Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[urasim]

So what would you base arena wins on?

Why would you remove LFR when its is a valid progression stone?

Why the old talents? Why not re-design them from where they are now? Or add to them?

Not very up to date are we? Blizzard is making LFR NOT a progression stepping stone. The gear will be really weak.

I for one would like to see the world, have a reason to go through it, not just sit in some city waiting for a queue or looking for someone to trade with or duel. Flying over it kills the world to me, always have

Good for you, man. No one is forcing you to do anything, but Blizzard is forcing those of us who actually like the feel of flight to be grounded. That's not fun for us.

The funniest thing about all of it though... Is that in the end, this is Blizzard's game, not the communities, if Blizzard wants it one way for a reason, they simply will do it that way, no matter what the community has to say about it.

It's their game, correct. But, they're doing it for the money. If enough people quit, they will revert the change.

[Yarathir]

Not very up to date are we? Blizzard is making LFR NOT a progression stepping stone. The gear will be really weak.



Good for you, man. No one is forcing you to do anything, but Blizzard is forcing those of us who actually like the feel of flight to be grounded. That's not fun for us.



It's their game, correct. But, they're doing it for the money. If enough people quit, they will revert the change.

There's the truth of "You can't have your cake and eat it, too.". There often is the argument of "well, those who don't want to fly don't have a choice either, because they wanna see and explore the world, but then other people will have an advantage.". Yeah, they probably will, but that's the thing. Normally, if there is a clash of interests (advantage vs enjoying the world and exploring), you work out what your priorities are. If you have to choose, which would you rather have? Many choose for the advantages, and that should be the end of it.


But that's now no longer the case, because anti-flyers cooked up a shitstorm, and whined for the removal of flying all throughout the forums. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too, and now people who want to fly won't even be able to eat their cake. Good job!

[urasim]

The ones that are against these changes I would assume came to this game in late WotLK or later. I've read a lot of posts lately, and the way that most of those people present themselves in their posts, suggests to me that they may be in that age where you only demand demand and demand, I.E mid-teens (16-18). That makes sense as well, seing how horribly demanding their attitude is.

I am against this change and I have been playing since the beta for classic. You don't add a huge feature, keep it in the game for seven years, and then remove it because you think it MIGHT get you more subs.

You speak of TBC but fail so hard to realize that flight was added then...

Is there a reason you felt the need to insult us instead of attacking our arguments?

[Yarathir]

I am against this change and I have been playing since the beta for classic. You don't add a huge feature, keep it in the game for seven years, and then remove it because you think it MIGHT get you more subs.

You speak of TBC but fail so hard to realize that flight was added then...

Is there a reason you felt the need to insult us instead of attacking our arguments?

Just popping in here. Want to keep flying, and I joined early TBC.

[Sjoa]

I am against this change and I have been playing since the beta for classic. You don't add a huge feature, keep it in the game for seven years, and then remove it because you think it MIGHT get you more subs.

You speak of TBC but fail so hard to realize that flight was added then...

Is there a reason you felt the need to insult us instead of attacking our arguments?

I should have added and i forgot but, my post was absolutely not ment as an ad hominem. Not at all. What I meant was, that you can fly virtually wherever you are now in this game. For me, that is not a healthy environment. In Outland you could fly yes, but there was no AH in Outland. You had to portal to org and mount up on your awesome ground mount and run, watch for fall damage so you don't die, and end up jumping on the bank roof in Org for a couple of hours. It was AWESOME, at least for me. You also had to run/use flight path to get to raids such as Karazhan, Zul'Aman and Hyjal. It adds an appeal to me personally by having these options. You don't get that today, Blizzard sees that as well, and they are committed to change this. (Read no flying in Draenor)


EDIT: Btw are they removing flying? I've never heard of such a thing. AFAIK, flying was never implemented on Draenor, so how can one remove something that's never existed?

Also. If you honestly think this is a change in direction from Blizzard's side to gain more subs. You are doing nothing but strengthening my belief that i quoted in previous post.

[Army Dreamer]

I am against this change and I have been playing since the beta for classic. You don't add a huge feature, keep it in the game for seven years, and then remove it because you think it MIGHT get you more subs

I won't affect subs. It will only make playing more annoying and tedious. I want to keep flying, and I joined in early Vanilla.

[Thorsson7]

You're absolutely right, our credit cards will back down.

Don't be silly, 14 year olds don't have credit cards!

[Sjoa]

You're absolutely right, our credit cards will back down.

P.S.: your 2-bit psycho babble about 16-18 year old's (is there a chart for that sort of stuff, like "How demanding are MMO players based on age"? Interesting) and their demands is inherently nullified, since no one demands something new, we want something that already exists to remain in the future game zones. We're asking for status quo.

I didn't think of age as in physical years one has been alive. More attitude-wise. You for instance, having to charge personal attacks and not keep a discussion relevant proves a ton about how you function mentally as a person. Again, this is not an ad hominem to counter you, But please. No need for personal attacks.

[urasim]

I should have added and i forgot but, my post was absolutely not ment as an ad hominem. Not at all. What I meant was, that you can fly virtually wherever you are now in this game. For me, that is not a healthy environment. In Outland you could fly yes, but there was no AH in Outland. You had to portal to org and mount up on your awesome ground mount and run, watch for fall damage so you don't die, and end up jumping on the bank roof in Org for a couple of hours. It was AWESOME, at least for me. You also had to run/use flight path to get to raids such as Karazhan, Zul'Aman and Hyjal. It adds an appeal to me personally by having these options. You don't get that today, Blizzard sees that as well, and they are committed to change this. (Read no flying in Draenor)


EDIT: Btw are they removing flying? I've never heard of such a thing. AFAIK, flying was never implemented on Draenor, so how can one remove something that's never existed?

Also. If you honestly think this is a change in direction from Blizzard's side to gain more subs. You are doing nothing but strengthening my belief that i quoted in previous post.

Enabling flight is extremely easy, but there are reasons not to do so.

I CAN fly in old, irrelevant, outdated zones that I won't actually be in!

I won't affect subs. It will only make playing more annoying and tedious. I want to keep flying, and I joined in early Vanilla.

It has affected subs. Mine specifically. I will not be purchasing a game where Blizzard continually removes fun features because a very small, loud, and annoying part of the playing base thinks it will make the game better when there is no proof that it will.

[Thorsson7]

It has affected subs. Mine specifically. I will not be purchasing a game where Blizzard continually removes fun features because a very small, loud, and annoying part of the playing base thinks it will make the game better when there is the proof that it will.

Subs were affected by adding in all this bullshit. Subs will get better if they bring the fundamentals of WoW back:



See that constant downward trend after WotLK?

Yeah.

[Sjoa]

All the proof Blizzard needs is the numbers that will come in the fourth quarter. And I am pretty sure that over all player base will increase in the start of an expansion. Will it not? It has for every expansion so far nevertheless.

[Mechanibull]

Personally, I won't be purchasing WoD until I see it confirmed by Blizzard that flying will be available at either max level or the first post expansion patch. It saddens me a bit after 7 years to say that, but then I think of all the time I'll have to do other things =P

[urasim]

Subs were affected by adding in all this bullshit. Subs will get better if they bring the fundamentals of WoW back:

See that constant downward trend after WotLK?

Yeah.

What is your point?

Flight was added two years before wrath and the subs increased.

[Thorsson7]

All the proof Blizzard needs is the numbers that will come in the fourth quarter. And I am pretty sure that over all player base will increase in the start of an expansion. Will it not? It has for every expansion so far nevertheless.

Refer to above graph. After WotLK, population continued decreasing regardless of an expansion. A short bump for Mists which is irrelevant considering the numbers are below what they were now significantly.

We will see a tiny % resubbing just before Draenor, but without dramatic overhaul to return WoW to it's core, the numbers will keep dropping.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the majority of WoW's peak population of 11.5m played because Classic/TBC/Wrath. When Blizzard changed the game so dramatically it didn't feel like the same game anymore, those people left. Clearly adding in new features hasn't returned that population.

ADDING FEATURES DOESN'T ADD POPULATION.


The numbers don't lie.

[Sjoa]

Personally, I won't be purchasing WoD until I see it confirmed by Blizzard that flying will be available at either max level or the first post expansion patch. It saddens me a bit after 7 years to say that, but then I think of all the time I'll have to do other things =P

Don't think threats like that will effect Blizzard enough. But go ahead with the rally, it just won't work I'm feeling pretty confident about that, and I just recently got back to the game after all the good Blizzard presumably is planning for the game. Don't forget. The group of people that's quit during WotLK, Cata or MoP is an obvious better target for Blizzard money wise than the group that'll "quit if no flying".

[Deleted]

Refer to above graph. After WotLK, population continued decreasing regardless of an expansion. A short bump for Mists which is irrelevant considering the numbers are below what they were now significantly.

We will see a tiny % resubbing just before Draenor, but without dramatic overhaul to return WoW to it's core, the numbers will keep dropping.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the majority of WoW's peak population of 11.5m played because Classic/TBC/Wrath. When Blizzard changed the game so dramatically it didn't feel like the same game anymore, those people left. Clearly adding in new features hasn't returned that population.

ADDING FEATURES DOESN'T ADD POPULATION.


The numbers don't lie.

and what makes you think returning to how the game used to be will return all those lost subs?

you're making a huge assumption that all those people left solely because the game changed.

[Kaiarra]

I feel like some of the changes being made, for instance the item squish and no flying, the ones that are for these changes are the playerbase that still exist from TBC days. They know how good that expansion was, stuff like flying in main cities and 1 million crits is for me extremely dumb, and that alone makes big parts of the game not appealing.

Yeah... flying was available in TBC/Shattrath, the only difference was that you actually had to earn it as it was rather expensive. Not that I think that was a bad thing; I rather liked the feeling of it being more exclusive, and it felt like a massive achievement when you finally saved up enough to buy max flying (because entry level flying was slow as hell). I'm quite happy for them to remove flying in SW if they like, as I hate the place and try to go there as little as possible; needing to AFK on a FP to get ZA/Kara did not make TBC awesome.

The ones that are against these changes I would assume came to this game in late WotLK or later. I've read a lot of posts lately, and the way that most of those people present themselves in their posts, suggests to me that they may be in that age where you only demand demand and demand, I.E mid-teens (16-18). That makes sense as well, seing how horribly demanding their attitude is.

I think no flying is a dumb idea, and I started playing WoW when the original Naxx patch was released; way to generalise.

Timeless Isle, IoT, etc, are just so tedious with the whole "lets make everything slower because we can". We still skip all the mobs we would skip with flying, so it's only purpose is to waste time and drag out content a tiny bit longer. I could go with temporary no-fly zones, say for example, once you hit exalted with Kirin Tor Offensive on IoT you unlocked the ability to fly on the island, but perma no fly zones just suck on a PvE server. Hell, half the scenarios on IoT had us flying around so it was just idiotic. I have no issues with no flying on the PvP servers for their precious world PvP, but they should keep it the hell away from the PvE servers IMO.

[Sjoa]

Refer to above graph. After WotLK, population continued decreasing regardless of an expansion. A short bump for Mists which is irrelevant considering the numbers are below what they were now significantly.

We will see a tiny % resubbing just before Draenor, but without dramatic overhaul to return WoW to it's core, the numbers will keep dropping.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, the majority of WoW's peak population of 11.5m played because Classic/TBC/Wrath. When Blizzard changed the game so dramatically it didn't feel like the same game anymore, those people left. Clearly adding in new features hasn't returned that population.

ADDING FEATURES DOESN'T ADD POPULATION.


The numbers don't lie.

My post was ment to the post over yours, sorry I didn't quote properly

[Thorsson7]

What is your point?

Flight was added two years before wrath and the subs increased.

Flight added to Azeroth killed the population off.

[Mechanibull]

I didn't think of age as in physical years one has been alive. More attitude-wise. You for instance, having to charge personal attacks and not keep a discussion relevant proves a ton about how you function mentally as a person. Again, this is not an ad hominem to counter you, But please. No need for personal attacks.

I also find reading comprehension and understanding of context to be good indicators of a persons "mental age". Your original post, which James Bond was responding to, was basically one big personal attack calling anyone who likes flying demanding crybabies. Perhaps a few moments of self reflection would help you see the irony of your response.

Don't think threats like that will effect Blizzard enough. But go ahead with the rally, it just won't work I'm feeling pretty confident about that, and I just recently got back to the game after all the good Blizzard presumably is planning for the game. Don't forget. The group of people that's quit during WotLK, Cata or MoP is an obvious better target for Blizzard money wise than the group that'll "quit if no flying".

Who said I was trying to affect anything? Blizzard will do what they want, and so will I. And I doubt that the majority of the people who quit during the last 3 expansions did so because they found flying to be somehow offensive to their delicate sensibilities. I dislike arena, so I don't do it. See how that works?