Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[urasim]

you have no proof that questing w/o flying will take any amount of time more than it does with flying..

310 > 100. Is it really that hard to understand these numbers?

The speed bonus is just one factor that makes flying faster...

[Deleted]

The flying discussion actually hurt the game a lot, as it splitted its community.

[khalltusk]

The bolded part is completely false, because everyone will have the same efficiency.
It also means what you craft with said materials will be worth more.

You mean your statement is false?

My efficiency compared to now will be less. I could not care less how it compares to other players as I do not sell much stuff on the AH (only the odd crafted item for some cash if that otherwise I farm for my own raid/dungeon consumables etc). My statement still stands as I am comparing my efficiency now to what it would be in WoD. One is less than the other.

[Nayaga]

The flying discussion actually hurt the game a lot, as it splitted its community.

Yea, too bad Blizzard decided to remove an aspect of the game 50% don't want removed (according to Alex).

[Dragoncurry]

So this is actually a good point, good job. It can be a good development item if it is included in the lore.

I think the bad thing is that TI isn't lore-worthy. And furthermore, people like dungeons more than an open world non-flying island. In the end it's being done this way because it is a more inexpensive way to develop content. I can see how open world items have the lure of old school MMOs, but I wonder if the instanced world of WoW (ironically where the only balance has ever been reached) will suffer as a result.

While you do a really good job of discussing the potential, you have to realize that the odds of Blizzard doing that are slim. Because they are working backwards, and have been for quite some time. They used to start with development and tried to get as much in during the time frame allotted to them. Now, they start with a budget and only develop to it. By the time they put all of these neat world items in, it would be easier to just enable flight and put a better story in place.

Look, I get that. But any direction that has the potential for success should be embraced. Otherwise, we will have the same old shit, and as you have said, it's evolved to a point where it is not the same as it was a long time ago, and the changes have not necessarily been for the better. You can either remain here or keep evolving. I choose the latter. Sure, Blizz may miss the mark. But it's better than sitting on something that you believe is already missing on most fronts.

[gamingmuscle]

I now understand why Alex Frasiabi has issues getting his message across.

Your perception of effectiveness is still rooted on the premise of flying.
You need to understand that if no one is flying, your efficiency will be the same as everyone else's, and since the economy is based on supply and demand, the prices on materials and craftables will inevitably account for the fact that X nodes take Y% longer to obtain.

If you consider that the recipes and prices will be balanced around your gathering speed without flying, then no efficiency is lost.
There is only a "perceived" loss, IF you compare content designed for no flying to content designed for flying, which really makes no sense.

Compared to how it is now and how it is believed to be in WoD. It is less efficient, without some tweaking. Comparing gather in WoD to gather in WoD is silly....and meaningless lol. Now if they reduce the number of mats required to produce things that might counter balance the gathering decrease in efficiency. But the decrease is still there. Gather's will produce less. It may not affect Producers if as you say the mats required are balanced around this.

[Sweetpeaz]

Look, I get that. But any direction that has the potential for success should be embraced. Otherwise, we will have the same old shit, and as you have said, it's evolved to a point where it is not the same as it was a long time ago, and the changes have not necessarily been for the better. You can either remain here or keep evolving. I choose the latter. Sure, Blizz may miss the mark. But it's better than sitting on something that you believe is already missing on most fronts.

So it comes to a glass is half full or half empty thing.

The same old shit, generated a 7 million sub number for a game that is 10 years old. You, or they, are operating under the assumption that if they changed from that it would go down. That's possible, but it would happen through normal attrition. Changes like this have the risk of mass losses all at once, and when they reverse course it makes them look inept.

[Dragoncurry]

So it comes to a glass is half full or half empty thing.

The same old shit, generated a 7 million sub number for a game that is 10 years old. You, or they, are operating under the assumption that if they changed from that it would go down. That's possible, but it would happen through normal attrition. Changes like this have the risk of mass losses all at once, and when they reverse course it makes them look inept.

Okay, so make a decision lol.

[Osmeric]

When they had the release of the boosted 90s, they even said then that there would be enough time to get the cloak on them if wanted. They are doing all that they can to keep people doing something, because they know that content gaps are when people leave.

I think the legendary quest chain is actually the opposite of what you're talking about. It was meant to penalize people who skipped out most of the expansion. Done "properly", you were grinding for coins/etc. while you were otherwise playing. But now you have to grind them in obsolete content. If they are talking about it, it's because people are going "meh, not going to bother now", especially since the grinding will be in LFR (gag). I think it's biting them in the butt, frankly. Because the LQC is a de facto attunement to any serious SoO raiding, these people are now excluding themselves from that.

So the problem here isn't that people don't have something to do, it's that they don't think what there is to do is worth doing. This was also the problem with all the dailies back at 5.0. Sure people had a lot of dailies to grind out. They had "stuff to do". But it wasn't sufficiently entertaining for many to be worth doing.

[Dragoncurry]

I think the legendary quest chain is actually the opposite of what you're talking about. It was meant to penalize people who skipped out most of the expansion. Done "properly", you were grinding for coins/etc. while you were otherwise playing. But now you have to grind them in obsolete content. If they are talking about it, it's because people are going "meh, not going to bother now", especially since the grinding will be in LFR (gag). I think it's biting them in the butt, frankly. Because the LQC is a de facto attunement to any serious SoO raiding, these people are now excluding themselves from that.

So the problem here isn't that people don't have something to do, it's that they don't think what there is to do is worth doing. This was also the problem with all the dailies back at 5.0. Sure people had a lot of dailies to grind out. They had "stuff to do". But it wasn't sufficiently entertaining for many to be worth doing.

100% agree. I quit raiding on my alts, otherwise I'd still be playing regularly, SIMPLY because I can't be bothered to do LFR for the cloak, and it will make ur DPS jump from like 160K to like 350K or some shit with the gem.

[Sweetpeaz]

Okay, so make a decision lol.

I would have kept flight, and kept LFR the same. I would remove have removed the daily gates, and weekly caps, and moved to a single in game currency that is earned whether you kill a boss, or complete a raid, a dungeon, or areana or other forms of PVP. This currency would you to purchase any of the armor and weapons that were previously split up among the different vendors.

This would allow people to really play the game how they want. If I was bored with PVE content, I would then do PVP content. I could do both, without trying to head down the progression path for either. Knowing that if I wanted to do both paths it would take me twice as long, but I'm progressing by doing my choice of content, not their prescribed method.

I would enjoy the game more, and thus wouldn't mind if it took longer to get the gear I wanted.

- - - Updated - - -

I think the legendary quest chain is actually the opposite of what you're talking about. It was meant to penalize people who skipped out most of the expansion. Done "properly", you were grinding for coins/etc. while you were otherwise playing. But now you have to grind them in obsolete content. If they are talking about it, it's because people are going "meh, not going to bother now", especially since the grinding will be in LFR (gag). I think it's biting them in the butt, frankly. Because the LQC is a de facto attunement to any serious SoO raiding, these people are now excluding themselves from that.

So the problem here isn't that people don't have something to do, it's that they don't think what there is to do is worth doing. This was also the problem with all the dailies back at 5.0. Sure people had a lot of dailies to grind out. They had "stuff to do". But it wasn't sufficiently entertaining for many to be worth doing.

I think that is correct.

Just because Blizzard said that there would time to do it, doesn't mean that it was going to be compelling. I think they viewed it as if you wanted to change mains, and didn't want to level this was your chance.

Many just viewed it as, now I don't have to level. oooooooh shiney!! and didn't think what it would entail to actually progress.

[Dragoncurry]

I would have kept flight, and kept LFR the same. I would remove have removed the daily gates, and weekly caps, and moved to a single in game currency that is earned whether you kill a boss, or complete a raid, a dungeon, or areana or other forms of PVP. This currency would you to purchase any of the armor and weapons that were previously split up among the different vendors.

This would allow people to really play the game how they want. If I was bored with PVE content, I would then do PVP content. I could do both, without trying to head down the progression path for either. Knowing that if I wanted to do both paths it would take me twice as long, but I'm progressing by doing my choice of content, not their prescribed method.

I would enjoy the game more, and thus wouldn't mind if it took longer to get the gear I wanted.

You know what I would've done? I would've made flying a much more integral part of the game, designed the world better to include flying mounts, and had some sort of demount feature for flying combat, or a feature where someone can attack your flying mount in game. But we don't own the game, so we gotta go with the next best thing.

I would also remove gates other than weekly lockouts, and bring back some form of attunements and make it so 5 man dungeons were like flex raids for more casual players and remove LFR as a result. But again, we don't own the game.

[Sweetpeaz]

You know what I would've done? I would've made flying a much more integral part of the game, designed the world better to include flying mounts, and had some sort of demount feature for flying combat, or a feature where someone can attack your flying mount in game. But we don't own the game, so we gotta go with the next best thing.

I would also remove gates other than weekly lockouts, and bring back some form of attunements and make it so 5 man dungeons were like flex raids for more casual players and remove LFR as a result. But again, we don't own the game.

But they could do that if they wanted to.

As mad as I am about these changes, I realize that Blizzard can make good games, they can make great games. But under their current financial model, I think they know and are banking on, that the average player doesn't care and will put up with any arduous task they are given.

That is why I unsubbed. I realize that I'm only one sub. But this is a matter of principle for me. Most of the time where there is outrage on the forums it ends up being nothing because people just put up with it. There are a few times when I think the outrage is truly justified.

CRZ was a huge one. And in the end we were ignored and told that the leveling experience was so important that we needed to make the world feel more populated. We know now that you can bypass the entire experience for the right price. What that means is that they will say anything they want to justify their financial position. CRZ was a cost savings and nothing else. They knew people would quit, but they knew the money saved was more than their average length of subscriber.

I hated CRZ but I never quit. And then it dawned on me that I was just 'noise' to them, because my outrage didn't result in any bottom line difference. So....now it is different.

[Dragoncurry]

But they could do that if they wanted to.

As mad as I am about these changes, I realize that Blizzard can make good games, they can make great games. But under their current financial model, I think they know and are banking on, that the average player doesn't care and will put up with any arduous task they are given.

That is why I unsubbed. I realize that I'm only one sub. But this is a matter of principle for me. Most of the time where there is outrage on the forums it ends up being nothing because people just put up with it. There are a few times when I think the outrage is truly justified.

CRZ was a huge one. And in the end we were ignored and told that the leveling experience was so important that we needed to make the world feel more populated. We know now that you can bypass the entire experience for the right price. What that means is that they will say anything they want to justify their financial position. CRZ was a cost savings and nothing else. They knew people would quit, but they knew the money saved was more than their average length of subscriber.

I hated CRZ but I never quit. And then it dawned on me that I was just 'noise' to them, because my outrage didn't result in any bottom line difference. So....now it is different.

What you have is something called perception bias. You're NOT the only sub haha. And your ideas and even my ideas are not the center of the world for Blizzard, even though we would like them to be.

[Ordinator]

310 > 100. Is it really that hard to understand these numbers?

The speed bonus is just one factor that makes flying faster...

If that's the only thing you're brain can comprehend then you have no reason being here.

Despite how fast one mount is compared to another, quest grinding, mat farming, etc etc, can be designed to be just as quick with ground mounts. (god i feel stupid having to explain this). Blue posts have even stated this fact many many times. Wake up and quit playing stupid.

[Dragoncurry]

If that's the only thing you're brain can comprehend then you have no reason being here.

Despite how fast one mount is compared to another, quest grinding, mat farming, etc etc, can be designed to be just as quick with ground mounts. (god i feel stupid having to explain this). Blue posts have even stated this fact many many times. Wake up and quit playing stupid.

As this guy has proven throughout countless threads, his posts are backed up by solid facts and statistics that you can find in Urasim's Encyclopedia of Opinionated Facts and Conjectures.

[bryroo]

The flying discussion actually hurt the game a lot, as it splitted its community.

The players should be attacking Blizzard instead of each other.

If Blizzard really gave that much of a rat's ass they'd find a way to make it a choice like flight restricted servers or something.

If nothing else it's a great way to distract the people still playing from the fact they're going to be running around Timeless Isle for over a year.

[Sweetpeaz]

What you have is something called perception bias. You're NOT the only sub haha. And your ideas and even my ideas are not the center of the world for Blizzard, even though we would like them to be.

I don't know if I have that or not. I can be objective about this stuff. I know why Blizzard does what they do, I just think that their messaging is horrible. I for sure would do a good number of things that they have done. If CRZ is the huge cash saver that it is, by reducing energy, CPU cycles and bandwidth at datacenters (which are traditionally viewed as fixed costs) I would do that same thing they did.

But I would have told people, we are doing this to reduce costs so we can make better content in a shorter timeline for the player. Not give them some bullshit how we were going to benefit from it.

[Dragoncurry]

I don't know if I have that or not. I can be objective about this stuff. I know why Blizzard does what they do, I just think that their messaging is horrible. I for sure would do a good number of things that they have done. If CRZ is the huge cash saver that it is, by reducing energy, CPU cycles and bandwidth at datacenters (which are traditionally viewed as fixed costs) I would do that same thing they did.

But I would have told people, we are doing this to reduce costs so we can make better content in a shorter timeline for the player. Not give them some bullshit how we were going to benefit from it.

But we DID benefit from it. To an extent.

[Sweetpeaz]

But we DID benefit from it. To an extent.

Interesting.

How? Until VR was implemented I think their bottom line benefited. And because you can bypass leveling now, it seems that their goal was met. unless I am missing something (which is possible). How do you think we saw a benefit?