Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Deleted]

The design of WoD renders the point moot.

"You already have crabs, so it's not bad if you get herpes also!" is a horrible way to argue your point. Two wrongs don't magically make one right.

Idk what flight points you are taking but the ones i take still take the scenic route and it's really annoying. They promised to fix that and failed big time. Unless all you do is sit in the garrison there's plenty of travel in wod.

Not just that, they're also very "unspecific" and uninteractive. If raiding is the only thing you do then sure it's a non issue. As most of the time you get teleported by your raid either way or you have a flight point close by. But then the whole bullshit about interacting with the world more danger and blablabla that has been used to justify and cited as reason for their removal to begin with falls apart.

It's nice to see that a lot of people have long since dropped that and now merely go with "there's no reason why you'd need that anyway" which is a horrific reason for removing anything. Might aswell remove 95% of WoW for that same logic. Who needs Shadowmoon Valley in BC for example? Why have two starting zones in Wotlk? Why have summoning stones when warlocks can do the same? Might aswell remove all these things because "Why not?".

[Mafic]

I honestly don't see how flying is going to make any significant difference to my life at this point. Flightpoints are almost as fast and there is very little travel involved in WoD.

By comparison - I recently realised that I never finished grinding out the Argent Tournament dailies to get all the Alliance side mounts. I started up again and... fuck me there is way too much time wasted going to all the areas the quests send you to. That's on a flying mount, across just two Wrath zones. Felt far, far worse than the hop skip and a jump flight paths in WoD.

The design of WoD renders the point moot.

Raid or die isn't a good design and the damage can be undone.

That first starts with allowing flying mount usage in WoD. And the flight points are terrible and Wow has the worst travel system in the industry for a pay 2 play MMO. Not even close.

[quras]

I admit I was apathetic. I figured dungeons were such a crucial part of the game, like flying, that they would never be completely disregarded. I was wrong.

I was never quite apathetic.

I was a bit shocked to play Wod Beta and see no flying at max level. Blizzard continued to preach about how they were doing/changing things or going to add content to make no flying interesting. They didn't. It was just removed while they still continued to sell it in their cash shop and collectors editions.

I never thought they would just remove it on a whim but that is exactly what blizzard did and damn it made WoD at max level suck just a little bit more.

[Deleted]

I was never quite apathetic.

I was a bit shocked to play Wod Beta and see no flying at max level. Blizzard continued to preach about how they were doing/changing things or going to add content to make no flying interesting. They didn't. It was just removed while they still continued to sell it in their cash shop and collectors editions.

I never thought they would just remove it on a whim but that is exactly what blizzard did and damn it made WoD at max level suck just a little bit more.

Selling the collector's edition with a flying mount that can't fly in current content was incredibly shady. Also shady is not taking a stance on the flying issue and stringing people along. If they had avoided the "we'll see" approach, I could respect their decision more. Hell, if there had been fantastic, repeatable, or dynamic open world content, I might have been receptive to the idea. But my wait and see approach vindicated my decision. Bulletin boards, both official and not, are filled with discontent. Some of which stems from no-flying.

My tin foil hat theory regarding Blizzard's approach to the issue this expansion is this: Many people are simply too invested in the game to give it up on a whim. There are friends, guild commitments and up to 10 years of character progression. By avoiding this polarizing issue, I think the business managers at Blizzard wanted those on the fence to become invested in this expansion. How many people said have said they will wait until 6.1 to make a decision? How many those actually quit when 6.1 came to pass? I am willing to bet not very many (because of flying anyway, lack of content and time between patches probably caused an exodus). Most became invested in the expansion and are now saying they will wait until 6.2.

I agree with some folks on this forum that this expansion is an experiment to see how much can be cut from the game and maintain its incredible profitability. They've cut flying, dungeons beyond those at launch, BG's (seriously, no new BG's in WoD, I am not a PvPer but this is just silly), factions advancing they story line as rep increased, and scenarios (yeah, they weren't all that great, but it was something that could have been built on). I don't expect any of this to return, especially flying, unless more people vote with their wallets.

[quras]

Selling the collector's edition with a flying mount that can't fly in current content was incredibly shady. Also shady is not taking a stance on the flying issue and stringing people along. If they had avoided the "we'll see" approach, I could respect their decision more. Hell, if there had been fantastic, repeatable, or dynamic open world content, I might have been receptive to the idea. But my wait and see approach vindicated my decision. Bulletin boards, both official and not, are filled with discontent. Some of which stems from no-flying.

Agreed. It's another one of those things where I don't mind a company making money but I do mind how they go about doing it. blizzards current approach shouldn't be supported no matter how much you like the game. It's just shady.

My tin foil hat theory regarding Blizzard's approach to the issue this expansion is this: Many people are simply too invested in the game to give it up on a whim. There are friends, guild commitments and up to 10 years of character progression. By avoiding this polarizing issue, I think the business managers at Blizzard wanted those on the fence to become invested in this expansion. How many people said have said they will wait until 6.1 to make a decision? How many those actually quit when 6.1 came to pass? I am willing to bet not very many (because of flying anyway, lack of content and time between patches probably caused an exodus). Most became invested in the expansion and are now saying they will wait until 6.2.

I think your right on blizzard playing off of how gamers are invested at this point. It's a big jump to give up years of one game and all that one might acquire just to start over in another game. I have no doubt blizzard is playing off that.

that carrot on a stick with flying coming from blizzard is pretty bad. Combine that with poor content, lackluster patches and it's no wonder the negativity that is revolving around WoD.

I agree with some folks on this forum that this expansion is an experiment to see how much can be cut from the game and maintain its incredible profitability. They've cut flying, dungeons beyond those at launch, BG's (seriously, no new BG's in WoD, I am not a PvPer but this is just silly), factions advancing they story line as rep increased, and scenarios (yeah, they weren't all that great, but it was something that could have been built on). I don't expect any of this to return, especially flying, unless more people vote with their wallets.

I a follow fo that theory. Just what can be cut and gamers still pay. they waited 14 months and got nothing new for it while paying. They got a $50 expansion that was worth maybe $20. All the while blizzard gauges how gamers will reacted to them doing less and charging more while taking out features they claim hurts there ability to design. Then only to actually remove flying and put out the same damn content they have been.

Sadly, I don't expect flying to return either. Thats why I don't play. The content wasn't strong enough, the story was too weak, the inclusion of D3 style loot and to top it off, I couldn't fly at max level. It just wasn't worth the inflated price.

I hope for others flying returns but for me, I'll wait till the next reset (expansion), try the beta again and gauge if it's worth it because this time for WoD, it was not.

[Deleted]

Sadly, I don't expect flying to return either. Thats why I don't play. The content wasn't strong enough, the story was too weak, the inclusion of D3 style loot and to top it off, I couldn't fly at max level. It just wasn't worth the inflated price.

I hope for others flying returns but for me, I'll wait till the next reset (expansion), try the beta again and gauge if it's worth it because this time for WoD, it was not.

Yep. Looks like I too will be sitting this expansion out. Funny thing is, I really want to play. But I cannot, with a clean conscience, accept the higher price tag for a polished turd without the content, and conveniences, that I enjoy.

[Maneo]

Yep. Looks like I too will be sitting this expansion out. Funny thing is, I really want to play. But I cannot, with a clean conscience, accept the higher price tag for a polished turd without the content, and conveniences, that I enjoy.

I was lucky a buddy of mine bought it for me. The funny thing is though he quit the game about a month ago. My sub is up soon and I won't be renewing it. The only reason it got renewed this last month is I had forgotten and it auto payed.

This expac is a joke that only Blizzard seems to know the punch line to, and flights removal was the set up.

[Deleted]

I was lucky a buddy of mine bought it for me. The funny thing is though he quit the game about a month ago. My sub is up soon and I won't be renewing it. The only reason it got renewed this last month is I had forgotten and it auto payed.

This expac is a joke that only Blizzard seems to know the punch line to, and flights removal was the set up.

I have followed this thread from its inception and heard just about every argument. I've come to the conclusion that nearly everything said in here is subjective and cannot be effectively debated. But, I am allowed an opinion and whether or not I agree and disagree with those that have offered their input. Although I am pro-flight, I like your views on giving it up as long as content was engaging. It appears that the addition of engaging world content in exchange for the reigns of our flying mounts was simply not true.

[Mafic]

I have followed this thread from its inception and heard just about every argument. I've come to the conclusion that nearly everything said in here is subjective and cannot be effectively debated. But, I am allowed an opinion and whether or not I agree and disagree with those that have offered their input. Although I am pro-flight, I like your views on giving it up as long as content was engaging. It appears that the addition of engaging world content in exchange for the reigns of our flying mounts was simply not true.

Not everything is subjective.

We did experiments and tests regarding time intervals using flying mounts vs flight paths on Pandaria (before WoD beta was open to the public) and when WoD was open beta. What we determined was that it would be a global nerf to all players in the order of approxiamately 20-30% play time lost due to using flight paths instead of flying mounts.

[Deleted]

Not everything is subjective.

We did experiments and tests regarding time intervals using flying mounts vs flight paths on Pandaria (before WoD beta was open to the public) and when WoD was open beta. What we determined was that it would be a global nerf to all players in the order of approxiamately 20-30% play time lost due to using flight paths instead of flying mounts.

Pfffft not at all, instead I just don't leave my garrison and just play my facebook games, no flight paths required, you can use aviannas feather from garrison to get to both raids so no need

[Deleted]

Not everything is subjective.

We did experiments and tests regarding time intervals using flying mounts vs flight paths on Pandaria (before WoD beta was open to the public) and when WoD was open beta. What we determined was that it would be a global nerf to all players in the order of approxiamately 20-30% play time lost due to using flight paths instead of flying mounts.

Goodness. Ridiculous. One of the few anti-flight arguments I can't wrap my head around is demonizing flight because it's "too convenient."

- - - Updated - - -

Pfffft not at all, instead I just don't leave my garrison and just play my facebook games, no flight paths required, you can use aviannas feather from garrison to get to both raids so no need

I am starting to advance in my years so it's hard for me identify online sarcasm (Reddit seems to help), but I assume you're dead serious. It's sad really that open world content, my main reason for flying, is absent.

*shakes fist...and cane

[Mellrod]

Goodness. Ridiculous. One of the few anti-flight arguments I can't wrap my head around is demonizing flight because it's "too convenient."

Because all of these convenience have dulled the game and made this community lazy. Take LFG for example. It's very convienient, and ever since it's launch, it's had a lot of the community sitting in the capital city, queued up for everything, instead of out in the world like people used to be. Blizzard regrets adding flying mounts in hindsight, and I agree with them.

[Deleted]

Because all of these convenience have dulled the game and made this community lazy. Take LFG for example. It's very convienient, and ever since it's launch, it's had a lot of the community sitting in the capital city, queued up for everything, instead of out in the world like people used to be. Blizzard regrets adding flying mounts in hindsight, and I agree with them.

I don't think it's lazy to add quality of life changes to the game. I was incredibly grateful when LFD was released. I was able to run dungeons at my own convenience from my small RP server (hey KT!) instead of sitting in a city and spamming trade. There weren't always sufficient numbers of people in my guild wanting to run dungeons so instead I flew around, did dailies, and queued up for dungeons. I made some friends from other servers because of it. And eventually transferred my characters.

I would rather people do the content they want at a pace that makes them comfortable. I also applaud the average player for being so efficient. I don't think there is anything wrong with accomplishing more in less time. I am not a developer or creative director, but Blizzard has years of data on player interactions and content consumption. Maybe they should have developed appropriate repeatable content instead of instituting time and travel gates to the little they did develop.

[Wrathonia]

Because all of these convenience have dulled the game and made this community lazy. Take LFG for example. It's very convienient, and ever since it's launch, it's had a lot of the community sitting in the capital city, queued up for everything, instead of out in the world like people used to be. Blizzard regrets adding flying mounts in hindsight, and I agree with them.

The problem was never LFG. Blizzard used to create compelling outdoor content that got us out into the world. They simply stopped doing it. There was plenty to do out and about in Northrend even when LFD was introduced. In Cata? Was there any compelling reason to go to zones that you already did? There were kinda some things in MoP, but some of it was literally forced inconvenience. A sign that they were forgetting how to make content. PvP vendors out on the wall. JP/VP vendors out at the Nizao temple. 5.1 they dropped the dailies out in the most unused zone in the game, but they got ignored as soon as people were done. Then instead of making more content for the current maps, they made islands. Don't get me started on the garbage that was 5.3. Holy shit, if that wasn't a sign of the Apocalypse, I don't know what is.

[Kinjin]

I simply don't understand the argument coming from people who don't want flying in the game. Not a single point made seems valid, accurate, or compelling to me in any way. Most would seem laughable if there wasn't so much hate and nastiness spewed from the forum critters that spout them.

I guess my version of fun isn't the same as yours. I just wish your version didn't restrict me from enjoying the game. Because mine wouldn't restrict you from yours. I mean you could simply choose not to fly. Oh there I go. Using logic. Not permitted. I know. Sorry, won't happen again.

It must be all that polish Blizzard puts on the final product before I got dismounted and fell to my death flying between zones just yesterday, 3 years after crz release. The glare must have blinded me to the obvious truth. You must be right. No one could possibly disagree. That's why this thread has twice as many replies as the sticky post on top that's been there since 2010 at almost 41k and is so tiny.

[Deleted]

I simply don't understand the argument coming from people who don't want flying in the game. Not a single point made seems valid, accurate, or compelling to me in any way. Most would seem laughable if there wasn't so much hate and nastiness spewed from the forum critters that spout them.

I guess my version of fun isn't the same as yours. I just wish your version didn't restrict me from enjoying the game. Because mine wouldn't restrict you from yours. I mean you could simply choose not to fly. Oh there I go. Using logic. Not permitted. I know. Sorry, won't happen again.

It must be all that polish Blizzard puts on the final product before I got dismounted and fell to my death flying between zones just yesterday, 3 years after crz release. The glare must have blinded me to the obvious truth. You must be right. No one could possibly disagree. That's why this thread has twice as many replies as the sticky post on top that's been there since 2010 at almost 41k and is so tiny.

There is a game design concept called "dominant strategy". It basically says if there is something that makes the game really easy and quick, it will be used to beat the game, regardless of how boring or tedious it is.

[khalltusk]

There is a game design concept called "dominant strategy". It basically says if there is something that makes the game really easy and quick, it will be used to beat the game, regardless of how boring or tedious it is.

You mean humans taking the path of least resistance? That is always a factor.

[rda]

There is a game design concept called "dominant strategy". It basically says if there is something that makes the game really easy and quick, it will be used to beat the game, regardless of how boring or tedious it is.

I think I saw the exact same words already posted by you. I replied to them by asking how they apply to flying in WoD, you never answered.

[Deleted]

Because all of these convenience have dulled the game and made this community lazy. Take LFG for example. It's very convienient, and ever since it's launch, it's had a lot of the community sitting in the capital city, queued up for everything, instead of out in the world like people used to be. Blizzard regrets adding flying mounts in hindsight, and I agree with them.

Except removing flight similar to removing Have Group Will Travel does the exact opposite. It makes people LESS willing to go out into the world because they can stand around in their Garrison or Warspear and just get an instant teleport or summon anyway. So once again it makes literarely zero sense to remove flight as it's completely unrelated to "people standing around in the capital city" if anything it's on the opposite of the spectrum.

There is a game design concept called "dominant strategy". It basically says if there is something that makes the game really easy and quick, it will be used to beat the game, regardless of how boring or tedious it is.

How exactly does flying make the game "easy and quick" seeing how it only affects world content and not instanced content and world content is mostly meaningless, done by 100 or just a side activity by best. Claiming that somehow flying causes "people to beat the game" is utterly ridiculous and similar to the other guy making a nonsensical contradictory false fallacy just reeks of desperation to keep the whole anti flight argument going.

Seriously by now you guys dropped almost every single last point you at any point had going for you. The world isn't more dangerous, something you guys kept arguing. The world isn't more immersive, something you guys kept arguing. The treasures are done by anyone interested in them for months, something you guys kept arguing was great content and went on to inflate their impact mostly because you never did them and were completely unaware how many there truly are.

Overall your entire case has collapsed over WoD and you guys are now basically down to making stuff up or arguing with "Why not remove it, since there's nothing out there in WoD anyway worth flying to?" such as posted by Mormolyce.

[Deleted]

Overall your entire case has collapsed over WoD and you guys are now basically down to making stuff up or arguing with "Why not remove it, since there's nothing out there in WoD anyway worth flying to?" such as posted by Mormolyce.

Simply because it is an argument that has come to light after the subsequent release of WoD and after experiencing the the game over several months does not make it any less relevant of an argument. The argument is valid, in fact it can be regarded as more valid as the ones before as it is constructed from observation and not inductive thought. It is quite amusing that this condescending rhetoric continues, claiming that no arguments can possibly be valid because the expansion did not work out the way that was envisioned. This is not the case, in particular when regarding the arguments that make reference to future events and possible changes in philosophy.