

A discussion can be had from that, because people could discuss what might be the solution to the condition they envisioned. But if you can't envision anything and its simply *as long as the game is world of warcraft then it has to have flight* then there's no discussion to be had.

[Cassidin]

That and for some unfathomable reason Blizzard can't stand the "hop and drop" way of doing daily questmobs.

I do agree that the whole topic is a moot point in an expansion with virtually 0 open world content (relevant to raiders that is).

This is a key point I believe. I am very much pro-flying - but apart from "sight seeing" there isnt really that much I really NEED my flying mounts for now - as there is hardly any content that needs them anymore. In my view - Blizzard simply removed made the game rely on treasures/rares as thats easy content to make - and removed flying to make them harder to get. It is simply a time sink. Like flying, or hate it, its not needed now - due to lack of content.

[Maneo]

A question for the "pro-flight" crowd.

Is there any amount of convenience or changes to the game you can envision that would make the removal of flight acceptable?

Hope everyone had a happy holiday, just got back from my trips (glad it is over)

Yah I have a list of several changes that I think would not only lessen the impact of the removal of flight but also bring WoW into the modern age, just cause the game is 10 years old it doesn't have to be designed that way anymore.

1. Add portal master along with the flight masters for instant transportation
2. Increase ground mount speed on the roads
3. Hearthstone if used once returns you to your bound location if used again puts you back where you were.
4. Being able summon friends to you on some sort of cooldown.
5. Phased resource nodes ala the chests in timeless Isle
6. Shared tag for most mobs (or at least faction tag)
7. Mobs do not have a dismount mechanic unless they out level you or are rare/elite
8. Return flight just before the launch of the next expac, for those that love flying for the sake of it.
9. lastly and very unlikely, increased release of content. Not just hey here is a new raid tier, but here are some quests, treasures etc etc.

[Baconeggcheese]

Hope everyone had a happy holiday, just got back from my trips (glad it is over)

Yah I have a list of several changes that I think would not only lessen the impact of the removal of flight but also bring WoW into the modern age, just cause the game is 10 years old it doesn't have to be designed that way anymore.

1. Add portal master along with the flight masters for instant transportation
2. Increase ground mount speed on the roads
3. Hearthstone if used once returns you to your bound location if used again puts you back where you were.
4. Being able summon friends to you on some sort of cooldown.
5. Phased resource nodes ala the chests in timeless Isle
6. Shared tag for most mobs (or at least faction tag)
7. Mobs do not have a dismount mechanic unless they out level you or are rare/elite
8. Return flight just before the launch of the next expac, for those that love flying for the sake of it.
9. lastly and very unlikely, increased release of content. Not just hey here is a new raid tier, but here are some quests, treasures etc etc.

I can get behind a lot of this, 2-6 especially are great. I've wished for a lot of that for a while now. Hadn't thought of 2, but that would be fun / clever as they already set up the roads to be more friendly / safe to encourage you to go on them.

1 and 7 can be had through garrisons though. and 9 is something blizzard intends on doing already, whether or not they finally manage to achieve it is a whole different thing. They already do it as patch content with new questing zones etc, just not super fast.