Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[-Superman-]

I believe it was satirical, it wasn't meant to be accurately what anyone has said, but rather taking the piss of the WAY some people will defend anything. Not all "FanBoys" will do this but there are always some that will.

I'm sure there are some PvP fiends, Blizz white knights, and anti-flying fanatics who would say exactly that (the satire). A true fan doesn't want things removed, they want them added. Being a fanboy doesn't involve following choices blindly. That's the job of the White Knight.

[Cassidin]

and do exactly what blizzard wants to do with this pointless no flying crap. Extend content in the initial release months of the expansion and make doing anything at max level take far longer then it needs to.

I dont think restricting the quantity of crafted items will make anything take longer in itself - it will just reduce the demand for them as people will be more able to fill those slots via raiding (of one type or another) before the price comes down to what they will be willing to pay. If the supply went down enough only the "cutting edge" (or very rich) players would be willing to pay for them.

[gamingmuscle]

No, but the ground movement after reaching the outpost, much more immersive compared to dropping onto whatever you were going for.

Exactly how is it immersion breaking to mount up on a flying mount and fly? Its not like the warcraft universe isn't full of examples of mounted flight (before wow). So it's consistent. So this claim makes no sense to me...outside of it just being personal preference.

[Ghostile]

I'm sure there are some PvP fiends, Blizz white knights, and anti-flying fanatics who would say exactly that (the satire). A true fan doesn't want things removed, they want them added. Being a fanboy doesn't involve following choices blindly. That's the job of the White Knight.

uh... that's.. eh.. how to put it without sounding like an ass...
"my opinion is correct, no one has anything about it, I am here just to tell people I'm right"

- - - Updated - - -

Exactly how is it immersion breaking to mount up on a flying mount and fly? Its not like the warcraft universe isn't full of examples of mounted flight (before wow). So it's consistent. So this claim makes no sense to me...outside of it just being personal preference.

Immersion is the wrong word here. The dragons don't have visible genitalia, as my friend likes to say, who cares about immersion?

Engaging is the correct word.

And yes, I aknowledge my mistake earlier.

[wow2011]

See a node, ride to it and see if you pull too many mobs - if you do run away till you lose agro. Same effect really - sure bit more "dangerous" but still can be done. As for those cheating rogues and druids.... damn them and stealthing!

Point is, this is not "cheating" or "like cheating" anymore than someone with a 100% mount is cheating over someone with a 60% mount. Some people will beat you to stuff - sometimes because they are better than you, other times because they have an advantage over you. That's part of what the game is about. It doesn't need to be "everyone has equal chance to get everything at every level". Sure flying mount gives someone an advantage, just as better gear gives someone an advantage when it comes to soloing a rare. Its just "how it is" and it doesn't need to be any different.

For the PVP capture ones you mentioned - I thought the pointer wouldn't start moving unless you were unmounted. Even then though I know that with a flying mount you could many times just mount up and fly as soon as you SAW someone approaching. However I don't personally feel that PVP capture mechanisms in open zones are much of a reason against flying mounts as there wasn't even much going on there when it was current!

I never said you can't "attempt" to do what flying mount accomplish on ground. I am saying the advantage is huge and it is so huge that it renders ground mount useless. On the ground, you could be dismounted by mobs with a daze (some mobs can charge stun you). You might not be able to clear all agro by running away and you might even end up agroing more. I can drop all agro within 1 second, guaranteed without possibility to fail, on a flying mount. Not to mention there is 0% chance for you to trail a bunch of mobs to the node with you if you are flying.

Gear advantage takes time and skill (heroic raiding gear) in order to obtain. What does it take for flying? 1k gold at level 100?

The pvp mechanics is just 1 example out of so many that I can think of. That alone obviously isn't a big deal. It is the sum of all the advantages of flying added together that makes flying broken and needed to be reworked/changed. The advantage of ground mount to running is no where close to the advantage of flying mount to ground mount. I say it is like cheating is because the advantage of flying mount is massive.

[Cassidin]

I'm sure there are some PvP fiends, Blizz white knights, and anti-flying fanatics who would say exactly that (the satire). A true fan doesn't want things removed, they want them added. Being a fanboy doesn't involve following choices blindly. That's the job of the White Knight.

I suppose it depends on your definition. To many people a fanboy is someone that will back whatever Blizzard say simply because Blizzard say it. Your definition seems to not be the same as that and you get pissed when people say thats what it means - I get that. To many people a hacker is someone that gains unlawful entry to a computer system, but to some people it means someone that gets right in the code and fixes things - makes things work. To those people what many people call a hacker is a "cracker" or maybe some other word. Those of us that remember that definition sometimes also get pissed off when people talk about "hackers". Its all in the definition. By your definition of FanBoy I would put myself in that group too - I love what most of what Blizzard does with WoW - I have played since 2005 and have no intention of quitting anytime soon as I love the game. I don't however always agree with everything Blizzard does.

[Marxman]

Normal servers have PvP too. You joined a game with faction warfare, there is no place with ZERO PvP EVER. Should people who PvP on normal/RP servers have their PvP ruined?

US-Stormrage has zero PvP, mostly because it has zero Horde.

[Cassidin]

I never said you can't "attempt" to do what flying mount accomplish on ground. I am saying the advantage is huge and it is so huge that it renders ground mount useless. On the ground, you could be dismounted by mobs with a daze (some mobs can charge stun you). You might not be able to clear all agro by running away and you might even end up agroing more. I can drop all agro within 1 second, guaranteed without possibility to fail, on a flying mount. Not to mention there is 0% chance for you to trail a bunch of mobs to the node with you if you are flying.

Gear advantage takes time and skill (heroic raiding gear) in order to obtain. What does it take for flying? 1k gold at level 100?

The pvp mechanics is just 1 example out of so many that I can think of. That alone obviously isn't a big deal. It is the sum of all the advantages of flying added together that makes flying broken and needed to be reworked/changed. The advantage of ground mount to running is no where close to the advantage of flying mount to ground mount. I say it is like cheating is because the advantage of flying mount is massive.

All fair points (although I know I have been dismounted from a flying mount too by charging mobs) - but I still think the advantages of having flying in the game outweigh any disadvantages. This is of course only my personal opinion - I would definitely miss flying mounts if they disappeared from the game totally in WoD. There would be many things I would not be able to do that I personally enjoy. I would still sub - but something special would have been removed from my favourite game - a little bit of WoW would die to me.

[quras]

I never said you can't "attempt" to do what flying mount accomplish on ground. I am saying the advantage is huge and it is so huge that it renders ground mount useless. On the ground, you could be dismounted by mobs with a daze (some mobs can charge stun you). You might not be able to clear all agro by running away and you might even end up agroing more. I can drop all agro within 1 second, guaranteed without possibility to fail, on a flying mount. Not to mention there is 0% chance for you to trail a bunch of mobs to the node with you if you are flying.

All that is a failure on the blizzard design team. Blame them if you want gather nodes to be harder. Create intereating mechancs on or around nodes if you want to add some form of "time waster"

It's not flying thats the problem, its a lack of design. Removing flying is just blizzard taking the easier road.

Gear advantage takes time and skill (heroic raiding gear) in order to obtain. What does it take for flying? 1k gold at level 100?

The pvp mechanics is just 1 example out of so many that I can think of. That alone obviously isn't a big deal. It is the sum of all the advantages of flying added together that makes flying broken and needed to be reworked/changed. The advantage of ground mount to running is no where close to the advantage of flying mount to ground mount. I say it is like cheating is because the advantage of flying mount is massive.

Cheating? Thats like the worse word you could use so I wont harp on that.

Is flying good? Sure it is. Could the design/development team come up with things to make it less interesting in some areas. Come up with ways to stop quest bombing on thing?

You bet they could cause gamers in this very forum have done it.

Blizzard just doesn't want to and thats unacceptable.

[gamingmuscle]

I'm sure there are some PvP fiends, Blizz white knights, and anti-flying fanatics who would say exactly that (the satire). A true fan doesn't want things removed, they want them added. Being a fanboy doesn't involve following choices blindly. That's the job of the White Knight.

I'm probably classified by many as a "Fan boi" but that's because I can follow the rationale or see the benefit to the game of a change, even if said change doesn't have much effect on or interest me.

With no flight for the entire expansion...I just don't see the benefit. And all the "reason" listed by the proponents have been weak at best.

Some of what I see happening:
1) a small uptick in wpvp.
2) a down tick in # of gathers.
3) a decrease in total number of people out in the world.
4) a decrease in world size (granted blizzard hasn't down much with the sky lately)

probably more, but its time for the gym so I gotta wrap up.

#2 & 3 can probably be compensated by "compelling" content in the open world. If it exists...lol
#4 will still be true.

[wow2011]

All fair points (although I know I have been dismounted from a flying mount too by charging mobs) - but I still think the advantages of having flying in the game outweigh any disadvantages. This is of course only my personal opinion - I would definitely miss flying mounts if they disappeared from the game totally in WoD. There would be many things I would not be able to do that I personally enjoy. I would still sub - but something special would have been removed from my favourite game - a little bit of WoW would die to me.

I am not pro removal. I am pro change. I really wish there would be aerial combat but Blizzard has already shot that down after vashjir. I don't know what the right solution is to this very difficult problem but I do know changes are needed. I also recognize flying mount (as it is now) to be a problem because of the advantages flying presents. My hope is Wildstar come out with a kickass flying system and Blizzard copy them for WoW.

[gamingmuscle]

Immersion is the wrong word here. The dragons don't have visible genitalia, as my friend likes to say, who cares about immersion?

Well it might be retractable....but that is irrelevant.

Engaging is the correct word.

And yes, I aknowledge my mistake earlier.

So personal preference.

[wow2011]

All that is a failure on the blizzard design team. Blame them if you want gather nodes to be harder. Create intereating mechancs on or around nodes if you want to add some form of "time waster"

It's not flying thats the problem, its a lack of design. Removing flying is just blizzard taking the easier road.

Cheating? Thats like the worse word you could use so I wont harp on that.

Is flying good? Sure it is. Could the design/development team come up with things to make it less interesting in some areas. Come up with ways to stop quest bombing on thing?

You bet they could cause gamers in this very forum have done it.

Blizzard just doesn't want to and thats unacceptable.

I don't care for gathering nodes to be more difficult just for the sake of being difficult. I prefer things to be fun and there is nothing fun about flying around and going down to get a node. And like I have mentioned in my past posts, Blizzard have tried things that make flying interesting ever since TBC. It's just that all of them have been shot down by community because it is too punishing.

Also, I am not using cheating just for the hell of it. The way flying works in WoW is just like cheating as it gives players so much more power compared to not using it (and I have given examples in previous posts as well). Some balances/changes are definitely needed to bring flying into the same ballpark as other modes of transportation.

[Ghostile]

Well it might be retractable....but that is irrelevant.

a friend of mine took a moment and explained us about reptiles and genitalia.
I will never forget that.

[Marxman]

I don't care for gathering nodes to be more difficult just for the sake of being difficult. I prefer things to be fun and there is nothing fun about flying around and going down to get a node. And like I have mentioned in my past posts, Blizzard have tried things that make flying interesting ever since TBC. It's just that all of them have been shot down by community because it is too punishing.

Also, I am not using cheating just for the hell of it. The way flying works in WoW is just like cheating as it gives players so much more power compared to not using it (and I have given examples in previous posts as well). Some balances/changes are definitely needed to bring flying into the same ballpark as other modes of transportation.

So... it's your position that having to fight useless mobs to get to a node, mobs which you have absolutely no interest or reason to kill, is better design than flying to nodes? Because that makes absolutely no sense to me.

Putting artificial barriers in place between me and my goal is not adding interesting choices to the game. It's slowing me down and removing convenience.

I will never understand this mentality that travel needs to be time consuming and tedious. Because by removing flying that is exactly what you're asking for. Travel is NOT content. It is NOT interesting. It wasn't interesting in Vanilla, it's not interesting now, it won't be interesting in WoD. Trying to make it interesting by removing flying is a fool's errand.

[Ordinator]

Some of what I see happening:
1) a small uptick in wpvp.
2) a down tick in # of gathers.
3) a decrease in total number of people out in the world.
4) a decrease in world size (granted blizzard hasn't down much with the sky lately)

What?

1)You're right. Although the magnitude is yet to be seen.
2)Blizzard said multiple times they can make gathering just as efficient. Wanting to gather really fast is an awful argument for flying.
3)Would love to hear some reasons on that? Less people then there are currently? because I don't think that's possible.
4)That's the exact opposite of what will happen. The giant vast nothingness that is the sky IS NOT part of the world and should not be treated as such. The ground on the other hand (the only part of the game that matters) will with out a doubt feel much larger and more significant. So i couldn't disagree with this point anymore.

[-Superman-]

my opinion is correct, no one has anything about it, I am here just to tell people I'm right

Must feel good to admit that.

[Ghostile]

Must feel good to admit that.

What a clever way to take stuff out of context.
Want a cookie for that?

[Barkloud]

What?

1)You're right. Although the magnitude is yet to be seen.
2)Blizzard said multiple times they can make gathering just as efficient. Wanting to gather really fast is an awful argument for flying.
3)Would love to hear some reasons on that? Less people then there are currently? because I don't think that's possible.
4)That's the exact opposite of what will happen. The giant vast nothingness that is the sky IS NOT part of the world and should not be treated as such. The ground on the other hand (the only part of the game that matters) will with out a doubt feel much larger and more significant. So i couldn't disagree with this point anymore.

How is Blizzard going to make gathering just as efficient as it is today? I can see gathering participation taking a massive hit, making more for those who put up with the brutality of running a zone over and over.

[Ghostile]

How is Blizzard going to make gathering just as efficient as it is today? I can see gathering participation taking a massive hit, making more for those who put up with the brutality of running a zone over and over.

U-huh, people who bother working get more money than the guy who sits in a town doing nothing, is that bad?

But to answer you question, ore per hour stays the same as before by adding more nodes/more yied/less required per craft.