Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[wych]

Oh, sure. I'm not saying the Timeless Isle system is totally bad, just that, the Timeless Isle itself really was annoying and boring to me, and that if they were to deploy like a copycat version of that in terms of the system, I'll probably find it more than a hindrance than an enjoyment.

Fair enough, I agree it'd probably suck over an entire continent, i've got enough faith though that they'll mix it up and keep it interesting.

Guess we'll have to see

[Asmekiel]

And I'm even weirder than you think.

You probably are ^^

I walk when I explore a new area. And I don't mean on foot running. I mean I toggle /walk instead of /run. It's the most succulent part of a new expansion to me, and it makes the world feel ten times bigger and more *gasp* immersive.

It does bother me a bit that I have to wait until patch 6.1 before I can get that feeling. In MoP, while leveling, I had no idea where I was and felt completely disconnected from the world. When I finished the Dread Wastes questline and picked up the flying skill, I finally saw how the continent really looked, what my part was in the story and how everything's connected. I don't like that I'm basically being punished because I prefer it that way, while you can enjoy that feeling from the very start.

[Mafic]

Timeless Isle was just an early test of it I think, mainly to see how people react and what they need to add/remove when it goes full scale in WoD, I imagine it'll be different when it's an entire continent, and personally I thought it was awesome.

Hopefully they'll add more hidden stories and lore to be found around Draenor with it, i'd be very happy with that.

Discover a cave up a mountain with skeletons of a dead family and a note written explaining their demise etc...

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Did you do that in MoP and most of WOTLK? Because that's exactly the same thing.

Similar maybe not the same though.

[Luko]

I'm pretty bad at wording myself Anyway, I'm in the same boat as you. As long as I enjoy this game I'll continue playing it, flying or not. However that doesn't mean that I agree with the decision not to let us fly in the first patch.

Ha, nah you're fine. I was more or less using your post to get a point across to the thread itself, not necessarily coming down on you.

[Yarathir]

Fair enough, I agree it'd probably suck over an entire continent, i've got enough faith though that they'll mix it up and keep it interesting.

Guess we'll have to see

An example of things that would be awesome would be if they hid underwater caves or whatever in Zangar Sea, as well as rare hunter pets or just elites that can drop special gear. Things like that.

[Wildtree]

I personally plan on leveling through battlegrounds to 100 and then qo back to do the quests when flying is enabled again.

Thus bypassing Blizzard's desire for immersion.

Players will always be one step ahead of myopic developers IMO.

You sure you are going to be one step ahead?
The time it'll take you to get from 90 to 100 with BG's is about the same time it takes someone to level 2 or even 3 toons with quests...
Here I thought that by now everyone got the memo already, that leveling through Battlegrounds and Instances was hit very hard by the Nerf hammer, with the release of MoP.

[wych]

Similar maybe not the same though.

There's literally no difference between doing 90-100 in WoD and 85-90 in MoP, except if anything it'll be more convenient as you won't have to deal with a zone like Dread Wastes which is half designed with flying in mind, and you'll have more flight paths

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An example of things that would be awesome would be if they hid underwater caves or whatever in Zangar Sea, as well as rare hunter pets or just elites that can drop special gear. Things like that.

Yeah I really hope they do stuff like that. Zangar should be very interesting since it's not an official "zone" but they talked about being excited by it at Blizzcon from the concept art

[Yarathir]

There's literally no difference between doing 90-100 in WoD and 85-90 in MoP, except if anything it'll be more convenient as you won't have to deal with a zone like Dread Wastes which is half designed with flying in mind, and you'll have more flight paths

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Yeah I really hope they do stuff like that. Zangar should be very interesting since it's not an official "zone" but they talked about being excited by it at Blizzcon from the concept art

Yeah, the concept art looked really cool, and because it's obscure like that (not being an official zone), they could hide a lot of goodies there, and make it like a place where you can freely explore and find cool goodies deep down on the sea floor, like rusty treasure chests with weapons in them. Also would like to see them make some sea creature models for that, because I think the Azeroth creatures would look quite out-of-place there, like Warpstalkers look odd in Kalimdor.

[Mafic]

There's literally no difference between doing 90-100 in WoD and 85-90 in MoP, except if anything it'll be more convenient as you won't have to deal with a zone like Dread Wastes which is half designed with flying in mind, and you'll have more flight paths

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Yeah I really hope they do stuff like that. Zangar should be very interesting since it's not an official "zone" but they talked about being excited by it at Blizzcon from the concept art

There will be differences.

I have done calculations and it may be more efficient to level through instanced PVP than doing quests depending on how large the WoD continent will be. If it is larger than Pandaria then my belief that leveling through instanced PVP being better in terms of time/reward stands true.

We shall see.

P.S. If garrisons offer as much functions as they are advertising there is probably little incentive to go out into the world but that is speculation on my part.

[wych]

Yeah, the concept art looked really cool, and because it's obscure like that (not being an official zone), they could hide a lot of goodies there, and make it like a place where you can freely explore and find cool goodies deep down on the sea floor, like rusty treasure chests with weapons in them. Also would like to see them make some sea creature models for that, because I think the Azeroth creatures would look quite out-of-place there, like Warpstalkers look odd in Kalimdor.

We can only hope, guess it'll come down to time constraints how fleshed out and well done it is. I imagine it'll be one of the last priorities for them

[Kolo]

So what if he flys now? He doesn't say hes not, hes not being a hypocrite, hes welcoming a better solution to travelling.

I myself loved it when ground mount was the only transport (except flight paths), but I still fly now, but I won't go full retard if I lose it, I'd welcome it with open hands. At least the world will feel x10 bigger with only ground mounts. And even better, DANGEROUS.

Dangerous how? They are nerfing CC and burst so the likelihood of stopping a mounted person who isn't afk autorun is slim to none.

[Mafic]

Blizzard has said explicitly that leveling 90-100 will be easier than it was in MoP so leveling through instanced PVP may be better bang for the buck (probably will be nerfed if they catch wind of it though haha).

[Awbee]

It's worrying because the more they try to force players out into the world, the more they seem to punish the players who already do go out into the world.

100% this, exactly as when they removed city portals and Have Group, Will Travel in Cata. It took a lot of fun away for those of us who love traveling and being out in the world, and changed NOTHING for everyone else. Extremely bad design decisions.

For those saying they'll unsub if they get rid of flying mounts I have to ask - Why are you still subbed in the first place? I mean if you're willing to quit over something as insignificant as your means of travel you can't be enjoying it very much. Most of the game is on the ground anyway.

Well I certainly believe that removing/restricting flying will be very good for the game. Maybe insignificant was too strong a word. But I'm certainly not going to quit if flying mounts stay as they are and I don't see why one would quit if they were removed. The majority of the game would play exactly the same.

You two are basically making the argument for me why no flying is a bad idea.

"Most of the game" and "The majority of the game" is apparently raiding, dungeons, pvp, etc for you. Aka queuing. Yes, for people like you no flying would not change a thing. You could still sit around in cities all day and queue, and occasionally take a flight path to a raid entrance.

For people like ME who actively travel around the world all the time, it will take away most of the fun in the game for me. I've explained it countless times before on this forum, the only two reasons I really still play WoW for are
a) my characters, and the roleplaying I do with them
b) the beautiful world of Azeroth, and flying / traveling / enjoying it

"No flying" is a really big hindrance to my enjoyment of b), effectively taking away a HUGE part of the reason why I still play WoW in the first place. So yes, if we can't ever fly in Draenor, I wouldn't buy the expac.

Why is flying mounts so important? Feels like 75% of the time spent on the back of a flying mount is being afk so you don't get killed. What so fun and important about that? Use flight paths if you wanna go to some place, easy peasy.

Again, you're making my own argument for me. People like YOU afk for 75% on a flying mount. People like you will now afk on flight paths. Nothing changes for people like you, you still won't explore the world any more than you do now.

I actively explore the world now, thanks to flying, and have enjoyed doing so for the past 4 years. Why would you want to take that away from players like me who actually enjoy leaving the cities in WoW?

Dipshits that quit because they can't fly on one continent out of 6, we really don't need them anyways. It really hurts your gaming experience to actually know where dungeon and raid entrances are huh? I've yet to read one valid argument for having flying in this expansion.

So much fail. So if I fly on my own mount to a dungeon entrance, that means that I don't know where the dungeon entrance is?
But if I take the flight path there, that means I know where it is?
Full potato.

I do fly around and travel the world in WoW everyday when I log in. Do you?

Your argument is invalid. Goto any capital city and look at all the people idling on a flying mount. What, in this case, did flying do to encourage them to explore outside of the cities?

No, my argument is very valid. I'm saying that most people do not want to leave the city anyways, at all. A minority of players does. I'm part of the minority. Flying is a huge part of why I leave the cities. If flying was removed, even MORE people would gather around in cities only. Just like even MORE people hang out in Sw / Org all the time when city portals were removed in Cata. Do you not remember that?

[Yarathir]

We can only hope, guess it'll come down to time constraints how fleshed out and well done it is. I imagine it'll be one of the last priorities for them

Too true, but comparably, I don't think it'll be -that- much of a pain for them to sprinkle down a few Vash'jir objects, some caves, treasure chests, and all that. Compared to developing a real zone with quests, that is. Though, I'll concede on the unique sea wildlife model point. That'll depend on how much time there'll be left. I do really want to see the fungal whale, though.

[lolzsec]

No, because Tol Barad is a zone centered around PvP. Same as Wintergrasp. Tanaris isn't.

Contested zone means u are flagged if on a PvP server. Its wise to be alert and aware of surroundings when in these zones as it is likely you will encounter some pvp. Simple solution if you don't like PvP, roll normal or pve realm.

[Caliph]

I'm sure blizzard will remember your greatness and miss you dearly.

ah yes they will, because there's 5,000,000 of those since wow's peak. So yeah they're missing a lot,

How'd it make you feel posting such a childish, battery operated retort. Do you feel better?

[Yarathir]

Contested zone means u are flagged if on a PvP server. Its wise to be alert and aware of surroundings when in these zones as it is likely you will encounter some pvp. Simple solution if you don't like PvP, roll normal or pve realm.

I don't play on or care about PvP and PvP servers, so I wouldn't care less. Again, so long as the WPVP obsession doesn't bleed over into normal and RP realms, I'll be more than happy with Blizzard granting you your wish.

[Awbee]

humans are also able to adapt and i think people are blowing this way out of proportion. remember the whining about 'have group will travel'? yeah.

Yeah I remember that, and I still want it back. Its removal painfully affected me and my friends. Did the removal affect you positively in any way? Cause I've never met anyone who was positively affected by its removal. Most people don't care about it, but a small group of people who really used to enjo this feature miss it a lot. So it was a terrible idea to remove it.

[Azaael]

I'm sorta in the boat thinking they'll be scouting out how the playerbase reacts in game to it. I do suspect that yes, if they see a drop, they'll re-implement it(note; I don't think no flying will cause a MASSIVE tumble of subs in and of itself-but I feel that if they see a tumble of subs, they'll want to shore up any potential causes for sub tumble, and since that'll be a change, that will be on the list.)

Really, I have to agree with the post some pages back about how it's not immersion or anything-the world hasn't been immersive in ages(if ever, really, even in the classic days), it's not dangerous(even at it's 'most dangerous' Back In The Day it wasn't that dangerous) in the LEAST, and they'll likely never even bring it close to Vanilla's level of 'danger' anymore(which means it'll stay 'really easy' instead of 'pretty easy.' PvP servers are completely unbalanced for the vast majority of them, and they'll continue to be so(even with server mergers, people are going to go where they want to go, and I suspect a bulk of PvP servers will stay unbalanced like they are now), so at the end of the day-they really aren't gaining anything from keeping flying from an entire expansion. I'm cool with having to get to max level to 'earn' it as a sorta 'badge' or something, but I wouldn't try to couch it in immersion reasons.

Thing is, I can't blame any other MMOs for not adding flying. They saw what it could do to the game. Blizz added it at one point since at the time it sounded like a good idea-but it's one of those things you really can't just take away once you add it. Which is most likely why a lot of games don't want to add it. Some things are tougher to remove and change than others in the game, but for example-the talent trees? Tough, but doable, and the new ones work well. I personally don't see them ever being able to take out, say, LFR, however-even though it's not even that old, it's sorta too much of a big thing with a pretty big portion of the playerbase.

What I think they ought to be doing-instead of trying to put off flying/push it aside resulting in backlash and grumpiness, is trying to work *with* it. Rather than looking at what it takes away from, see what you can add because of it to make it a richer experience. I kinda think when they added it they jumped the gun a bit before they had a really solid plan on how to work with it-so they got kinda stuck and gave up on some ideas rather quickly(like old ideas of air combat and such.)

At the end of the day, I guess they'll see how the people will react, and adjust accordingly. Who knows, maybe they'll be surprised and a vast majority will like it. (Or just not care.) But yeah, I think any losses and they'll put it in quickly just to ensure that wasn't the reason people left.

[Airwaves]

If this really is true I will just quit. I have played wow for 10 years now. The last thing I want to do is ride around on a ground mount. I have better things to do then take 20 mins to ride somewhere a flyer would take me in 2 mins.

And for those that say "oh but it killed world PvP". NO IT FUCKING DID NOT. World PvP died before we even had flying mounts. As soon as they added BGs in vanilla it was the end of world pvp. I don't know why people keep wishing it will come back. It is long buried and taking away flying mounts will not bring it back. The only thing that will bring it back is removing battle grounds. But that is also never going to happen.